Target Fixation

[Jerry]

Any good thoughts on exersises or practice routines for getting over target fixation? You know, where you see a hazard, fixate on the hazard, then drive right toward it...

I'm kinda thinking mostly about road surface hazards, but any other angles are certainly welcome.

I've found that having a high visual horizon is helpful in avoiding road hazards, but sometimes they show up suddenly. I've got a couple of suggestion for practice, but was hoping for fresh ideas first...

Anybody have a practice exercise they like for this?

[headshrink]

Yes, mount your DVD player above your gauges so you don't have to move your head to watch it.

LOL - sorry, i get sarcastic when it gets late...

[Mista Bob]

When I was first starting this is what worked for me.
Whenever I'd start to target fixate on something, I found reminding myself to "look where you want to go" as it was happening helped a lot.

After awhile it becomes natural to look where you want to go and not fixate on stuff (where you don't want to go!).

[headshrink]

Getting serious now.... I think about keeping my head on a "swivel." Just like when I learned to drive, I always keep my head/eyes moving.... mirror, scan, mirror, scan, mirror, scan...... What was that we all learned in the MSF course? SEE = Search, Evaluate, Execute. Basically, observe everything, think how they might all try to kill you, and how you will avoid death and/or dismemberment.... you do that and you won't target fixate. Well, unless you get scarred, piss your pants, and run off the side of a cliff or into the side of a barn.

[Greg_E]

Sorry no tips, but it is a hard habit to break.

[Racer x]

Do you have a mountain bikes? I found that target fixation is a real problem off road . It made me aware of it in the first place .I learned to look for the clear path . The bike will go where you look under high stress situations. So practice is good . Just ride normal and try to use the peripheral more. It is safer on a bicycle out of traffic at first.

[headshrink]

Wow, I never really noticed this on a bicycle. I guess it would make since for anything really. I don't think I have personally experienced a significant problem with this on any kind of bike, maybe a few times in the car. I think I naturally look where I want to go, I don't know.

I have noticed that on a motorcycle I have a tendency to keep my head still and move my eyes, unless changing lanes, turning sharp, etc. I have gotten MUCH better with moving my head from when I started, and I think a lot of it was due to getting used to wearing a full-faced helmet, especially with the aerodynamics at hwy speed. Another thing I have recently noticed is that while on freeway cloverleafs, I am naturally turning, and am doing it technically correct, but sometimes if I'm pushing it and feel a little vulnerable, I want to look back in front to see what is immediately infront of me.... so I dart back and forth if I must.

The biggest problem I have noticed that I do still do is with a little lane drifting when checking my mirrors on the hwy. This is usually more when trying to look for cops then just checking for general situational awareness. It isn't huge, but it is there.

[Racer x]

one time I was going down a hill on a mountain bike about 15 or 20 mph . it was a fire road kinda thing and all the rocks are yellow or black . There was one white rock and I looked at it wondering why that was the only white rock around . I nailed it with my rear wheel and blew out my tire. Road and mountain bicycle riding have all sort of advantages that relate to motorcycling

[Greg_E]

It's also often worse at night when you fixate one the headlight beam ahead and little objects that pop up in your path.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by Greg_E

It's also often worse at night when you fixate one the headlight beam ahead and little objects that pop up in your path.

That is the worst . if you do get caught in headlight at least try to close one eye . That will shorten the time it takes to see after the car lights are gone.

[minuslars]

With regard to the headlight, I've developed a habit of looking away from the light toward the right side of the road and using my peripheral vision to navigate. This was actually a suggestion from driver's ed back in high school with regard to high beams Practice this at all times, when caging, when walking, when riding, whenever.

Practice swerving. Practice swerving. Every time you see come up on a manhole (or pothole, especially), practice swerving around it (when it's safe to do so) and practice looking at your intended path. It took me a long time just to move my gaze away from the sewer entrances and I'd just go right over them, but I'm getting better.
You can also swerve around imaginary obstacles or painted marks on the road like HOV markers, directional arrows, lettering, etc. It's all legit.

