Aprilia RS4 125 coming to the US

[spooph]

Originally Posted by Samer

Trying not to beat on a dead horse here, but there is no way to get to 100 mph on a naturally aspirated 125cc engine. Sorry. The latest and greatest technology is probably the BMW 1000rr. That engine is 999cc and produces 193 HP. So assuming that power to cc ratio gives the 125cc engine 24 HP. You need about 30 HP to get to 100mph on a typically shaped sport bike. Sorry, no matter how you look at it 125 cc doesn't add up. By the way, using that same power to cc, the Ninja 250 would be putting out 48 HP. Just to put things in perspective.

I couldn't agree with you more! MANUFACTURERS, READ THIS... Why don't we have a 48HP 250 yet? You can make liter bikes do all kinds of crazy things, and 600's too.... Why don't play real miracle workers and make a price competitive, performance 250.....

Originally Posted by Samer

I have a Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering. I've been a Senior Aerodynamics Engineer for many years. Now that I laid out some credentials. Most of what you just said is completely wrong. Gearing has nothing to do with the power required to reach 100 miles per hour. Also, the riders weight has almost nothing to do with top speed as well. So please, do not perpetuate myths if you are not 100% certain. I agree, when specs come out, we won't need to guess. However, no matter what happens, I'm certain this bike does not break the laws of physics.

OK, you obviously have the credentials, so please explain to us stoopid folks how this can be true. According to that statement, if we have a bike that will do 100mph with 150lb rider, then that same bike will also carry 250, 350, and 450lb worth of weight to 100mph. How about 1000lbs? This bike will also do this, no matter what you change the gears to, maybe even a direct drive.... OK, I realize we're not speaking of acceleration, and attaining that 100mph in any reasonable time frame, but is this what your saying?

[Apex]

Originally Posted by spooph

According to that statement, if we have a bike that will do 100mph with 150lb rider, then that same bike will also carry 250, 350, and 450lb worth of weight to 100mph. How about 1000lbs?

Well actually weight does play a factor into it. The bigger the rider, the less aerodynamic the bike becomes. Small riders can slip behind the bubble much easier than larger riders, therefore weight is an issue (just as rider height is).

[zartan]

Well I think it is just a plain cool bike. ! Inverted forks, alum frame etc...! If the speed limit is 35 and it can do 70 then what's the problem???
I don't think this was built to break land speed records... can we just have something fun for once??

[808yewtube]

The seat height is higher than the ninja250R. Bummer for us shorties.

[zartan]

looks like a lot of clearance to play with though!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Apex

Well actually weight does play a factor into it. The bigger the rider, the less aerodynamic the bike becomes. Small riders can slip behind the bubble much easier than larger riders, therefore weight is an issue (just as rider height is).

Agreed. Academically weight doesn't matter, when it comes to top speed. In the real world, weight matters significantly, as with the human body it is often correlated to aero drag, which has a very real effect on top speed.

[Samer]

Yes the reason weight plays almost no role, academically is because the difference in tire drag due to 10 or 20 pounds of weight is nothing compared with the aero drag. A "large" person, as in overweight, would obviously increase aero drag as Alex said. I wasn't talking about that. The math is fairly simple, when a bike is at top speed, it is in equilibrium. The power coming out of the tires is equal to the aero drag power which goes with the cube of speed. If you assume the same drag coefficient for all modern sport bikes you would get a fairly representative estimate of what power goes with what speed. Whether you are skinny or muscular, as long as you can tuck in, your actual weight, or the bikes weight wont matter.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Samer

uld get a fairly representative estimate of what power goes with what speed. Whether you are skinny or muscular, as long as you can tuck in, your actual weight, or the bikes weight wont matter.

But on a sportbike, an average size rider can't in fact tuck in such that his body has no effect on the aerodynamics. The fairings and windscreen just aren't that large. This doesn't start to make a difference just when someone gets to the morbidly obese level. On a small bike like ours, a difference of a someone 140 pounds and 170 pounds would likely still make an aero difference based on the profile they put into the wind. Of course a 450 pound marshmallow man would have an even larger challenge.

[zartan]

Boys! get a room !!

