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Old May 13th, 2009, 05:33 PM   #1
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Group Ninjette Ride & Crash :-(

Looks like a bunch of 250's riding in Arizona. A new-gen Red one has a crash right at the end of the video. The crash bike is the one directly in front of the camera bike in the last half of the video.

Link to original page on YouTube.

IMO the ending was telegraphed pretty clearly throughout the vid, he was riding way over his abilities. Not that he was going particularly fast, but his lines were terrible and he seemed to not be in control of steering the bike where he wanted it to go; limited knowledge/experience in countersteering, from what I can tell. The crash is right around the 7:50 minute mark, and you can see how he just doesn't turn into the left bend to follow the road, panics and runs off the road with the front brake on quite hard, and the bike immediately hits the ground. Thankfully it looks like he didn't have any life-threatening injuries, but may have banged up his leg pretty well, and damage to the bike is significant.

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Old May 13th, 2009, 06:27 PM   #2
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Notice most of the riders were not waeing much protection from the waist down. The girl had red sneakers.
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Old May 13th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #3
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Ouch! Were all his corners wrong if not most? It seemed also that he was sliding his butt off the seat more than leaning the bike over in the turns. Hope he was alright.
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Old May 13th, 2009, 08:52 PM   #4
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For the kind of speed he was doing, there was no need for him to be sliding his butt off the seat like that. The part where he crashed, it looks like he "target fixated" at the rock and just grabbed a lot of brake because he couldn't go left. He needed to look through the turns.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #5
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There is no need to be sliding off that much around those corners at that speed. It really seems as though he had not heard of counter steering and seems as though he object fixated on the crash corner. I have caught myself doing this a few times, but I am training myself not to.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 04:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper-Byte View Post
There is no need to be sliding off that much around those corners at that speed. It really seems as though he had not heard of counter steering and seems as though he object fixated on the crash corner. I have caught myself doing this a few times, but I am training myself not to.
As far as I can remember this guy is a forum member, and I red about the accident in the forum.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 05:40 AM   #7
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People know him on ninja250.org, but AFAIK we haven't met him on this site yet, but he's certainly welcome to sign up.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 06:52 AM   #8
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Gear or not, thats just to bad , group riding can put pressure sometimes to not break up the pack. I like riding at my own pace and not worrying about being to slow so I stay back. Hope the guy is OK
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Old May 14th, 2009, 07:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali619 View Post
Gear or not, thats just to bad , group riding can put pressure sometimes to not break up the pack. I like riding at my own pace and not worrying about being to slow so I stay back. Hope the guy is OK
Me too, but being part of a group has the advantage to relay on a friends who could help in need. So , I think it's better to ride in a group in a long distance trips.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 09:08 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cali619 View Post
Gear or not, thats just to bad , group riding can put pressure sometimes to not break up the pack. I like riding at my own pace and not worrying about being to slow so I stay back. Hope the guy is OK
In EVERY group I have EVER riden with it was always okay to wave a a rider by. *With the exception of the Sweep* Never has ANY sweep I have ever ridden with told me I was riding to slowly. I have never felt pressured to go faster than what I felt comfortable. Perhaps it is just the groups I have ridden with.

If the group is a good one they stop at all major turns (as a group or at least the rider in front so you know to turn). So really there is no pressure to ride faster than you feel like riding.

Either way I do hope the guy is okay and his bikes not to beat up! here is to a speedy recovery!
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Old May 14th, 2009, 09:19 AM   #11
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Wink

Quote:
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In EVERY group I have EVER riden with it was always okay to wave a a rider by. *With the exception of the Sweep* Never has ANY sweep I have ever ridden with told me I was riding to slowly. I have never felt pressured to go faster than what I felt comfortable. Perhaps it is just the groups I have ridden with.

If the group is a good one they stop at all major turns (as a group or at least the rider in front so you know to turn). So really there is no pressure to ride faster than you feel like riding.

Either way I do hope the guy is okay and his bikes not to beat up! here is to a speedy recovery!
Thats the same as the groups I ride with, but the person in the video that crashed may have been with different type of group of just was not expecting the pace to be picked up like that. But you not feeling pressured to ride faster is your style, I just mentioned some others may not be the same
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Old May 14th, 2009, 09:21 AM   #12
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Yeah, I have done a few group rides and I avoid them now. I want to ride for me, not for others.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 09:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali619 View Post
Thats the same as the groups I ride with, but the person in the video that crashed may have been with different type of group of just was not expecting the pace to be picked up like that. But you not feeling pressured to ride faster is your style, I just mentioned some others may not be the same
Yup. It looked like one of "I guess they're rebel's friends" moved up with "z-magic" and they picked up the pace on "reload", who couldn't keep up. Seems like riding with people you actually KNOW, and setting expectations and ground rules and contingencies ahead of time are good ideas!