Mountain biking also helps

[Greg_E]

Actually I was thinking of fixating on things lit by my bike headlight. It's hard enough to stop the fixation during the day, then add in the tunnel view from a typical bike light and it is much to easy to fixate on the road right in front of you and stop looking down the road.


Yeah #200 for me.

[OldGuy]

The SEE tip (SEE = Search, Evaluate, Execute) is a good way to start. Having come from road and mountain bikes I learned the hazards of target fixation long ago. On my Ninja I have found that if I try to do four things it helps me be a more defensive rider and minimizes the time that I might have target fixation. 1) try to see what is happening several hundred feet in front of me 2/3) what is to the left and right of me and 4) what is behind me. Constantly update what is going on and if you need to take some type of evasive action you already know what is around you.

This morning was a good example for me on my commute to the office. Three lanes of one way traveling about 35-40 mph. I'm in the middle lane and knew the right lane had traffic and no holes, I had about three car lengths behind me, and a guy on the left that I knew had seen me because we had made eye contract. Up ahead about a half block the brake lights start coming on and I could see there was a construction truck double parked to unload sheet rock. All of a sudden my lane is going dead stop.

Nailed the brakes once, verified the guy behind was responding and nailed them again both times hard enough that we got tire sequel from the 35-40 we started at. With out really thinking the clutch was in and the bike down shifted to first so that I never had to put a foot down as things started to move again.

Always be thinking what could I do if . . .it will keep the mind focused on the ride and not "other things".

Have fun.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by minuslars

Practice swerving. Practice swerving. Every time you see come up on a manhole (or pothole, especially), practice swerving around it (when it's safe to do so) and practice looking at your intended path. It took me a long time just to move my gaze away from the sewer entrances and I'd just go right over them, but I'm getting better.
You can also swerve around imaginary obstacles or painted marks on the road like HOV markers, directional arrows, lettering, etc. It's all legit.

Mountain biking also helps

I like this one A LOT. It's not something you want to do in city traffic, maybe, but I think we so often get into "the ride," that we don't prepare for the unexpected....and swerving is one way out of these situations.

I get lots of lonely road/late at night riding time, and I love trying to "slalom" through dotted center lines and especially reflectors.....every two at 55-60 is tough.

one thing I've found in doing this is that it really drives my visual horizon down....I start looking at the 2-3 lines or dots in front of me...and then I start hitting them. It really takes some effort to keep looking ahead...when I do raise my eyes, however, I find I hit fewer dots...I'd say in this case not looking at the target works well.

Anybody got any thoughts on avoiding objects which appear right in your line on a curve? You know, you're carving the perfect arc, and suddenly, THERE'S A ROCK ON MY LINE!!! I'm not really asking about what to do when it happens, as this is situational, but anybody got an idea on practicing changing lines mid-curve?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Jerry

Anybody got any thoughts on avoiding objects which appear right in your line on a curve? You know, you're carving the perfect arc, and suddenly, THERE'S A ROCK ON MY LINE!!! I'm not really asking about what to do when it happens, as this is situational, but anybody got an idea on practicing changing lines mid-curve?

Never ride 100% on the street. Always leave some reserve for evasive manuevers. If you're not at 100% (or close to it), you should be able to change lines easily.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by kkim

Never ride 100% on the street. Always leave some reserve for evasive manuevers. If you're not at 100% (or close to it), you should be able to change lines easily.

Another Pearl, to be sure...but how do you prepare....?

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by Jerry

Another Pearl, to be sure...but how do you prepare....?

Be the bike and ride, ride, ride . . .

