Okay, now they've got my attention... Brammo

[adouglas]

Just caught the pricing on the new Brammo Empulse.

This is to my eye a very good-looking streetfighter with adequate power for a commuter bike (40 kw = 53 hp, claimed 100 mph top speed and of course the awesome torque that only an electric motor can provide). The range, too, is enough for my commuting needs. Low end model is 60 miles, top end model is 100 miles. Three models are available... 60, 80 and 100.

Pricing starts at 9995 and tops out at 14k before incentives. Currently the feds offer 10 percent off the purchase price for electric bikes, and my state (CT) is considering waiving sales tax which would take off another 6 percent.

Still a lot more than a gasoline bike, but now it's at least in the same county if not the same ball park.

It's starting to get my attention. Rather than trading up for the next bike I can see getting one of these to ride to work and keeping the Ninjette for fun on the weekends.

Part of the deficit reduction package is a proposed major hike in the gasoline tax....

[CThunder-blue]

Looks cool. Any specs on it? Charge time? How much the battery costs to replace and how long it might last? I know in hybrid cars, batteries can cost up to 5k to replace. I wonder many cycles (no pun intended) the battery can handle before it powers down.

[Blackwidow]

thats pretty interesting, though i still like the look of my ninjette...i guess i'm spoiled...nothing is prettier then her.

[adouglas]

http://www.brammo.com

[FrugalNinja250]

FWIW, there are a lot of gasoline bikes selling for more than 14k...

If I had the income to purchase any kind of vehicle in the 14k range, car or bike, I'd buy the top of the line Brammo without hesitation.

[almost40]

Looks real nice. Cost to much. Wrap it in some nice looking plastic and price it at 6 grand and I would be interested.

[Snake]

Great looking bike. I'm sure the price will come down in time.

[spooph]

As with most bikes, a test ride is going to be the deciding factor. I think $10K is a bit much. Knock all the prices by $2K, and I think we're talking realistic...

I mean, 8K for a 500 is a bit much, but not having to pay for oil changes/gas, etc would be enough to make me think on it.... But $10K is a bit much, not to mention the $14K...

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by spooph

As with most bikes, a test ride is going to be the deciding factor. I think $10K is a bit much. Knock all the prices by $2K, and I think we're talking realistic...

I mean, 8K for a 500 is a bit much, but not having to pay for oil changes/gas, etc would be enough to make me think on it.... But $10K is a bit much, not to mention the $14K...

Lots of folks had no problem paying $800 for CD players and $1,200 for VCRs when they entered the mainstream, hopefully the same will hold true for the Brammo. We really, really, really need some alternatives to gasoline soon.

[slolane]

I'm diggin the Brammo bikes as well. I followed Shocking Barack where they rode their Enertia (version 1) from Detroit to Washington DC. They now have a Version 2 of that commuter called the Enertia Plus that goes apx 80 miles and is much cheaper than the Empulse for a commuter. I agree the prices are high for this new technology but I hope it continues to develope and prices lower over time.

[CThunder-blue]

prices will be dictated primarily by supply and demand. If they have no market competition, then their prices will stay that way until it catches on to become more mainstream. Maybe in a couple years there will be more companies like Brammo and Tesla. I would love to see Tesla make a motorcycle.

[Cedilla]

It seems like we will all be using electric vehicles in the future. In the future us old folks will probably have to operate our dino fuel vehicles in secret. lol

[spooph]

Frugal, very true! I have no doubts that there will be enough folks purchasing these bikes at those elevated prices making the technology cheaper for the rest of us. Quite frankly, I can't wait until that happens.

I've been following Brammo, Zero, MotoCyzc (SP?), Mission, Quanta, the one that starts with an "A" - the one that won the TTGXP, etc since the begging. Whatever I can get my hands on... Electric is massively exciting. I remember when I first heard of the Mission One - the pre-order price was $100K in mid-2009. I think it's less now.