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by spooph

I couldn't agree with you more! MANUFACTURERS, READ THIS... Why don't we have a 48HP 250 yet? You can make liter bikes do all kinds of crazy things, and 600's too.... Why don't play real miracle workers and make a price competitive, performance 250.....



OK, you obviously have the credentials, so please explain to us stoopid folks how this can be true. According to that statement, if we have a bike that will do 100mph with 150lb rider, then that same bike will also carry 250, 350, and 450lb worth of weight to 100mph. How about 1000lbs? This bike will also do this, no matter what you change the gears to, maybe even a direct drive.... OK, I realize we're not speaking of acceleration, and attaining that 100mph in any reasonable time frame, but is this what your saying?

It may be easier to understand in terms of super-basic Newtonian physics (Isaac Newton; equal and opposite reaction; simple gravity; friction). We'll start with a rocket in space with zero resistance. Give it a small amount of constant thrust and it will gradually pick up speed until it reaches the maximum speed for that thrust (equal and opposite reaction). Once it reaches that point, you may as well shut the thrust off and continue at that speed because there's nothing slowing you down (unlike wind resistance on a bike; friction). The only difference more weight will have is that it takes longer to reach that speed. That same amount of thrust keeps accumulating speed until you are already going as fast in one direction as the thrust can propel in the other.

[Daeldren]

I know this isn't the right place to post this, but I just wanted to apologize to Samer if things got a little too heated in here. I wasn't meaning to start a fight if it seems that way and I respect and acknowledge his opinions/knowledge. That is one thing I don't want to see happen to this community here, ninjette is special to many of us.

[Racer x]

. At Maxton the with one mile of distance to accelerate.A brand new RS 175 two stroke with an average size guy. Modified with gears and a pipe and carb all costing 8000 dollars. ( its for sale with race and street body for $6500 PM me) barley went 100 mph . It set a bunch of records at 99 or so with a 6 foot 6 240 lb rider . My point is a 125 four stroke will NEVER go 100 mph period. The best 125 four stroke record is 65 mph .That is with LSR gearing. Street gearing I would guess the speed would be about 55 mph..
IF Aprilia sold a RS 250 then everyone would buy one. A four stroke 250 v twin with FI and the engine built by ROTAX would totally rock . This new 125 four stroke is a toy.And not a good one.

[Daeldren]

Agreed, doesn't make much sense in the american market. Why not throw their 550 vtwin in that frame instead, it would make more sense.

[Racer x]

All they would have to do is build an RS 250 with a cool motor . Offer a bunch of up grade parts and over priced carbon fiber goodies and they would sell like crazy. I just don't get the 125 four stroke at all.

[Samer]

Originally Posted by Daeldren

I know this isn't the right place to post this, but I just wanted to apologize to Samer if things got a little too heated in here. I wasn't meaning to start a fight if it seems that way and I respect and acknowledge his opinions/knowledge. That is one thing I don't want to see happen to this community here, ninjette is special to many of us.

Kenneth, Thanks. Actually, there is no need for an apology. My only intent was to clarify and/or dispel some common myths. It is difficult to convey tone in posts, but I assure you I was not upset with anyone in this thread. I just wanted to clarify some things, nothing more. Cheers

[europachris]

Originally Posted by Racer x

IF Aprilia sold a RS 250 then everyone would buy one. A four stroke 250 v twin with FI and the engine built by ROTAX would totally rock . This new 125 four stroke is a toy.And not a good one.

I've been hoping that Erik Buell comes out with something like this someday. The 1125 is just too much (the 102 hp Buell wrings out of a 1203cc Sporty lump is already enough to scare me), but take the 1125 chassis, lighten it, and stuff a 400 to 600cc Rotax v-twin in there. That would be the "everyday Joe" model. Then do a 250cc V-twin version as you stated. I'd get into racing with one of those - it would be far too much fun!

[Racer x]

Now there is an idea. Some manufacturer must have a clue .When Kawasaki re did the 250 ninja they had 60,000 back orders unfilled at the end of 2008.

That and with the 125 two stroke being replaced with 250 four strokes in moto GP and Honda coming out with a CBR 250.