[kkim]

slow down and try that maneuver that you're concerned about. for example, change your line midway through the corner at a lower speed so you gain confidence on how the bike feels doing so. confidence, and having the knowledge of what the limits of your bike are, adds greatly to your mindset while riding. crashing (or fear) is never a part of the equation when you are in total control.

when I wanted to learn how to drive a vehicle fast up and down the mountain to work over the last 30 odd years, I learned my lessons the hard way. Totaled a car by over driving the conditions and wound up rolling down the side of the mountain. Luckily for me, the drop was only 30-40 ft. There are places that the drop offs are several hundred feet, if not more.

At that young age, I knew everything and couldn't understand what I had done to cause that crash.

My strategy after that was to slow down and work the hill in sections. It's the mental mistakes that leads to failure. No one can ride/drive 100% for long periods of time before a mistake catches them. If they can, they are paid large sums of money by race teams and you can see them on TV.

I would work a section at a time over and over, till I gain confidence on how the car would react... changing lines, being able to have precise control so I could change lanes without hitting the DOT BOTs on the road. As the experience and confidence grew, speed naturally followed. Most think that speed will lead them to be better and more experienced, when it's the exact opposite that is true. Gain confidence and experience and speed will naturally follow. Not only that, but it will make you a much safer driver. I am a definite supporter of learning at the track, if you have that luxury.

After learning to drive that mountain in sports cars, the switch over to riding a motorcycle up and down was eye opening. There was so much more room that changing lines midcorner was like having a freeway to maneuver on. Granted, I end up riding faster now that the road seems "wider", but like I said, always leave some riding ability in reserve. I ride no more that 75-80% of what I feel I'm capable of. On public roads you need to be ready for anything.

One exercise I do is divide my lane into 3 sections... left, middle and right. I have trained myself to ride in only the left section of my lane the entire way up the mountain. It teaches you to be precise in your bike placement and it also forces you to keep your relative speed down to make your lines. If you find yourself unable to keep your intended line, slow down until you learn how to do so. Once you can ride your line with precision, the comfort and confidence to do that section a bit faster next time comes naturally. If you ride the same roads everyday, it helps to improve your riding skills as you are familiar with the road layout.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by kkim

slow down and try that maneuver that you're concerned about. for example, change your line midway through the corner at a lower speed so you gain confidence on how the bike feels doing so.

Good one, I'd change out the word "try" with "practice."

Originally Posted by kkim

There are places that the drop offs are several hundred feet, if not more.

I feel ya there, our commutes are pretty similar. I go up 6500 feet from my house to work.

Originally Posted by kkim

It's the mental mistakes that leads to failure. No one can ride/drive 100% for long periods of time before a mistake catches them. If they can, they are paid large sums of money by race teams and you can see them on TV.

Sage advice there.

Originally Posted by kkim

I am a definite supporter of learning at the track, if you have that luxury.

I don't really, but if I did, I'd rent a bike, also.

Originally Posted by kkim

. I have trained myself to ride in only the left section of my lane the entire way up the mountain. It teaches you to be precise in your bike placement and it also forces you to keep your relative speed down to make your lines.

I do the same thing, mostly to avoid the oil stripe, the trick is also to stay off the double yellow as well.

Originally Posted by kkim

If you find yourself unable to keep your intended line, slow down until you learn how to do so.

A "Universal Motorcycling Truth" there
Wish everyone could learn this without having to experience it, ya know?

Originally Posted by kkim

If you ride the same roads everyday, it helps to improve your riding skills as you are familiar with the road layout.

I do ride the same road everyday, and I'm not so sure about this...I worry that my "road knowledge" covers up some bad habits...I do know that I'm not nearly as good/fast on roads I don't know.

At the same time, knowing the road intimately does give me the opportunity to try different lines, apexes, speeds, gears, etc., so that may be something...I'd call that a wash...especially for those who aren't so lucky as to have a long mountain commute.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Jerry

I do ride the same road everyday, and I'm not so sure about this...I worry that my "road knowledge" covers up some bad habits...I do know that I'm not nearly as good/fast on roads I don't know.

At the same time, knowing the road intimately does give me the opportunity to try different lines, apexes, speeds, gears, etc., so that may be something...I'd call that a wash...especially for those who aren't so lucky as to have a long mountain commute.