But this Brammo Empulse, just a few K cheaper and I'm in! I think CThunder-Blue nailed it. Supply and demand. How many miles do you have to drive a ninja500 to make up the difference between it's price and the Empulse? I use the 500 because that's the same amount of power as the Empulse.... And irrespective of how irrelevant the comparison might be, it's what people will use as the base-line factor, I think.

Somebody posted just such a calculator "How many miles till it's worth it", and for me, I think it ended up being close to 40,000 miles. Alright, fine, after 2.5 years I'll start seeing cost savings, but I don't know what the batteries would look like after 40,000 miles worth of cycling...

[edwinmcq]

Looks very good. I've been waiting for an electric bike that I could use to commute the grueling 3.5 miles to work and back.

[RaceBikeRentals]

Do you have any idea what this bike will be worth in 30 years? $10K will seem like an amazing bargain

[almost40]

Originally Posted by RaceBikeRentals

Do you have any idea what this bike will be worth in 30 years? $10K will seem like an amazing bargain

Is that due to inflation or what? Im not seeing it as a good investment. Now if the bike is a quality machine and the company is run correctly, stock in the company (if publicly traded) MIGHT be worth something down the road. Depends on what happens with the Global warming lobby and the price of a kilowatt hour of electricity in my opinion.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by spooph

Frugal, very true! I have no doubts that there will be enough folks purchasing these bikes at those elevated prices making the technology cheaper for the rest of us. Quite frankly, I can't wait until that happens.

I've been following Brammo, Zero, MotoCyzc (SP?), Mission, Quanta, the one that starts with an "A" - the one that won the TTGXP, etc since the begging. Whatever I can get my hands on... Electric is massively exciting. I remember when I first heard of the Mission One - the pre-order price was $100K in mid-2009. I think it's less now.

But this Brammo Empulse, just a few K cheaper and I'm in! I think CThunder-Blue nailed it. Supply and demand. How many miles do you have to drive a ninja500 to make up the difference between it's price and the Empulse? I use the 500 because that's the same amount of power as the Empulse.... And irrespective of how irrelevant the comparison might be, it's what people will use as the base-line factor, I think.

Somebody posted just such a calculator "How many miles till it's worth it", and for me, I think it ended up being close to 40,000 miles. Alright, fine, after 2.5 years I'll start seeing cost savings, but I don't know what the batteries would look like after 40,000 miles worth of cycling...

Depends on what your electric rates are. Here in Illinois 90+% of our power comes from coal. Its inexpensive right now, to light up the house. Coal is one of the demons for the global warming crowd. (its just way to dirty according to them) I wonder what my rate for a kilowatt hour will be in a couple years. No way to predict it.
Out on the left coast, isnt power in short supply already?? Wonder what your rates will be in a couple years. You think nuke plants just pop up out of the ground for free?? WAIT we cant have them either.

[Cab305]

"President Obama's announcement Tuesday of loan guarantees for nuclear power plants may encourage new construction"

Who says we can't have power plants, the current administration is for it....

Don't believe everything Fox tells you.

Here's the link see for yourself.
U.S. President announces $8.3 billion US in loan guarantees to build 2 plants in Georgia
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/0...lear-loan.html

I'll consider one for sure, cause Im'a a pinko commi nature loving elitist liberal.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Cab305

"President Obama's announcement Tuesday of loan guarantees for nuclear power plants may encourage new construction"

Who says we can't have power plants, the current administration is for it....

Don't believe everything Fox tells you.

Here's the link see for yourself.
U.S. President announces $8.3 billion US in loan guarantees to build 2 plants in Georgia
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/0...lear-loan.html

I'll consider one for sure, cause Im'a a pinko commi nature loving elitist liberal.