I almost had an accident like that once. The thing that saved me is that I had just done some parking lot practice on accelerating from and to a stop. I had gotten confident on my bike's ability to stop quickly on a straight, so I straightened out (counter-intuitive in a turn, I know) and squeezed the brake to come almost to a stop. Then I steered into the (now) gradual low-speed turn. (I know I had gotten target-fixated and I shouldn't have, but that takes practice to untrain!)
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Old May 14th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #14
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The boy was riding beyond his abilities, thats all.
Hope he is OK ! The bike is on second place.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 11:51 AM   #15
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Lets hope we all can learn from this and not repeat it our group rally's coming up. Lets all be safe and keep eachother safe.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 02:00 PM   #16
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the pace seems kinda slow and from the video he over exaggerating the turn and leaning off of his bike just b/c you see something like an ama or super bike race doesn't mean you can do the same thing I feel bad for this guy he should have had more seat time before he tried to got out on a trip like this and you should always ride your own ride weather in a group or not just my 2pennies
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Old May 14th, 2009, 04:11 PM   #17
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Yup accidents happen, you have to know your own abilities and knowing the route or road would be an advantage, being a new rider and learner (myself) I would have sat towards the end of the pack and ridden a little slower ... it's better to get there safely than not at all. I am sure the pack would prefer to go a little slower - than not at all.

The dude simply didn't know what was coming in front of him and wasn't prepared.

The jeans offered zero protection ... ouch !!
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Old May 14th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #18
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when I see stuff like this it make me think of friends and buddy's that don’t ware very much protection.for me it doesn't matter if I am going to the store work or a long trip I wear all of my gear I also find it funny when I get to work in the morning and some of the people are kind laughing at me when I pull off my icon field armor knee pads
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Old May 14th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #19
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laughing at me when I pull off my icon field armor knee pads
They wouldn't be laughing if they knew you were a Ninja and could kick all their asses at the same time ... I like the Icon Pads and Armor - I am also investing in the Fox body Armor ... I reckon it looks awesome and can't wait to ride in it all ...
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Old May 14th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #20
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Yep. I now wear all leather. It seamed as though he wasn't used to leaning the bike over. Take a look at his body positioning and you can see that he is sliding his butt off the seat but his shoulder and head are not going with it it. In fact he looks pretty twisted up. He was also duck footed on his pegs.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 12:58 AM   #21
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The thing that is most surprising to me is that no one offered first aid just looked at his knee and thought oh s****


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Old May 15th, 2009, 02:14 AM   #22
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my wife and i sat and watched the vid...and she saw it right away...
"what is that guy doing?"...she doesnt pilot, but she's my fully qualified RIO...
anyway too much movement and not enough steering...heck looks like he rode the bike right off the road.
i LOVE the ninja because it is so effortless to manuver. when i test rode my bike before buying, i initiated a 45 deg. corner and shifted in the seat to set up the turn, and actually upset the bike doing so...i was like WHOA...then oh YEAH!..is gonna be fun piloting this machine.

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Old May 15th, 2009, 03:46 AM   #23
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Yeah looks like he didn't anticipate that left turn and was afraid to just lean into it. Thanks for sharing, Alex. I've never been on a group ride and this is something to learn from.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 04:14 AM   #24
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Its possible he didnt know the road there.

What I got from the vid is it seems like the switch snook up on him. looked like he realized it last second, then thought about straightening up but noticed his line now aimed at a pile of big rocks topped by a small tree, so he trys the turn but it was too late. Tires touched the loose stuff. imo

Personally I'm scared of the left side of the bike. The idea of the stand touching doesnt sit well with me.

