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Old June 18th, 2016, 06:28 PM   #41
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Ghostt's 30's, under wet testing revealed high fuel levels, LH carb +5mm
RH carb ran away.
The viton face of the RH float valve was visually distorted.
The pilot orings were disintegrated.
However, all circuits, jets were clear

In other words...they did require service attention even though the bike was running ok. I think his slightly less than optimum mileage was the indicator.

Split, sodablasted, heated ultrasonic treated, all consumables replaced.
All circuits confirmed clear, working fuel levels recalibrated, throttle plates synched, slide action tested and wet tested.

These carbs should regain their excellent fuel consumption...I'm very interested in fuelly reports after a tank or 2 and Ghostt's (reverse) performance comparison to the 32's in the near future.

Note before swap 30's...49MPG
After swap 32's returned 58 and 55 MPG on 2 tanks....a respectable increase.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 09:11 PM   #42
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If Ghost would try, I'm also interested in what would happen if the carb boots were shaped to 30mm on the head and 32mm on the carbs for more optimum flow.

This would likely be a test worth trying after he test out the refurbished cvk30s.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 07:34 AM   #43
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So now we need the 32 -> 30 report lol. But in all seriousness, goes to show how inspecting and maintaining your carbs is vital.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 07:45 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy View Post
If Ghost would try, I'm also interested in what would happen if the carb boots were shaped to 30mm on the head and 32mm on the carbs for more optimum flow.

This would likely be a test worth trying after he test out the refurbished cvk30s.
Please explain further, are you referring to the I.D. of the boots? To the head? Airbox?
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:37 AM   #45
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Please explain further, are you referring to the I.D. of the boots? To the head? Airbox?
The carb boots that connect the stock carbs to the head have a smooth 32mm bore for a smooth airflow. The head has a 32mm ID, stock carbs have 32mm ID, but the new carbs have a 32mm ID. I'd imagine if you taper bored the boots to mount flush on the carbs and the head it would preform better.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:48 AM   #46
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As far as I'm aware of the O.D. of both the 32, & 30 is the same, as far as mounting goes.

The actual difference is the I.D. of the bore/throat of the carburetor itself, boots are the same, as far as fitment.

I will take measurements when I get mine back, but if you look at the photos, you can see what I'm talking about.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:50 AM   #47
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:50 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
As far as I'm aware of the O.D. of both the 32, & 30 is the same, as far as mounting goes.

The actual difference is the I.D. of the bore/throat of the carburetor itself, boots are the same, as far as fitment.

I will take measurements when I get mine back, but if you look at the photos, you can see what I'm talking about.
OMG sorry, I had a brain fart, yeah I Meant ID. The ID of the stock carbs head and boots are all 30mm, the ID of the new carbs are 32mm.

No idea why I was thinking OD, that's all the same.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:53 AM   #49
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I think you were thinking of porting.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 04:19 PM   #50
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I think you were thinking of porting.
Not porting the head. Leave the head alone.

Pretty much porting the carb boots, but I wouldn't call it porting, because its not a port.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 04:30 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Not porting the head. Leave the head alone.

Pretty much porting the carb boots, but I wouldn't call it porting, because its not a port.
maybe he mean , the carburetor may have a different size venturi inside , but the throttle body is not the same diameter or that end that goes to the engine side
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Old June 20th, 2016, 04:35 PM   #52
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Third fill up, this was Shell 87.

So that makes 3 tanks, with an increase in MPG. Now I'm curious about my 30s when I get them back on, we shall see.

Other than that no negative issues with the 32s.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #53
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The O.D. is the same size, the I.D. is what's different.

Port matching is just that making sure the the ports are the same size.

Example: automotive head to intake runners, mostly your making sure that the intake side isn't bigger than the intake side of the head, thus causing a restriction.

I've done this with race engines mostly because of the mix and match of parts.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 06:04 PM   #54
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There you go. The stock 30s are matched up the the boots, and the stock boots are matched to the head. The 32mm carbs have the same od so they fit in Tue boots, but they aren't matched. I wouldn't call it port matching or porting, because it isn't an engine port.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:34 PM   #55
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True, I was just saying as an example.
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Old June 22nd, 2016, 11:42 PM   #56
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Received my carburetors back from Ducatiman today, and they look awesome, like new to be honest. Add the that the new stainless steel fasteners, and it looks almost too nice to put back on.