The problem isnt the federal funding here in Illinois (obamas home state) Its everything else. No one wants to have it in there back yard. (3 mile island) Then, where are we to store the waste? Who is going to pay what the federal government isnt? etc etc.
It takes almost 3 years to get everything in order to build wind turbines here in Illinois. Thats Clean energy with no real side effects and it takes 3 years. (Unless you listen to the envirowackoos and they may disrupt flight patters of migrating birds....YEAH RIGHT) I say build them NOW. Republicans or in my case conservatives arent in the way. Its the liberal machine here in Illinois thats holding everything up.
Maybe you should turn off NPR and MSNBC and think for yourself a little. Who really wants dirty air and water?? I mean seriously. Id love to have reliable nuke power here in Illinois. This state is run by liberals lock stock and barrel and we cant get it done here because of the Global warming lobby and the government machine. THINK a little. If we could get the state and federal government along with the beauracrats out of the way it might get done quickly.
Cab can you tell me how many nuke plants have been built since the three mile island incident?? How about gasoline refinereys in the past 20 years?? Its not like we dont need the product they produce. Its the Machine thats in the way. Not the public, liberal of republican.

[spooph]

Blah Blah Blah, yadda yadda yadda. I was just saying what I think would make it worth while..

Now, add a wind-turbine to my roof top, and some solar panels, and I can start selling power back to the company. In fact, the more people generate at least some electricity at home, the more feasible electric vehicles become.

http://www.coseia.org/newsite/home.html

http://www.coloradco.com/

http://www.dalyrenewables.com/

Heck, just look here: http://energy.sourceguides.com/busin...N/byName.shtml

Definitely a viable option where I live... I don't mean to be confrontational here. I believe that one can have cake, and eat it to, with enough commitment and forethought. This is how I see it as a possibility.... Affordable electric bike, at least 50% annual consumption of electricity "home grown", and food from the local natural grocer (ie - stuff coming from our local farms). Sounds like a pretty awesome life to me....

Originally Posted by almost40

Depends on what your electric rates are. Here in Illinois 90+% of our power comes from coal. Its inexpensive right now, to light up the house. Coal is one of the demons for the global warming crowd. (its just way to dirty according to them) I wonder what my rate for a kilowatt hour will be in a couple years. No way to predict it.
Out on the left coast, isnt power in short supply already?? Wonder what your rates will be in a couple years. You think nuke plants just pop up out of the ground for free?? WAIT we cant have them either.

[PsychoNinja]

That bike looks sweet! That would be a great commuter bike!

However, I would rather wait until electric cars and motorcycles are more prevalent before buying though cuz repair costs are gonna suck right now, plus the technology is still not perfected yet.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by almost40

... (Unless you listen to the envirowackoos and they may disrupt flight patters of migrating birds....YEAH RIGHT) I say build them NOW. Republicans or in my case conservatives arent in the way. Its the liberal machine here in Illinois thats holding everything up.
Maybe you should turn off NPR and MSNBC and think for yourself a little. Who really wants dirty air and water?? I mean seriously. Id love to have reliable nuke power here in Illinois. This state is run by liberals lock stock and barrel and we cant get it done here because of the Global warming lobby and the government machine. THINK a little. If we could get the state and federal government along with the beauracrats out of the way it might get done quickly.
Cab can you tell me how many nuke plants have been built since the three mile island incident?? How about gasoline refinereys in the past 20 years?? Its not like we dont need the product they produce. Its the Machine thats in the way. Not the public, liberal of republican.

Just wanted to say that I find your comments personally offensive, as do I find your avatar personally offensive. Many forums have policies that ban overtly political avatars and comments because of the simple fact that unless you're on a political forum they just don't belong there. Please take your political masturbation to some place that cares.

As to the comments on nuclear power, the simple fact is that we import a majority of our nuclear fuel from Russia in the form of decommissioned/reprocessed weapons and sub/navy power plant fuel. Russia is not our friend. Putin is a tin-pot dictator in sheep's clothing.

We do not have, and cannot have in the foreseeable future, enough nuclear fuel production in-country to supply our existing reactors, let alone any new ones being planned or built. And that doesn't even address the waste issues, the biggest of which to me is the fact that every year we produce tons, literally tons, of what is a terrorist's wet dream. Determined people will eventually get what they want, no matter what.