The market ready for a 250 cc motorcycle. Twenty years ago all four top makers made inline four 250s. I just hope that happens again but with really good motors .1 2 3 4 cylinder or a V twin . OR heres a dream .How about a v4 250 with 45 hp and 30 foot pounds of torque.In a 325 lb bike? But what ever they do they need to work WITH the after market companies so that the parts are available. Because lots of people have a lot of fun personalizing there bikes. .

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by 808yewtube

The seat height is higher than the ninja250R. Bummer for us shorties.

And GREAT news for those of us over 6'!!!

Then again, that would only be the case if it was a 250 instead of a 125. A 125 in the U.S. has a market approaching zero. Outside of a spec race series, I just don't see it. Obviously Aprilia needs a U.S. market consultant. I think I'll prep my resume....

[bob138]

Originally Posted by Racer x

. At Maxton the with one mile of distance to accelerate.A brand new RS 175 two stroke with an average size guy. Modified with gears and a pipe and carb all costing 8000 dollars. ( its for sale with race and street body for $6500 PM me) barley went 100 mph . It set a bunch of records at 99 or so with a 6 foot 6 240 lb rider . My point is a 125 four stroke will NEVER go 100 mph period. The best 125 four stroke record is 65 mph .That is with LSR gearing. Street gearing I would guess the speed would be about 55 mph..
IF Aprilia sold a RS 250 then everyone would buy one. A four stroke 250 v twin with FI and the engine built by ROTAX would totally rock . This new 125 four stroke is a toy.And not a good one.

What motor can swap into the 4 stroke RS125 is the real question

Bob

[Raven]

If it was given to me for free, I'd be clutch-drop/full throttle happy on that bike any time of any day.

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by Raven

If it was given to me for free, I'd be clutch-drop/full throttle happy on that bike any time of any day.

If it was given to me for free, I'd still ride my 250R. I'd save the RS4 125 as a collector's item.

[Sailariel]

I think that the new crop of small displacement bikes is a good thing (hate to sound like hypocrite since I just bought a 700cc) Like Alex said, good small bikes are fun and, I might add, help develop good skills and an appreciation of the whole sport. I used to be into sports cars. Back in my day you started out with an MG Midget, graduated to an MGA or Healy 3000, then up to a Porsche, Lotus, and so on. My son decided to get into sports cars--So what does he get? A C-5 Vette. Great car! But is it an entry level sports car? We are seeing the same thing in bikes--people starting with literbikes. I started out with a 250 in 1958 and have had a wide variety of bikes. The biggest displacement I have ever owned was a H-D Model K (pre Sportster 1000cc) and a 1953 Vincent Rapide 1000cc. I had the Vincent for a very short time for two reasons--I was 18 and ,quite frankly, it was entirely too much bike. The thing scared the hell out of me then and probably would do the same today. The fastest bike that I have tried to date was a 2007 Suzuki Hyabusa. It handeled like a dream but had so much power that the vigilance a rider would have to have, took a lot of the fun out of the experience. We need to ride what works for us--what we really use the bike for. If you live in CA and you have a one hour commute on the Freeway one way--a 600cc to a 1000cc sport bike could be your ideal. If you live in CA and your commute is a half an hour on secondary roads with maybe a short stint on the freeway--a 250 Ninja is super. We need to honestly asess what we really need. I chose a 700 because I tend to do 100mi short runs and 1000mi long runs. Were I 20 years younger, a 250 Ninja would probably have fit the ticket. At age 69. I need something more comfortable. (The Kawasaki Concourse came to mind, but it was too tall and too heavy.

[europachris]

Our whole perception of what we "need" has shifted drastically over the past few decades - no matter what the "item". Houses - once upon a time a 3 bedroom, 2 bath ranch was living it up. Now that's "entry-level". Cars - the Mustang 5.0 started out with 140hp back in the 80's. When it got up to 180-220 hp it was a real honest hotrod! Now even a pedestrian econobox is lambasted by the press if it doesn't have a 250hp engine. I have yet to own a car with more than 100hp! '80 Rabbit 1.6 fuel injected - 78hp, '93 Saturn SL - 85hp, '02 VW Jetta TDI wagon - 90hp (and lots of torque). OK, so I do have to plan passing someone a bit ahead of time, but I've never felt unsafe. I also don't get speeding tickets! Now the base Mustang has as much power as last year's GT and the new GT is just nuts. The blown Mustangs and Vettes are beyond insane - WTF are you going to do with 600hp?