The carburetors were treated to Ducatiman's full services, of ultrasonic bath, soda blasting, split them, all O-rings replaced, including the fuel rail, bench synchronization, and finally wet testing for leaks, and verify the float heights.

Below are some before and after pictures taken by Ducatiman,





and the final product pictures by myself.










Can't wait to get these back on, and see the difference, and see if the difference I felt between the 30 Vs 32 was a positive, or a false positive.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 06:31 AM   #57
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Received my carburetors back from Ducatiman today, and they look awesome, like new to be honest. Add the that the new stainless steel fasteners, and it looks almost too nice to put back on.

The carburetors were treated to Ducatiman's full services, of ultrasonic bath, soda blasting, split them, all O-rings replaced, including the fuel rail, bench synchronization, and finally wet testing for leaks, and verify the float heights.

Below are some before and after pictures taken by Ducatiman,





and the final product pictures by myself.










Can't wait to get these back on, and see the difference, and see if the difference I felt between the 30 Vs 32 was a positive, or a false positive.
Do you have the ability to video at all? Maybe you could get a little objective data with back to back runs (same gear, stretch of road, etc) while shooting video of the gauges and we could use the timing for rough measuring. The change may be smaller than the resolution of the data based on needle swing and motion capture.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 10:36 AM   #58
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I do not have the ability to video, but I have many many years experience, and I'm confident in my butt dyno findings, and my MPG tracking.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 01:07 PM   #59
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I do not have the ability to video, but I have many many years experience, and I'm confident in my butt dyno findings, and my MPG tracking.
10-4. I believe you can tell a difference, my world at works revolves around objective data though so its always second nature for me to try and find ways to get it lol.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 07:30 PM   #60
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Agreed, but I didn't do anything to establish a baseline, so anything after that seems pointless.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 09:19 PM   #61
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Agreed, but I didn't do anything to establish a baseline, so anything after that seems pointless.
Not really IMHO.

IMHO the comparison isn't clean vs dirty carbs. The comparison is cvk30 vs cvk32.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 01:26 AM   #62
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Good point, I'll see what I can do.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 03:28 PM   #63
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Fourth tank with the 32s MPG still up. This is the last tank with the 32s as I have my 30s back now, and I just need about 1/2 hour to swap them out.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 04:25 PM   #64
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if nothing else, those 32's are delivering decent fuel economy
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Old June 25th, 2016, 04:30 PM   #65
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Agreed, also not a loss in MPG either from a quote "BIGGER" carburetors.
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Old July 2nd, 2016, 05:33 PM   #66
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 12:21 PM   #67
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So what was the up shot in the end ? What happened the 32's ? Did it get better when the original 30's were refitted ?
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Old December 6th, 2016, 03:08 PM   #68
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Just had a thought whilst looking at this. When I had my carbs off it became apparent that the head intakes at 32mm bore, the carb isolator is 30mm bore to match the newer 30mm carbs as fitted since 1989.

So in your experiment, did you use 32mm carb isolators ? If not then the bike was still running with a 30mm intake restriction, regardless of carb size !

Just a thought.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:12 PM   #69
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bump because of the long wait. What was the final outcome?
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Old March 15th, 2017, 10:58 PM   #70
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What do you want to know?
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Old March 16th, 2017, 01:27 AM   #71
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Well I'd like an answer to my previous question re carb isolators ? I did some research & you could use the left side of a GPZ600R bank of 4 &/or that bikes carb isolators which are 32mm bore but shorter for a higher rpm peak power !
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Old March 16th, 2017, 05:59 AM   #72
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I originally purchased and refurbed this 32mm carbset for resale to any forward thinking 86-87 owner interested in having spare carbs while they are still available...inevitably there will come a day when this vintage 32mm parts/carbsets become very rare.

Realizing they would bolt right in to 30mm models, Ghostt was interesting in trying, he experienced (as he posted) a perceived butt dyno measure of some more up top, accompanied by acceptable fuel mileage.

As this was a casual, simple experiment from the start...dyno time, further expense was never intended from the getgo.

I did research 86-87 EX250 OEM manifolds...were affordable and available...and, pending further research may very well suit a potential buyer of these carbs, which are back in my possession, casually "on hold" for Ghostt.