One very appealing option is thorium reactor technology. Safe, less messy, we're self-sufficient in it, and it's been around since the 1940's.

http://energyfromthorium.com/
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/

Personally, I feel that any energy policy that does not focus on eliminating our dependence on foreign nations (friendly or otherwise, now or in the future) is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars, and bodes ill for the long term survival of this nation. There is nothing inherent about America that guarantees it will survive the near, mid, or long term future. Even the Roman Empire, which spanned a significant portion of this globe for thousands of years eventually failed. And so can we.

[Cab305]

I want one for track, take out all the batteries except for 1 or 2, just enough to go 15-20 laps. You can make it 25% lighter and get that top end up there.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by spooph

Blah Blah Blah, yadda yadda yadda. I was just saying what I think would make it worth while..

Now, add a wind-turbine to my roof top, and some solar panels, and I can start selling power back to the company. In fact, the more people generate at least some electricity at home, the more feasible electric vehicles become.

http://www.coseia.org/newsite/home.html

http://www.coloradco.com/

http://www.dalyrenewables.com/

Heck, just look here: http://energy.sourceguides.com/busin...N/byName.shtml

Definitely a viable option where I live... I don't mean to be confrontational here. I believe that one can have cake, and eat it to, with enough commitment and forethought. This is how I see it as a possibility.... Affordable electric bike, at least 50% annual consumption of electricity "home grown", and food from the local natural grocer (ie - stuff coming from our local farms). Sounds like a pretty awesome life to me....

I wasnt trying to be confrontational. I was trying to help a little with your calculations. I tried to add it up for myself for this product and the volt. I ran into a wall with my math because I cant calculate the price of energy here in Illinois 2, 3, 4, and 5 years down the road.
As far as personal wind turbines. I WISH, but zoning denied my permit for a 60 foot tower when I was building my latest house. (bastards)
Solar pannels just arent efficent enough for me yet, or I would have added them into the design of my house. Best I could find at the time was 18% efficent and my calculations came up with 30% to make it worth it.
As far as selling the power back to the electric company they charge 11 cents a kilowatt hour and pay 1 penny per here in Illinois. Your state might be different but not here in Illinois.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Just wanted to say that I find your comments personally offensive, as do I find your avatar personally offensive. Many forums have policies that ban overtly political avatars and comments because of the simple fact that unless you're on a political forum they just don't belong there. Please take your political masturbation to some place that cares.

As to the comments on nuclear power, the simple fact is that we import a majority of our nuclear fuel from Russia in the form of decommissioned/reprocessed weapons and sub/navy power plant fuel. Russia is not our friend. Putin is a tin-pot dictator in sheep's clothing.

We do not have, and cannot have in the foreseeable future, enough nuclear fuel production in-country to supply our existing reactors, let alone any new ones being planned or built. And that doesn't even address the waste issues, the biggest of which to me is the fact that every year we produce tons, literally tons, of what is a terrorist's wet dream. Determined people will eventually get what they want, no matter what.

One very appealing option is thorium reactor technology. Safe, less messy, we're self-sufficient in it, and it's been around since the 1940's.

http://energyfromthorium.com/
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/

Personally, I feel that any energy policy that does not focus on eliminating our dependence on foreign nations (friendly or otherwise, now or in the future) is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars, and bodes ill for the long term survival of this nation. There is nothing inherent about America that guarantees it will survive the near, mid, or long term future. Even the Roman Empire, which spanned a significant portion of this globe for thousands of years eventually failed. And so can we.

Thanks for the political rant.
Sorry you dont like my avitar but unless your obama I wonder why it offends you? I wasnt offended when Bush was called Hitler. They werent talking about me, what do I care. It was there right to call him whatever they want just as its my right to call obama whtever I please. Welcome to America and the first amendment. If your lucky your little jab about being offended will promt Alex to ask me to change it. That was your intent right?

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Cab305

I want one for track, take out all the batteries except for 1 or 2, just enough to go 15-20 laps. You can make it 25% lighter and get that top end up there.

