My pod filter got wet

[subxero]

So it has been raining here for past 2 days and last night it poured for a few hours straight.

My bike is under a cover but it is not 100% water proof.
Went to ride my bike to work this morning and it would not start. after a few minutes I got the bike to start but just turned it back off as i knew the filter must have been soaked and it was definitely a bit moist.

Not sure how it got so wet with the cover, figured that would keep most water off of it on top if it's placement on the bike.

I pulled the side panels off the bike and parked it in the sun to dry it out today while i'm at work. Figure i will go home start it and see what she sounds like and go from there.

IF this turns out to be a reoccurring problem i will have to either come up with a solution or the pod filters must go.

[Jiggles]

Reason #7 why pod filters suck

[subxero]

It hadn't been a problem, i ride in the rain all the time and sometimes let the bike out in the rain without the cover. The other day i was at the gym and it started raining so my bike was in the rain for a little bit then i rode it home and i could tell the filter was wet as the bike was not running quite right but it wasn't terrible and that was the first time i noticed any problems.

So this is the second time i have noticed the moisture problem. I still can't figure out how it got so wet with the cover on. It was raining really hard though

[dailowill]

I wonder if a air filter wrap would've made a difference...

[Asspire]

i ride in the rain all the time and have not had a problem yet. is the rear under tail still attached properly??

[psych0hans]

[alex.s]

what is the point of pod filters

[CycleCam303]

To look cool while having less performance?

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Asspire

i ride in the rain all the time and have not had a problem yet. is the rear under tail still attached properly??

yeah, only thing removed is the airbox.

[DaBlue1]

Your problem is really about the level of humidity in and around your bike for the last few days. When the percentage of humidity in the air increases, the engine draws in a lower percentage of oxygen during each revolution because the water molecules (humidity) take the place of oxygen molecules in a given volume of air. High humidity will make the air-fuel mixture richer, so if you've got a bike that is already rich, a filter that will absorb moisture from the surrounding air and a fuel tank that can form condensation based on temp and humidity changes, you'll have a problem starting and running the engine until things have had a chance to dry out a little.

Don't forget to factor in a drop in temp too, both ambient temp and the temperature of the fuel. Fuel temps also drop when flowing past the venturi in the carbs about 20-30 degrees. All of this can affect how your bike runs.

It's a whole different story if the bike only set a few hours in the rain or you were already riding and got caught in it.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

To sound gay while having less performance?

Fxt

[subxero]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Your problem is really about the level of humidity in and around your bike for the last few days. When the percentage of humidity in the air increases, the engine draws in a lower percentage of oxygen during each revolution because the water molecules (humidity) take the place of oxygen molecules in a given volume of air. High humidity will make the air-fuel mixture richer, so if you've got a bike that is already rich, a filter that will absorb moisture from the surrounding air and a fuel tank that can form condensation based on temp and humidity changes, you'll have a problem starting and running the engine until things have had a chance to dry out a little.

Don't forget to factor in a drop in temp too, both ambient temp and the temperature of the fuel. Fuel temps also drop when flowing past the venturi in the carbs about 20-30 degrees. All of this can affect how your bike runs.

It's a whole different story if the bike only set a few hours in the rain or you were already riding and got caught in it.

That all makes perfect sense

[walty87]

i had an open pod filter on my yamaha zuma 125 scooter. I once got caught in the rain and the bike started bogging down while losing power. Luckily I was near a gas station and coasted in. Actually turned out to be a good experience because there was this nice older gentleman on a harley chilling under the shelter of the gas station. We had a nice convo and had a coffee while the rain moved on.

Needless to say I did go back to the ugly big box of an air fliter

[lgk]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

made it through two nor-easters with the watercraft cover over the pods.

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by alex.s

what is the point of pod filters

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

To look cool while having less performance?

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Fxt

Mine looks cool, sounds great, and increased performance by a (relatively) large margin, properly jetted.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jman511115

Mine looks cool, sounds great, and increased performance by a (relatively) large margin, properly jetted.

a properly tuned airbox will produce more power in a wider range than pod filters.

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by alex.s

a properly tuned airbox will produce more power in a wider range than pod filters.

I disagree. My bike was properly tuned on the air box/no snorkel, when I switched to the pod filter and tuned for it the difference was very noticeable. Low end stayed about the same, after 6000 rpm it was no contest.

[alex.s]

you wanna tell the motogp guys that?

[jman511115]

I have no idea what the motogp guys run and I really don't care, you asked a question and I answered. If you already "knew" the answer, why ask? I have personal experience with both and I know that the open filter works better.

[alex.s]

sometimes a question can be a statement.

you say you know that an open pod filter works better... except for things like... running in the rain/damp... or low end power loss caused by a lack of vacuum through the carbs. also the fact that numerous dyno tests have shown time and time again that a proper air box is better than pod filters. there is a science to intake design. its not simply "get as much air in as easily as possible" there is a huge amount of detail work in intake and exhaust sizes and lengths. one degree angle or a few mm length can make massive differences. my point about motogp was... they go for what will give you the most power. when was the last time you saw pod filters on a real pro performance engine? the 50s? its cool that you experimented with both and you personally got your best results with pod filters. that doesn't mean its the best result you could get.


but those stupid motorcycle factories, i'm sure they don't know what they are talking about. you are probably right about pod filters being better.

