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Old September 16th, 2021, 08:37 PM   #1
Bob KellyIII
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Cold Blooded Ninja ?

every sense I got this bike I have read in several places that the Ninja takes a long time to warm up... the gal I bought this bike from said it is really cold blooded and takes 15 to 20 minutes to warm up ! and I thought yah sure !
.... but this morning I started the bike and it was back to it's old trick of running on one cylinder and Yes it was very Nippy early this morning here!...
so I left the choke on and let it warm up a bit at the 3,000 rpm that the choke has always made it speed up to, which I don't like at all.... (is that normal ?)
anyway after about 3 or 4 minutes I turned it off and let it set , my intension was to warm it up and put the sta-ble stuff in the gas tank and then take it for a ride.... I put about 1/4 the bottle in there and fired it up again and by then it was warmer by quite a bit, and it ran on both cylinders with no problems
later about 3 hrs later I fired it up again and it ran perfect....
.... so is it just my bike that is messed up with the chokes some how or are they all really cold blooded machines ? I'm thinking that the enrichers may not be actuating correctly so I may have to take the carbs off this winter when there is snow on the ground and nothing to do !
...
I am sure both of the dookickies in the choke slide lever thing are actuating and they look like they are both moving the same amount ( the enrichers)
but that doesn't mean their passage ways are good and clear, because when I cleaned the carbs I did not take the choke's apart ( yes I've already Kicked myself for that !...but I wanted to ride it !!!!) and I found the problem the main jet was completely plugged ! so I took a gamble and just threw them back together and fired it up....
....
it's looking more and more like I need to pull the carbs off that thing and give it a good going over !
....
but let me ask You is your Ninja cold blooded ? does it take a long time to warm up ? are they all like that, or perhaps someone took the thermostat out of this thing ! which you should never do !
.....
Bob..........
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Old September 17th, 2021, 05:18 AM   #2
Triple Jim
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It's normal for the enricher to speed up the engine, since it opens valves to add fuel and some additional air into the engine.

Two things have made my 250 take a long time to warm up in the past:

1. The valves were out of adjustment and not fully closing until the engine warmed up.
2. The carbs were not clean.

When those problems were corrected it needed the enricher for starting and maybe one minute of running at most, even in cold weather.

Sta-Bil will not help clean carburetors at all. It just keeps gasoline from going bad as fast as it would without Sta-Bil. It's the additives with PEA like Techron that can actually do a small amount of cleaning. I wouldn't expect them to open a badly clogged passage though.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 09:15 AM   #3
Bob KellyIII
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Ahh ! thanks Jim Much appreciated !
.... Bob....
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Old September 17th, 2021, 03:56 PM   #4
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Shouldn't be more than a minute on the choke. Our race Ninja's spend about 1 minute on the choke, reducing how far the choke is open as time passes to keep revs around 3000 RPM. If we leave the choke fully open, they'll hit 4K+ RPM as they warm up. So ya, that's normal. That's why the lever is adjustable!

If you need more choke, that means things are lean. As previously stated, dirty carbs, not jetted correctly or tight valves. Valve adjustments suck though, shim under bucket on post gen. Miss the pre-gen valves that had actual adjusters. :/

If the main jets were plugged, odds are good the passageways still have varnish in them. Time for a strip and dip and a good round of air blasting. Spray carb cleaner is rather useless.......
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Old September 17th, 2021, 05:19 PM   #5
Bob KellyIII
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Ok cool ! thanks for the replies guys !!!
what I usually do is choke on full for about 30 seconds when it starts climbing toward 3k RPM
and then I back it off till it idles around 2k rpm....
after about a minute I'll shut the choke all the way off and see if it'll take throttle, usually it will stumble when I crack the throttle so I give it a bit of choke and wait a bit more.....
after another minute I'll do the same again and it usually will take throttle without stumbling and she's good to go...
by then I can feel the heat rising from the engine so I know it should be warm enough.
But on cold days i have to do that 1 minute thing about 3 to 5 times before it won't stumble.
it's not a start it let it idle for a minute and take off thing, as it will stumble if I do that.
( flat spot when opening the throttle) ...but it should be I can tell by the way the bike behaves that the carbs must be dirty !
....but it runs the way it is right now and winter is on the way... so there will be plenty of time to pull the carbs off when it's too cold to ride, as I am retired, and I don't ride in the cold !... I froze my tokus off when I was younger, I don't have to do that now ! LOL
....
later !
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Old September 19th, 2021, 01:22 PM   #6
Bob KellyIII
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does anyone Know if the Pre-gen adjustable valve adjusters will just bolt on to the Post Gen machines ?
has anyone ever tried to do that ?
perhaps replace the rockers and the cover and your good to go ? it could be THAT simple ....and for an old timer like me I'd love that !
......
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Old September 19th, 2021, 05:11 PM   #7
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no way, heads are completely different. Notice that cams sit directly over cams on new-gen design.

New-gen bucket & shims are much more durable. Adjust it once very 20k-miles and forget about it. Pregen really need theirs adjusted very 7.5k-miles. Not sure how Toyota does it, but their bucket & shim valvetrain can go 200k-miles between adjustments.
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Old September 19th, 2021, 05:24 PM   #8
Bob KellyIII
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Wow... that is definitely worth the hassle then !
thanks for the info. !!!
I haven't checked mine yet, but it's only got 5k miles on it, so it don't need it yet either.
theirs no tappit noise so I know their not too loose ! LOL
I've been readying the plywood for the deck on my little trailer so I can actually USE the trailer ! ... I decided to paint it then put it on as the last plywood deck I put on it I didn't and it only lasted about 10 years... this one I hope to get 20 years out of it ! LOL
when that's complete I will have a way to Haul the bikes again...so that's a good thing !
....
so if a person wanted to put the Old style tappets on the post gen engine they would have to replace the heads too ? do they fit on the post gen bikes ?
or are the studs and case different as well ? any idea ?
.....
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Old September 19th, 2021, 07:33 PM   #9
Triple Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
Wow... that is definitely worth the hassle then !
thanks for the info. !!!

...

so if a person wanted to put the Old style tappets on the post gen engine they would have to replace the heads too ?
Fickel?
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Old September 20th, 2021, 04:45 AM   #10
Bob KellyIII
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No just looking for answers to the question.... usually the top end can be exchanged on engines, but not always and I'd like to know if the older engines can swap parts with the newer ones
....
case in point, on my honda 305 the entire top end could be taken off and the 250 cc top end put on in it's place, my cousin did that to his 305 and got extreme gas mileage, compared to my 305.
swapping parts in the old days was done mainly because you could not find or afford the OEM part.
it would be nice to know what parts can be substituted on the 2012 Ninja, just for reference !
...
Bob......
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Old September 20th, 2021, 07:45 AM   #11
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How much choke do you typically have to use to get the bike started when cold? I find I just use a tiny bit to get the engine fired up, then it chugs along warming up slowly for a minute or two. I can go off choke after 30 seconds without the engine dying. Keep in mind, I'm down south and it's rarely under 70 degrees when I start mine. I hope I need more choke this Winter, it seems like an almost useless feature at this point.
I think I mentioned this before, but you need a first-gen You keep mentioning things you would like to change about the 250r and they're things the 250f had to begin with.
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