Id love to try that exact set-up at the track if it could be quick charged full in 45 min for the next session.

[Alex]

How to use the ignore function: Click here

It's a shame that this feature is put into these boards, but it's here for a reason. I'm just sorry that we can't have a single thread regarding electric vehicles (and there have been many) without people feeling this becomes the thread to express their allegiance to one political mindset and their disdain of another. It just gets old.

As for the Brammo, I'll take generation 6. I've got time....

[spooph]

almost40, cool! Point taken! Don't mean to insult, but sounds like Illinois is a very limiting and cheap state when it comes to green power. Not sure about all of Colorado, but here in the Boulder are (tree-hugger center), things are a bit different. Oh, I also feel as I should apologize if I was harsh in the least. Your response definitely humbled me. Thank you!

[Samer]

Originally Posted by almost40

Thanks for the political rant.
Sorry you dont like my avitar but unless your obama I wonder why it offends you? I wasnt offended when Bush was called Hitler. They werent talking about me, what do I care. It was there right to call him whatever they want just as its my right to call obama whtever I please. Welcome to America and the first amendment. If your lucky your little jab about being offended will promt Alex to ask me to change it. That was your intent right?

It's one thing to have an opinion. It's another to wear it on your sleeve. My biggest peeve is the grammatical errors in your posts.

1) Avatar is misspelled. Even though this forum has automatic highlighting for misspellings. [Correction: This is a browser feature, thanks Jet!]

2) Incorrect use of "you're" as "your"

You said "If your lucky". He doesn't own lucky. People, we don't have to agree on politics, but for the sake of the English language let's learn to use "your", "you're", "there", "their" and "they're" correctly.

And I'm off the box for now.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Alex

How to use the ignore function: Click here

Thanks for the reminder...

Plonk...

[JeffM]

I keep eyeballing the Brammo Empulse. At least for now, most of my riding is my 5 mile commute and canyon runs (I'm within 15 minutes of two mountain canyons ) So, this bike would make sense for my type of riding. Plus, of all the current electric bikes, it is one of the best looking.

The Native S is not bad looking either. However it seems to be more of a commuter (non freeway) bike.

I believe that five years from now there will be some nice electric bikes to choose from.



Now only if Motoczysz could mass produce this little gem as a street bike (edit - this will never be mass produced )

[JeffM]

Additionally, there is the RR version of the Brammo. Basically a souped up version of the Empulse for racing.



"Up-close the Empulse RR is just as striking as the Empulse street bike, with an obviously more performance-oriented attitude. The most striking addition is the full race fairing, which Brammo’s Director of Product Development Brian Wismann says could be an option to Empulse owners if there’s enough interest. There is also some hinting as to the possibility of there being an Empulse spec-racing class, but we’ll have to wait and see on that development."

[CZroe]

I'm just wondering how I could run a cord from my condo unit to the parking lot.

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

prices will be dictated primarily by supply and demand. If they have no market competition, then their prices will stay that way until it catches on to become more mainstream. Maybe in a couple years there will be more companies like Brammo and Tesla. I would love to see Tesla make a motorcycle.

Look up Mission Motors and their Mission One. They are founded by a Tesla engineer/designer. Just like the Tesla though, they are asking for a luxury price.

Originally Posted by almost40

Is that due to inflation or what? Im not seeing it as a good investment. Now if the bike is a quality machine and the company is run correctly, stock in the company (if publicly traded) MIGHT be worth something down the road. Depends on what happens with the Global warming lobby and the price of a kilowatt hour of electricity in my opinion.

I saw an interview with Jay Leno where someone was asking him about what cars he expected to be collectible. He pointed out that when too many cars are sold for that purpose, like the Dodge Vipers in the '90s where most owners threw them in a garage and preserved them with low mileage, flood the market by there being too many low mileage mint condition examples available. He suggested the original Honda Insight just because hybrids flew under the general population's radar until the Prius and not many were sold and the general public still thinks that Toyota was first.