[jman511115]

Mmhmm.

[dino74]

Lol @ comparing Ninja 250 design considerations to Motogp.

What do all these Motogp bike have in common?








They are all using a ram-air intake. I'm not an expert but I think its easier to ram air into a box design than it is to ram air into pods.

The Ninja 250 airbox designers needs to think about MPG, emissions, noise, weather, etc.

With an aftermarket exhaust, I can't see how a tuned stock airbox with snorkel can beat a tuned pods. The pods are going to drawing more air/fuel than the airbox.

[lgk]

I like the large surface area and easy access of the pods.
But i like the intake length and filtration of the box.

I havent had any free time to test if the pods are better with the intake runner lengthened.
But i suspect it'll net a little more mid range power.

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by alex.s

sometimes a question can be a statement.

you say you know that an open pod filter works better... except for things like... running in the rain/damp... or low end power loss caused by a lack of vacuum through the carbs. also the fact that numerous dyno tests have shown time and time again that a proper air box is better than pod filters. there is a science to intake design. its not simply "get as much air in as easily as possible" there is a huge amount of detail work in intake and exhaust sizes and lengths. one degree angle or a few mm length can make massive differences. my point about motogp was... they go for what will give you the most power. when was the last time you saw pod filters on a real pro performance engine? the 50s? its cool that you experimented with both and you personally got your best results with pod filters. that doesn't mean its the best result you could get.


but those stupid motorcycle factories, i'm sure they don't know what they are talking about. you are probably right about pod filters being better.

Yes, works better. Across all weather conditions, temperatures, and rpm ranges. I've ridden this bike down to sub freezing temperatures, in rainstorms, 95 degree days when the average engine temperature was over 200 degrees, and never a hiccup. More power across the rpm range, especially up top. No problems except for a longer warmup in extremely cold weather.

Those stupid motorcycle factories compromise on everything. Noise, power, emissions, laws, reliability, fuel mileage, idiot proofing, etc are all concerns that they have to balance. Judging by the way our stock ninjas perform, they don't do a great job either. I'm concerned about power and reliability, and that's it. My bike is more powerful (lol) and more reliable than stock, or jetted with the air box. It works better.

Edit: Please link me to these dyno tests that show an air box is better than pod filters on our ninjettes. By "is better" I'll assume you mean "makes more power".

Originally Posted by alex.s

a properly tuned airbox will produce more power in a wider range than pod filters.

[Asspire]

Originally Posted by alex.s

a properly tuned airbox ....

tell me moar, been wanting to switch back, but the thought of working on carbs with that thing in there haunts me, I definitely won't miss the noise the pods make though.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by jman511115

.... Please link me to these dyno tests that show an air box is better than pod filters on our ninjettes. By "is better" I'll assume you mean "makes more power".

Just a little info to read.

Motorcycle Carburetor Theory 101
http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/carbs101.pdf

Resonant Airboxes: Theory and Applications

Pipe Jetting (A Must Read)
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/mot...s-jetting.html


http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102408

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63914

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...70&postcount=1

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33922

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88469

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13214

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116101

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63914

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=216918

http://www.newninja.com/forums/f98/f...-run-3884.html

[dino74]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Just a little info to read.
<snip>

How does the Clean Air System and crank case breather effect Resonant features of the airbox?

I'm not saying pods are always better, just the airbox isn't always designed for power.

When I click on "250R Race '08-12" at Area P's website, it recommends using pods.
http://areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust.php

Kawa recommends removing the snorkel and the top of the airbox for KLX250H (#5) as "Additional Considerations for Competition"
http://www.advrider.com/forums/attac...1&d=1269389173

[choneofakind]

I'm not here to argue, but I have a little input. I have an aftermarket EFI setup that allows me to take data from the bike, log it, and adjust fueling. I started out with a pod filter to give myself extra space, got annoyed with how loud it was, and switched back to the air box.

after looking at my temp data during rides, I can assure you that the air box makes for much more consistent incoming air temps. This alone will make for more consistent fueling. The pod sucks in hot air from right behind the engine. Your intake temp will vary based on how long you've been sitting at a stop-light, how much of a breeze there is, how fast you're moving, etc. I can assume (since I've never run pod+carbs) that this would make tuning your idle mix screws rather difficult.

I can also assure you that it more consistently pulls harder with the air box+EFI than it ever did for me with the pod filter+EFI. I don't know any of the science behind mixing fuel and air, but I know that I've had very good results with the air box and fuel injection. Maybe carbs are a different story. idk.

[subxero]

From article i posted in new gen tech about a land speed build.

Chris Hill at Performance Psycle in Knoxville, Tennessee was picked for the engine building and general bike prep. Hill has built many bikes for the AMA Dragbike series, including the 2007 National Champion in the ultra-competitive 1000cc SuperSport class, so we were confident that he would get the job done.