I may have misstated what I meant to say. Learning/knowing the road allows you to spend more of your $10.00 worth of attention on the task of improving techniques instead of worrying about what's around the next corner. It's not that you ignore what's coming up, but are more relaxed about the upcoming turn and what lays beyond. What bad habits do you suspect are being covered up?

Saying that, I ride any road alert to changing road surface conditions which dictates my riding speed. There are many places where the road can be absolutely dry, but wet/damp under some shaded corner from a rain that had happened earlier in the day. Don't assume the road surface is always the same or that it will never change. Treat it as an always changing variable and be alert for those changes.

[HKr1]

Nice

quoting

Jerry

[Jerry]

The mantra is always "Look where you want to go," and that works....

My problem is that my targets tend to show up around blind curves, and I only have a second or two to do something.

My experience in this has been that I will look at the target. Call it reflex, or whatever, it's the way my brain reacts....and then I would hit the rock.

I practiced swerving, I tried looking away. When the moment of truth hits, however, I have a real hard time tearing my eyes away from that rock in my line....

So here's my recent practice, and it seems to have some benefits....

I've been practicing not hitting objects, while entirely focused on them.

As I'm driving along, I pick something about two seconds down "my line" and fixate on it. Then I try not to hit it. A spot on the pavement, a BOTS DOT, a leaf, something...stare it down, and try not to hit it.

I feel this is developing a different skill..."Not going where you are looking." To be sure, this is not a method for riding in general, but a good skill to have, I think.

Another method, which has helped as well, is to ride along looking off to one side or another, using my peripheral vision to keep me on line.

Just tossing out some ideas, they've been working for me.

[CC Cowboy]

This is the best example of target fixation I've ever seen.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Although it looks like a target that the ride rider hits, it is actually a marker for where to be on the track. Rider and bike ends up OK so it is funny to watch. It could have ended up differently.

[Sailariel]

Target fixation can be a real issue. I think that Kelly`s insight is spot on. Dividing a lane into three sectors makes sense. When I ride and see a pothole or road kill, I immediately look at the fog line or the traffic line--fog line when going straight and traffic line when in a curve. So far it has worked for me. I also think that bicycling has helped a lot. I still put more miles on my bicycle than on the Ninja.

[zartan]

Problem:
I notice when I start to get tired or cold I hunch my shoulders up and then stop turning my head, making it easier to fixate and buggers up my lines for sure.


Solution > Drop shoulders back.... take a break.
I have to remember to breathe , drop shoulders, breathe... you know mantra

[Nemesis]

1) Pick a good race vid - preferably FPV

2) Focus on looking through the turn, not on the riders in the vid

3) Pretend you're the rider: acknowledge their existence, space, and speed relative to yours but don't focus on them! Not even once.

4) Watch it over, and over, and over.


This helped me train my eyes to look through the turn, and not fixate on objects before and around me.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

This is the best example of target fixation I've ever seen.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Although it looks like a target that the ride rider hits, it is actually a marker for where to be on the track. Rider and bike ends up OK so it is funny to watch. It could have ended up differently.

Personally, I think this one is the best: Sorry, embedding disabled by video poster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PZ4Jl02HJc

[edwinmcq]

I never ride on anything less than 24 ounces of coffee. This way I can't pay attention to anything longer than 1/10 a second... I'm sorry what was this thread about?

[karlosdajackal]

I don't believe in target fixation, if I look over my shoulder when changing lanes, or I look to my left or right at some nice scenery i don't loose control of a bike or a car because i'm aware of the controls and the inputs i'm giving.

The same way you can look somewhere else and see the "target" in your peripheral vision, it also works the other way around, I can quite happily look at the "target" and see my exit in my peripheral vision. I don't think either example is very good both are on tracks both are pushing and got distracted.