Originally Posted by almost40

Id love to try that exact set-up at the track if it could be quick charged full in 45 min for the next session.

When I worked at a warehouse with electric forklifts and pallet runners, were just pulled up next to a giant battery-changing machine with a wall of batteries. All we need is a standard replaceable unit that can be augmented with extra ones built wherever they fit.

Originally Posted by Samer

...
1) Avatar is misspelled. Even though this forum has automatic highlighting for misspellings.
...

Umm... the forum doesn't spell check. Your browser does.

Originally Posted by JeffM

Additionally, there is the RR version of the Brammo. Basically a souped up version of the Empulse for racing.



"Up-close the Empulse RR is just as striking as the Empulse street bike, with an obviously more performance-oriented attitude. The most striking addition is the full race fairing, which Brammo’s Director of Product Development Brian Wismann says could be an option to Empulse owners if there’s enough interest. There is also some hinting as to the possibility of there being an Empulse spec-racing class, but we’ll have to wait and see on that development."

Wouldn't the fairing make it more efficient and improve range by guiding wind around the rider? It should be standard.

[Samer]

Thanks for the correction Jet. I sure hope energy storage technology continues to improve. It seems that we could be on the verge of mainstream electric vehicles.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Samer

Thanks for the correction Jet. I sure hope energy storage technology continues to improve. It seems that we could be on the verge of mainstream electric vehicles.

No problem.

Anyway, one electric vehicle supplier suggested that we all install 240 volt outlets even though their vehicle worked with 110 volt. Supposedly it charges more efficiently and faster. I wonder if that is also the case here, seeing how much they tout the standard 110v capability.

[spooph]

It is usually the case yes... 220 rocks! 50hz doesn't though...

[ninja3575]

Yeah... so battery powered bikes are on the horizon ... but are they really "GREEN" ??? Well the obvious answer is yes since they don't consume fossil fuels, which is true.. but theres always a trade off.

Ok... my argument will seem a little diminished without practical numbers to work with but given our already over-burdened electrical grid... Where are we gonna get all the extra power necessary to power the potential boon in electric hybrids and pure electric vehicles?? ... Where does the vast majority of electricity come from? more specifically... how is electricity generated?

The Answer is.... WE BURN COAL !! COAL is the second largest pollutant, in terms of Green house gases, in the US !! Large amounts of CO2 gases are generated to feed our ELECTRIC needs here in the states...

So switching to electric vehicles reduces carbon emissions via fossil fuel burn off... but it is offset by an increase in consumer consumption of electricity... electricity that is produced by burning Coal ... and we have an incredible amount of coal here in the US...

Damn, i'm being such a wet blanket to this threads initial intentions... So getting back on topic.. DAMN that bike looks sweet... however... at 65 mpg with my ninjette... its gonna be hard for me to pay triple for something that only gets me 60 to 100 miles in one direction... but jump the total trip miles to 200... and we may have a winner...

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ninja3575

Yeah... so battery powered bikes are on the horizon ... but are they really "GREEN" ??? Well the obvious answer is yes since they don't consume fossil fuels, which is true.. but theres always a trade off.

Ok... my argument will seem a little diminished without practical numbers to work with but given our already over-burdened electrical grid... Where are we gonna get all the extra power necessary to power the potential boon in electric hybrids and pure electric vehicles?? ... Where does the vast majority of electricity come from? more specifically... how is electricity generated?

The Answer is.... WE BURN COAL !! COAL is the second largest pollutant, in terms of Green house gases, in the US !! Large amounts of CO2 gases are generated to feed our ELECTRIC needs here in the states...

So switching to electric vehicles reduces carbon emissions via fossil fuel burn off... but it is offset by an increase in consumer consumption of electricity... electricity that is produced by burning Coal ... and we have an incredible amount of coal here in the US...