The first thing Chris did was to pull the stock airbox and replace it with: nothing. No pods, no screens--nothing but the Dynojet re-jetted carbs sucking as much air as possible (don't try this on your streetbike, though).

Read more: http://www.sportrider.com/features/1...#ixzz2WCMtUSwz

All that being said my feelings on the pod filter is that you can tune the bike to run better at high RPMS deep in the throttle but the everyday usefulness and practicality suffers especially around town and even cruising which is done generally with the throttle cracked less than half way.

JMO but will hopefully have some paper work for the bike in the next few weeks if i get a chance to go to the dyno.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by jman511115

I disagree. My bike was properly tuned on the air box/no snorkel, when I switched to the pod filter and tuned for it the difference was very noticeable. Low end stayed about the same, after 6000 rpm it was no contest.

Let's see some dyno charts of your difference

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by dino74

How does the Clean Air System and crank case breather effect Resonant features of the airbox?

It doesn't. It is used to help pass EPA requirements. It adds a tiny amount of fresh air to the exhaust manifold so the exhaust gas does not appear to be to rich and contain too many contaminants. The system is designed to clean up the exhaust gases. Sort of a way to trick the system.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by dino74

....I'm not saying pods are always better, just the airbox isn't always designed for power.

When I click on "250R Race '08-12" at Area P's website, it recommends using pods.
http://areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust.php

Kawa recommends removing the snorkel and the top of the airbox for KLX250H (#5) as "Additional Considerations for Competition"
http://www.advrider.com/forums/attac...1&d=1269389173

Keep in mind the difference in purpose. Every day rider vs race bike.

The avg daily rider doesn't ride around all day every day @ 11k plus rpms, where the race bike can pend the majority of it short running time well above 11k.

I don't get caught up in the peak HP hype on the Ninja 250. It's a little deceptive. What do I mean? Most dyno runs will show you peak HP which is usually in 4th or 5th gear. If you look at the dyno chart real close a stock / slightly modified Ninja 250 (w/airbox) can make the same HP as a fully exhausted Ninja 250 up until about 10.5k rpms. The difference is the fully exhausted/jetted/podded 250 gets to that specific HP several hundred rpms faster. The slight difference in HP....really not all that impressive IMO.

Here's another point. Even though you may gain a bit more HP (say with pods), it's not worth if you don't take advantage of it with a good gear ratio.. Let's say you max out your rpms with stock gearing (14/45) at 12k rpms in 6th gear, your max speed will be 97.4 mph. A properly ridden bike with 15/41 will hit 98 mph @ 11.5k rpms in 5th gear.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

I don't get caught up in the peak HP hype on the Ninja 250. It's a little deceptive. What do I mean? Most dyno runs will show you peak HP which is usually in 4th or 5th gear. If you look at the dyno chart real close a stock / slightly modified Ninja 250 (w/airbox) can make the same HP as a fully exhausted Ninja 250 up until about 10.5k rpms. The difference is the fully exhausted/jetted/podded 250 gets to that specific HP several hundred rpms faster. The slight difference in HP....really not all that impressive IMO.

Not quite. Specifically in my dynos, my piped and podded dyno has a 10-20% gain throughout the entire rpm range over the stock, and at peak (13k) it has a 50% increase in hp. If I didn't have these ****** ass pod filters then it would be even more significant.

If you haven't ridden a stock vs modded ninjette its a major difference, even under 10k

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

To look cool while having less performance?

Slight increase in hp and makes getting to the carbs way easier.

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by alex.s

a properly tuned airbox will produce more power in a wider range than pod filters.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Let's see some dyno charts of your difference

If I had ever bothered with dyno charts, I'd have posted them already.

[Jiggles]

Does anyone have any proof that a pod filter change and jetting without changing the exhaust increase hp?

No!? No one!?

Astounding...

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by agentbad

and makes getting to the carbs way easier.

So dose cutting the battery box.

[Jiggles]

It's not that pods make it easier to get to the carbs, they make it easier to reinstall the carbs on the bike if you take them off.

If you've ever tried putting the carbs back in with the airbox on you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Solunatic]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's not that pods make it easier to get to the carbs, they make it easier to reinstall the carbs on the bike if you take them off.

If you've ever tried putting the carbs back in with the airbox on you know exactly what I'm talking about.

No kidding. Even with the battery box cut on my '90 the carb boots were so stiff that after two hours, with my roomate helping me, I just left it unattached to the airbox, rode it to the shop and slipped the tech 25 bucks to put them on. He had that grin like he was getting 25 for basically nothing... Took him and another guy just under a half hour, and they still aren't as "on" as i'd like.

This is the only reason I'd go to pods. My '07 is much easier but still results in thrown tools.

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Does anyone have any proof that a pod filter change and jetting without changing the exhaust increase hp?

No!? No one!?

Astounding...

Any proof that they sound gay and perform worse than a comparably equipped bike with a stock air box? No? Didn't think so...