The first guy hit that sign not because he fixated on it, but because he was offline on the dust and pushing you can see the back wheel get loose, he lays down a black line from the rear wheel, regains it, lays down another line from the back wheel and the when it grips the 2nd time it starts to shake, after that he is just hanging on.

The second one is better but you'll notice the bike with the camera on it is going plenty fast in the turn, but she picks up the bike as soon as the smoke starts (0:44) we all know if your on the limit flat out in a turn and then you decided to pick up the bike next time around at the same speed your not going to make the turn. From 0:46 until impact you can't see anything but dust, looks to me like she knew she would not make the turn, picked it up and tried slow it down on the gravel (kinda like Nicky Hayden had to do at Philip island earlier today). With slick tyres you can't turn on gravel, it was just unfortunate when the dust cleared she was on a crash course with the bike in front.

Sorry guys but if you think those vids are "target fixation" your wrong, if you don't want to crash like that you should practice not sliding and regaining rear traction mid turn, and also not picking up the bike if you see someone crash on your racing line. Keep going as they defiantly won't be on your line by the time you reach them (your turning there crashing in other words your going in different directions)

[Sailariel]

Karl, I certainly agree with aiming for the out of control object in front of you. I recall several years ago travelling on the interstate, when a pickup truck about 100 meters in front of me shed a refrigerator he was carrying. I aimed my car at the refrigerator. By the time I got there, the fridge was gone. Had I stayed my course, I would have had a problem.

[CRXTrek]

[addy126]

I find group riding in formation lends itself to the "target fixation" factor. I have to constantly remind myself not to watch the guy/gal in front of me (staggered formation). I try to ensure the 2 to 3 second interval, and look past that person in my line of sight whether it be left, right, or 2 riders ahead of them. Its so easy to be lulled into a sense of watching right ahead of you that when formation needs to slow up quickly, you can very easily miss the cues and ride up on them..... its a constant mental reminder to not fixate during these events.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

IThe first guy hit that sign not because he fixated on it, but because he was offline on the dust and pushing you can see the back wheel get loose, he lays down a black line from the rear wheel, regains it, lays down another line from the back wheel and the when it grips the 2nd time it starts to shake, after that he is just hanging on.

Jackal, this was a play on words. The guy hit the target (head first) while crashing. I was pitted with him and believe me he was fixated on that target once he went down.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by addy126

I find group riding in formation lends itself to the "target fixation" factor. I have to constantly remind myself not to watch the guy/gal in front of me (staggered formation). I try to ensure the 2 to 3 second interval, and look past that person in my line of sight whether it be left, right, or 2 riders ahead of them. Its so easy to be lulled into a sense of watching right ahead of you that when formation needs to slow up quickly, you can very easily miss the cues and ride up on them..... its a constant mental reminder to not fixate during these events.

Thanks for mentioning that. Although I don't get the opportunity very often, my experience is consistant with this statement, as I find riding with a buddy a little more taxing because of this. Granted, I prefer to ride with a buddy, but it requires a lot more mental energy to break the "fixation," watch ahead, and such.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Jackal, this was a play on words. The guy hit the target (head first) while crashing. I was pitted with him and believe me he was fixated on that target once he went down.

So you don't think the fact he spun up the rear while turning, regained traction, spun it up again and regaining traction of a bike that was bucking and out of control had anything to do with it? Like I said its clear from the video once that happened he was out of control and crashed. When the bike started shaking like that the bike went where it wanted to go not where he wanted it to go, and when it was on the gravel it was only ever going to go in a straight line or start tumbling if he tried to turn it.

If he wants to believe its target fixation well that does not surprise me, he is hardly going to admit to getting it wrong and recovering it only to get it wrong again. Target fixation is a handy excuse that lets him off the hook. Even if he does not admit it was his fault I hope he looks at how he rode that turn and at least understands it was his over aggressive double snap on/off throttle with black lines of rubber to prove it mid turn that caused the crash. If he does not understand that he will be crashing again, and again, and again...

If you know him, you owe it to him to point that out to him, even if he doesn't like it it might save him another "target fixation" incident

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

I don't believe in target fixation,

I do, I've experienced it.