I remember a friend of my mother's rode to our house with her son on her CB125 back around '75 or so. Looking at pics of that bike today almost makes me laugh - it is barely above a moped. Nevertheless, it was able to handle two-up riding on 55mph two lane roads, and since she was no more than 110 lbs. soaking wet, perfect for her to handle. So that bike had maybe 12 hp? How is it do we need 100hp 600's and 180hp+ literbikes? How fast do you want to kill yourself or lose your license?

I'll admit, I love the effortless power of my Buell. But it takes a lot of concentration to keep it under 75-80mph, it just naturally wants to cruise there. The current crop of sport bikes are so capable and powerful that even remotely tapping into the potential of them is way beyond legal speeds. So why do so many think anything less is not going to cut it? Worse, these people won't even consider riding something so "small" as a 250. Maybe they are compensating???? I look for any excuse I can to ride the wife's Ninja, and end up laughing and grinning the entire time. There is something so much more satisfying about riding a bike where you're able to tap into it's capabilities much further, and even though the limits maybe lower, it's still way more fun even though you're going slower.

[Manimal]

Depending on price, I too would have this over a scooter. On the other hand, it would probably be too pricey for a broke college student use as transportation. Sure, it would make a fun second bike (like a mini) to navigate our urban and local back roads, but that is all it would be good for.

As most of you have stated, they would have a larger market if it came with a 250 motor = legal for freeway speeds here in the states.

On a relevent note, after seeing the CBR250 which will become available, I would still choose my 09 Ninja 250 over the CBR. The look of the Honda does not appeal to me.

[zartan]

Originally Posted by Raven

If it was given to me for free, I'd be clutch-drop/full throttle happy on that bike any time of any day.

Ride it like you stole it haha!! I agree it would be a blast to play with!!

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Anteraan

If it was given to me for free, I'd still ride my 250R. I'd save the RS4 125 as a collector's item.

I respect your way of possessing such motorcycles to keep it fresh as we age into wrinkled bags. But respect mine, for I bleed nothing but moto insanity.

Originally Posted by zartan

Ride it like you stole it haha!! I agree it would be a blast to play with!!

Right on! It's size and power are more suitable to be abused without ticketed in such manner in streets...Unlike 600, which will hurl you into hyperspace so it's kind of boring to ride it all the time in such low rpms at posted speeds.

That's why I'm gonna miss my 250R when someone buys it.

[slolane]

I agree with the above but will keep my eye on this to start my 16 year old out on next year so long as the price is right then have him move over to the Ninja 250. Love the small bikes, soooo fun!

[00NissanNinja]

So today I was just looking around and what do I see? The aforementioned aprillia rs4 125 on the aprillia usa site. Much to my surprise they said it is going to be $5,500. There is no way that is remotely going to be competitive with the ninja(at least I wouldn't buy it). I am pretty sure this is about the price since everything else on the site seems to be at the right price but it could be wrong.
http://www.apriliausa.com/en-US/Mode.../Overview.aspx

EDIT: never mind I think that is a race version and a two stroke, so the street legal one that is coming out later should be cheaper than that

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by Raven

I respect your way of possessing such motorcycles to keep it fresh as we age into wrinkled bags. But respect mine, for I bleed nothing but moto insanity.

Right on! It's size and power are more suitable to be abused without ticketed in such manner in streets...Unlike 600, which will hurl you into hyperspace so it's kind of boring to ride it all the time in such low rpms at posted speeds.

That's why I'm gonna miss my 250R when someone buys it.

There's no respect issue there at all, Neil. I was just expressing my preference for the 250 over this 125 (especially since I'm 6'2", 205#). I also think this Aprilia could appreciate considerably, since I can't believe that sales in the U.S. market will be anything other than utterly abysmal.

[zartan]

Originally Posted by Anteraan

I also think this Aprilia could appreciate considerably, since I can't believe that sales in the U.S. market will be anything other than utterly abysmal.