Damn, i'm being such a wet blanket to this threads initial intentions... So getting back on topic.. DAMN that bike looks sweet... however... at 65 mpg with my ninjette... its gonna be hard for me to pay triple for something that only gets me 60 to 100 miles in one direction... but jump the total trip miles to 200... and we may have a winner...

You're right... we do have a lot of coal. Last time I checked, being less reliant on other countries for your energy needs was a good thing.

Also, CO2 is not a pollutant. Some say that more CO2 was released in the eruption of Mt. St. Helens than in all fossil fuels man has ever consumed. Though I kinda doubt that, CO2 is completely natural and NOT a pollutant.

[Eva689]

Originally Posted by CZroe

You're right... we do have a lot of coal. Last time I checked, being less reliant on other countries for your energy needs was a good thing.

Also, CO2 is not a pollutant. Some say that more CO2 was released in the eruption of Mt. St. Helens than in all fossil fuels man has ever consumed. Though I kinda doubt that, CO2 is completely natural and NOT a pollutant.

CO2 IS a greenhouse gas. Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) is also a volcanic gas. It is also natural. It just so happens to be poisonous.

...Not all natural things are good for you/me/Earth.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by ninja3575

Yeah... so battery powered bikes are on the horizon ... but are they really "GREEN" ??? Well the obvious answer is yes since they don't consume fossil fuels, which is true.. but theres always a trade off.

Ok... my argument will seem a little diminished without practical numbers to work with but given our already over-burdened electrical grid... Where are we gonna get all the extra power necessary to power the potential boon in electric hybrids and pure electric vehicles?? ... Where does the vast majority of electricity come from? more specifically... how is electricity generated?

The Answer is.... WE BURN COAL !! COAL is the second largest pollutant, in terms of Green house gases, in the US !! Large amounts of CO2 gases are generated to feed our ELECTRIC needs here in the states...

So switching to electric vehicles reduces carbon emissions via fossil fuel burn off... but it is offset by an increase in consumer consumption of electricity... electricity that is produced by burning Coal ... and we have an incredible amount of coal here in the US...

Damn, i'm being such a wet blanket to this threads initial intentions... So getting back on topic.. DAMN that bike looks sweet... however... at 65 mpg with my ninjette... its gonna be hard for me to pay triple for something that only gets me 60 to 100 miles in one direction... but jump the total trip miles to 200... and we may have a winner...

WRT the generation of CO2 and HC consumption from transportation, you have to consider complete end to end, not just the end or the beginning. In a bike, you're lucky to get in the low to mid 20% efficiency conversion of stored energy to actual work, namely moving the bike and your butt some given distance. Most of the 70%+ of the fuel's energy is lost as wasted heat out the exhaust and out the radiator, with a small amount lost through radiant heating from the engine block. Then to make matters worse, the small amount of energy you did convert into motion is lost as brake rotor heat after only being used one time.

Fixed electrical generating plants are far more efficient because they can use hardware and technologies that are just too big and complex to use in a mobile power plant. The conversion of electricity to motion in a bike or car is far more efficient, upwards of 90% in some cases. Even counting transmission line losses and other issues, you can get more miles for a given amount of stored chemical energy by using fixed generation and batteries than you can burning the same amount of fuel directly in a mobile motor.

What's more, you can do the one thing with batteries that you cannot do (with any practical scheme) any other way: Regenerative braking. With that, what you are doing in essence is recapturing braking energy to reuse again later, instead of just seeing it drift away as heated air.

From a larger picture standpoint, going full EV gives us the ability to use a variety of energy sources, many of which can be very carbon-neutral and far less damaging to our only habitat. If you're burning fuel directly in a vehicle you're fairly limited in what you can do to make more fuel since it has to be fairly high in energy density (expensive to make) and relatively safe to transport and store in massive quantities (rules out liquid hydrogen, etc).

Electricity can do for the transportation energy infrastructure what the Dollar, a universal currency in many senses, did for the financial infrastructure of this nation. Breaking the direct connection between hydrocarbons and transportation will be, IMHO, one of the most important things we can do to ensure our long-term survival as a nation and culture.