July 16th, 2018, 04:00 PM | #1 |
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Ninja 250R vs. 300 vs. 400 at Thunderhill East
Did a quick comparison on these three bikes in stock form as provided by Feel Like A Pro track-bike rentals. Same tyres were used on all bikes. I selected same track, Thunderhill East (3-mile) and picked same rider in races in same month, 1-year apart.:
Ninja 250R = 2:30-2:33 Ninja 300 = 2:23-2:26 Ninja 400 = 2:13-2:18 Apparently 400 is significantly faster than 300 is over 250R. However, these times spanned 3-years, so I suspect lot of difference is also due to rider improving their skill as well. Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; July 18th, 2018 at 04:26 PM. Reason: corrected 400 times |
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July 16th, 2018, 06:49 PM | #2 |
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The 400 has a notable torque increase down low compared to the 300. It's not just N300 * 4/3. Somewhere around 7K it holds an approx 55% power advantage. Around 7700 it eclipses the N300's peak power.
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July 16th, 2018, 07:28 PM | #3 |
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Innnnteresting.... Thanks for that!
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July 16th, 2018, 07:56 PM | #4 |
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Great info!
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July 17th, 2018, 08:45 AM | #5 |
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Unless it was same rider and same tires on the same day I wouldn't put much value in that data.
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July 17th, 2018, 09:20 AM | #6 |
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All it says is with same rider, each later bike is faster than previous. Note wide variations in times of each bike. This is due to different weather conditions, tyres, rider’s performance, phase of moon, etc. All variables that affect lap-times. Plot all times and compare peak of bell curve. I bet for most people, they would be faster than 250R on 300 and faster yet on 400.
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July 17th, 2018, 01:21 PM | #7 |
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What is the "usual" lap time around THill on a small bike? At least from the AFM race results, it seems like the 300 is capable of running a 2:04-2:12 for racers (from latest AFM results there).
I would agree that the 400 should be a bit faster than the 300, but I would expect it to be about 3 seconds or so for the same rider on the same day. |
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July 17th, 2018, 01:25 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org sage
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Let me put it another way:
It is obvious that the 300 has the potential to be faster than the 250 and the 400 to be faster than the 300. The data above is useless in determining how they really compare. It's worse than useless because it is misleading. |
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July 17th, 2018, 07:17 PM | #9 | |||
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Quote:
1. Jumping to conclusions and assumed that past-performance data is being used as predictor of future results. Note that data presented is only past historical data. It's was recorded by AMB/MyLaps transponders on X-date ridden by Y-rider in Z-race. And Z2 race same month one year later on 300 and Z3 race 2 years later on 400. Kaput, done! It's actual facts in reality and nothing can change that. It's like me saying: Quote:
Quote:
2. Assuming that I made same mistake by inferring that data meant something else. Note I did not say you or anyone else will be getting those times or those spreads between models. All I presented was actual times achieved at actual track used by same rider year after year. That's all, anything extra, you brought into this. |
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July 17th, 2018, 07:48 PM | #10 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
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Quote:
Let me make it simpler for you: It's worthless information. |
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July 17th, 2018, 07:51 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
For example, Dave Moss used to dominate 250-Superbike, getting 2:02 times on his CBR250RR. Guy's a monster! Doing all his laps within 1/4-sec of each other. But we don't know what kind of mods he's done because rules only require frame & engine match, that's it. Or Marc Edwards, MotoAmerica hotshot, has gotten 2:01 times on R3, which should be stock in order to drop down into 250-Superbike. But again, we don't know exactly how "stock" his bike was for those races. His R3 is now slower since it has to conform to 300WSS rules. That's why I went with only stock bikes provided by Feel Like A Pro, to rule out all mods. They also use same Pirelli Supercorsa/Rosso-II tyres on all their bikes, further equalizing variables. Finally I picked same rider doing races in same month year after year. This rider is only interested in drive-up-and-race scenarios, leaving all maintenance to FLAP. So there's no monkeying with physical aspects of bike that we don't know about. Since FLAP rents bikes to competing racers, they do darn good job of making sure all their bikes are very equal in stock performance. |
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July 17th, 2018, 07:53 PM | #12 |
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Again, you're jumping to conclusions and assuming that everyone else makes same inferences as you. It's obvious from other's posting that it's not worthless to them. Some people get value out of knowning facts like when sun came up or what Mary had for dinner. Or what kind of times same rider got on three different bikes.
If you don't like it or find it worthless, that's fine, but that doesn't change facts or that those things did happen. You can't change history. In end, all that matters is what stopwatch says. No arguing around fact that someone beat you by 1.3421 seconds. |
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July 17th, 2018, 09:32 PM | #13 |
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sorry tgold, it's not worthless. this is very interesting.
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July 18th, 2018, 04:46 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
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OK then, Here's a fact: I beat a Formula 450 bike, an Aprilia SXV450, an FZR400, and a TZ250 in the last race I was in on my 300 Ninja, yet I got beat by a guy on an R3. That says exactly zero about the potential of any those bikes.
I deal with measurements, data, and "facts" every day and my job is to look at that information evaluate how it was obtained and decide how relevant it is so that I can make decisions based on it. You are the one making inferences that the 400 Ninja is faster than the 300 which is faster than the 250. Well no s**t! The data you are using is full of known and unknown variables that influence the laptimes. It's worthless. |
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July 18th, 2018, 08:27 AM | #15 |
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What if YOU were riding the Formula 450 bike, Aprilia SXV450, FZR400, TZ250 and R3 yourself?
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July 18th, 2018, 09:37 AM | #16 |
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Ah... that's sticky point. I'm going to look for someone with both 300 and 400. Maybe FLAP will let me ride them alternately for one rental fee...
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July 19th, 2018, 12:27 PM | #17 |
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Yup the bigger the number the more vroom sometimes
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