If I sell enough homes (please,please)
I will be getting one for our 35 mph twistys here in the country..The thing is bitchen!
Alum frame upside down forks.....

Most likely will be a used one with Aprilla's price point and our housing price points aren't stellar right now.

Side note: How did my iPad think raiders was a good replacement fo twistys ? Haha

[RaceBikeRentals]

Originally Posted by spooph

I couldn't agree with you more! MANUFACTURERS, READ THIS... Why don't we have a 48HP 250 yet? You can make liter bikes do all kinds of crazy things, and 600's too.... Why don't play real miracle workers and make a price competitive, performance 250.....

A 4 cylinder, 250cc bike is too expensive to produce in today's economy. It won't sell. The MSRP would have to be somewhere around $6000 - $6500, and the market won't support a 250cc bike at that price. Especially the US market, which accounts for a large chunk of the global high-dollar market in motorcycle sales. Its a great idea, but there's a reason 4 cylinder 250cc bikes never stuck around for very long in the past. Sure, the Canucks bought a few of them, but they're used to paying out the nose for everything.

[CZroe]

So, with this bike weighing nearly 100lbs less, could a rider of, say, 125lbs get decent performance out of this thing compared to a 250 carrying a rider of 250lbs?

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by CZroe

So, with this bike weighing nearly 100lbs less, could a rider of, say, 125lbs get decent performance out of this thing compared to a 250 carrying a rider of 250lbs?

No the performance of this bike will disapoint everyone.

The bike is going to cost over 6000 dollars with tax and dealer set up and freight. 6000 dollars for a bike that will not hit 80 mph. People will buy them .and people would also pay 6000 for a 250 four cylinder.

[zartan]

Where did you see 6000.00?? I have seen that for the race 2 stroke model but have not seen a price for this. I still want one haters!!!
Oh and as much as I want a play bike, Aprilia really blew it not coming to the Seattle show, as did Triumph, guzzi, BMW bah!

[JMcDonald]

I'd love a 250cc 4-cyl cranking out 35+hp at the wheel and revving to the moon. I'd get the great 4-cyl wail with a nice level of performance.

[CZroe]

Well, guys, it looks like it's actually a rebadged Derbi GPR 125.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...For+Leather%29

The wikipedia page seems to have specs from the older two-stroke version mixed up (90-100MPH top speed with 15HP? No.). There IS a 150cc big-bore kit sold as an accessory.

Anyway, the Derbi bike has been around since '09 so I wonder why we haven't heard of or talked about it.

[Daeldren]

If I had disposable cash right now I'd pick up the RS125 2 stroke that has been sitting at my Duc dealers showroom for like 2 years now, they are willing to part with it for like 4 grand brand new. Nothing like a screaming 2 stroke lightweight gp style bike to race.

But alas I can only really afford to track the Ninja for now, which is probably cheaper to race anyways.

I always sit on that bike when I visit the showroom, it is just so light. Sad to think that I am attracted to that bike over the RSV4 and Ducati 848, 1198 Etc...

[alex.s]

http://www.aprilia.com/en-US/Model/7...Technical.aspx

*drooooooool* i want.

[Cuongism]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ht=Aprilia+125

You just got kkim-ed!

(I hope this lingo catches on )

[Racer x]

Ok I work at an Aprilia dealership. I am do all the service and repair. I have worked on the RS 50 the 125 and the 250 as well as the mille R and the rest.No RSV4 yet haha
Originaly I hated this bike. It pissed me off that they did not bring out a four stroke 250 with a frame and suspension right off the motol GP circut. It seemed to me that with Moto GP droping the 125 two stroke for a 250 four stroke and Honda and Kawasaki having great sucess .It was a no brainer to come out with an RS 4250. But they came out with a 7000 dolllar track toy that will not go 75 mph.

I did not see it as a replacement for the RS50. That was my mistake. I was totaly wrong about the bike. I rode a bad ass rs 50 with a 90cc kit and a crank and pipe. The thing is the bomb. Lighter than a 250 Ninja but gutless and ZERO bottom end power. A 125 fourstroke will be a fun bike instead of an RS 50. Yes they should come out with an rS 250 fourstroke to replace the RS 125. But th is bike is cool.