I must note that solely increasing carb and manifold size likely still restricted by factory intake porting, valve size and camshaft profiles.....science WAY above my knowledge and capabilities. That clearly enters engine "builder" territory, which, admittedly, I'm not. Hey, with $$, time, knowledge invested, the sky is the limit.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #73
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Well I finally pulled the trigger and got the 32s back, and installed.

Ducatiman even personalised them for me.

Thanks again to Ducatiman for setting me up, and of course they work perfectly, no issues. Installed, prime them, and kicked over on the first try, idled perfectly, and runs smooth and strong.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #74
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Simply marked with a sharpie when you decided to put them on reserve.

Glad they are working out.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #75
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playing catch up with backlogged stuff, i've refurbed another set of 32mm Keihins from '86/'87 vintage 250....pictured below.

Consumables, pilot and mains all brand new, stock jetting sizes. The broken plastic inlet rail replaced with an aftermarket brass elbow made for Harley spec Keihin ...utilizing stock size fuel line. All circuits confirmed clear, fuel levels setup, wet tested and throttle plates synched.

Member Ghostt will be testing the conversion mod from 30mm to 32mm. The 32's are a bored out version of 30's...direct bolt on. We're interested to see any changes in street performance...positive or negative.

Came out nice for '86 vintage, eh? ....30 year old carbs!

I'm sure he'll offer some feedback and comments here as time allows.
I would expect better top end performance at the expense of low R.P.M. tractability. Hell, I just put a 32mm Mikuni on my 500cc Honda single. Some guys installed 34s and weren't too happy with the set-up in stop and go traffic, but they ran like the hammers of hell in the upper R.P.M. range.

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Old June 30th, 2017, 01:20 PM   #76
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My experience has been it pulls better in the lower,mid band, and pulls strong all the way thru.

top end is maybe a bit better, but I haven't made too my runs to the max, maybe a mile or three more. Maybe if I it was track bike, it might be more relevant when thousands of a second matter between winning and losing

My feelings are it just seems to perform a little bit smoother, Enough to be noticed, but not huge amounts of top speed, mega HP, etc.... Its just smoother.

These are comparing OEM setups 30 Vs 32. Maybe playing with jets, needles, etc... On the 30s might perform better.

Did I need the 32s, no definitely not, did I want the 32s, definitely yes. I just one more thing to set my Ninjette apart from the rest, just like all the modifications, upgrades, etc... I've done.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #77
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My experience has been it pulls better in the lower,mid band, and pulls strong all the way thru.

top end is maybe a bit better, but I haven't made too my runs to the max, maybe a mile or three more. Maybe if I it was track bike, it might be more relevant when thousands of a second matter between winning and losing

My feelings are it just seems to perform a little bit smoother, Enough to be noticed, but not huge amounts of top speed, mega HP, etc.... Its just smoother.

These are comparing OEM setups 30 Vs 32. Maybe playing with jets, needles, etc... On the 30s might perform better.

Did I need the 32s, no definitely not, did I want the 32s, definitely yes. I just one more thing to set my Ninjette apart from the rest, just like all the modifications, upgrades, etc... I've done.
I'm glad you are happy with the 32s. Sounds like they are keepers. What size main jet are you running?

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Old June 30th, 2017, 02:31 PM   #78
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of course there are jetting differences between the vintages

86-87 vintage 32mm.....110 mains, 35 pilots, N52H and N52I needles differ left and right

88-07 vintage 30mm....105 main, 38 pilot N16I needles

But each carb set were/are 100% stock jetted as supplied by Keihin/Kawasaki....that, in itself, represents a fair (apples to apples) comparison in my book.

Could a quality jet kit with adjustable needle and selection of mains offer improvement on either carbset? Investment, time, effort required to explore, but not in the radar here.

This should answer your question about jet sizes, any other questions I will defer to @ducatiman

I still need to fine tune the idle mixture screws, but out of the box it's pretty close.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 02:36 PM   #79
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This should answer your question about jet sizes, any other questions I will defer to @ducatiman
Thanks. I'm running 110s now. I guess that's why that's the largest main jet Partzilla offers - they are for the 86' and 87'.

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Old September 12th, 2018, 12:56 PM   #80
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Was just wondering if anyone knew why the 32s have metal slides vs the 30s which are plastic?
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