Also maybe we should attempt to address rider pressure in person before our group ride next month Sunny. I've never riden with a large group so I hadnt thought about it even being a possibility until now.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 06:21 AM   #25
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Personally I'm scared of the left side of the bike. The idea of the stand touching doesnt sit well with me.
You would have to lean the bike well over to touch the stand and your peg feelers will hit before your stand does. You could also just take the centerstand off.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 06:41 AM   #26
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The thing that is most surprising to me is that no one offered first aid just looked at his knee and thought oh s****


Steve
most people just panic in this kind of situation and have no real training in 1st aid that was evident when they all jus stood their and one guy just wanted to take a look at it they backed off after he saw it
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Old May 15th, 2009, 06:44 AM   #27
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Thanks for cell phones in these types of situations.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 10:15 AM   #28
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Thanks for cell phones in these types of situations.
+1


It was shocking to see the girl at the end with a sleeveless shirt and sneaks on
I wonder if she had a jacket.


I dont have a center stand
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Old May 15th, 2009, 06:00 PM   #29
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i think he was trying to vision himself being rossi lol.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #30
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The leg part makes me glad I wear leg protection, and that I was wearing the leg protection when I last fell. I can definitely see some stress marks in the textile, jeans wouldn't have come close to that.

I'm sure it sucks, hope he has collision coverage.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 02:35 AM   #31
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most people just panic in this kind of situation and have no real training in 1st aid that was evident when they all jus stood their and one guy just wanted to take a look at it they backed off after he saw it
After seeing that I have to admit to feeling ashamed that as an Ex Boys Scouts of America Scout Master to not carrying a first aid kit when I am on the bike.
There is no excuse for not knowing first aid.

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Old May 16th, 2009, 07:11 AM   #32
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After seeing that I have to admit to feeling ashamed that as an Ex Boys Scouts of America Scout Master to not carrying a first aid kit when I am on the bike.
There is no excuse for not knowing first aid.

Steve
mini 1st aid kit not a bad idea
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Old May 16th, 2009, 08:41 AM   #33
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For the kind of speed he was doing, there was no need for him to be sliding his butt off the seat like that. The part where he crashed, it looks like he "target fixated" at the rock and just grabbed a lot of brake because he couldn't go left. He needed to look through the turns.
Quote:
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After seeing that I have to admit to feeling ashamed that as an Ex Boys Scouts of America Scout Master to not carrying a first aid kit when I am on the bike.
There is no excuse for not knowing first aid.

Steve

i read all the replies before i watched the video and holy cow are you guys right. its almost comical to see how far he was sliding off the bike and trying to be valentino rossi in 10 degree turns at like 30mph. this is definitely a good example of why everyone should take MSF classes as well as a track day or two with an instructor before going on group rides. i'm not trying to make fun of anyone but i definitely think its important to ride your own ride and not be embarrassed to take it slow and in your comfort zone if you are new to riding.

as far as the first aid kit thing. i agree, it sure is a good idea to carry one with you. I carry a first aid kit, flash light and a couple of basic tools in my tank bag. never hurts to be prepared
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Old May 16th, 2009, 09:21 AM   #34
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as morbid as it may sound, i've learned through experience that one must be ready to expect the unexpected. prior to the next time you pull out of that parking lot with the company of good buddies, friends of friends, or fellow riders you've never met, plant some worst case senario's into your noggin and ask yourself if you'd be prepared for that incident. what would you do? are you prepared for emergencies? how will you react when mere seconds matter?
review your skill level, and be prepared to eat some ego and remain within your riding envelope even if they've had to pull over to wait for you AGAIN.

granted, we can't be prepared for EVERYTHING...

but just abit of fore-thought can make you either one of those fellows who just stood around that fallen rider, or that one individual who tended to him instead.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 09:43 AM   #35
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A decent reference for accident management is posted into this sticky thread at the top of the General forum. I keep a copy in my tankbag.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #36
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helmet and voice of crashed rider

I found the vlog of the rider that crashed and looks like target fixation after a blind curve to a hard left.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old May 27th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #37
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The slo-mo at the end was interesting. It seemed like he started the turn alright and then locked on to the gravel. Then when the camera gets a shot of his knee -
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Old May 27th, 2009, 02:47 PM   #38
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He goes on to say that his tires have not been brocken in yet and he should probably be taking it a little easy. I guess he should have tacken his own advice.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 02:49 PM   #39
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worse part is that he rode all the way to Pheonix from orange county and bike got totalled. At lease he seems in ok shape since he posted vids of his accident. Hope sometimesIdo is having a safe and fun journey without this kind of mishap, cant wait to see his vlog.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 03:21 PM   #40
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ugh, that sucks. Looks like his bike went right where he was looking. Maybe a little too distracted with entertaining the video.
Glad he's still with us. Hope he has a speedy recovery.
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