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

if I look over my shoulder when changing lanes, or I look to my left or right at some nice scenery i don't loose control of a bike or a car because i'm aware of the controls and the inputs i'm giving.

Not the same thing...at all. "Target Fixation," for me, is regarding sudden, surprise objects, in your immediate path...you know, the kind where you have to react quickly. I think most motorcyclist would agree that "fixating" on the object increases the odds of hitting said object.

I was just looking to get some ideas from folks who've experienced it, and have developed some exercises to help with overcoming it.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by Jerry

I do, I've experienced it.

Not the same thing...at all. "Target Fixation," for me, is regarding sudden, surprise objects, in your immediate path...you know, the kind where you have to react quickly. I think most motorcyclist would agree that "fixating" on the object increases the odds of hitting said object.

I was just looking to get some ideas from folks who've experienced it, and have developed some exercises to help with overcoming it.

Like rocks, puddles of oil, small animals, yea I've seen them all appear suddenly and I just drive around them. Same way if I'm walking and someone jumps out in front of my I manage to get around them without thinking about it.

I don't target fixate when I walk, or when I drive my cage, or when I ride my bicycle so why would I target fixate when I'm on a motorbike? None of those examples where target fixation, the 3rd one was clearly a guy who never rode a bike before. I put my mum in a car and she did the same thing she went straight for a wall and paniced and took her hands and feet of the controls and let the car hit that wall, that's not target fixation, that's panic paralysis, fight or flight response or as its also know "fight or freeze response"

The last guy froze because he realised he was on a bike heading for a tree and he didn't know what to do so he did nothing and hit the tree.

My point is, if you are trying to avoid such situations first you need to understand what exactly it is your trying to avoid and clearly a lot of people here don't understand the issues and are throwing the blanket term "target fixation" over 3 very different issues.
1. poor riding spinning up and regaining traction multiple times mid corner
2. picking up the bike mid turn when on the limit
3. putting someone with no gear on and no riding experience on a bike and expecting them to know what to do


Now lets get to your question. To be honest Jerry to avoid something you first have to see what it is your avoiding, while its always better to look ahead and not on the road just in front of you front wheel you need to keep an eye on both.

I treat my lane as 4 lanes, we drive on the left over here, so from the left of the lane to the right is

| 1 2 3 4 |CTR| 4 3 2 1 |
| M I N E |CTR| T H E M|
^ ^ ^

• Usually on a straight road I would be in position 2
• If about to take a left bend I would move to position 3 for better visibility of the turn and to make me more visible to potentially oncoming traffic.
• position 1 is only used when approaching a right I have perfect visibility around and no junk in the gutter.
• position 4 is only used when approach a left curve and I have perfect visibility and no oncoming traffic

Now here is where it gets easy, your in position 2, you see an unexpected pothole appear in position 2, so you move to position 3, after the obstacle you move back. If you where looking ahead and where about to take a right you might temporarily move to 1, and then back towards 2. It is that easy and should be that easy. If you can't change positions for the oncoming road you should not be riding a bike on the road yet.

1 is practically on the edge of the road is may be full of junk so its up to you when you use it, 4 is right beside the centre line so only use when you know you have no oncoming traffic as you have to leave room for cars in that lane to wander out of there lane (it happens)

By the way a curve means a curve, you are not stopping mid curve so you can take a good line around it. A turn at a junction is a different beast, if you are indicating right to make a right turn, then you should move over to the right, if your indicating left to go left, you should move over to the left. I had to answer 40 questions on stuff like this, road signs, rules of the road, potential hazards and other things before I could get my learners permit. To pass you need 35 out of 40, I got 40/40 their are 900+ potential questions.

If you constantly are using lane positioning correctly, then a sudden obstacle on the road will be no issue to you, moving to another position will be second nature. Also you will be able to ride faster and safer if you take the same approach on "twisties" (we call them roads over here )