Foamy Oil in Sight Glass???

[ScorpionNinja]

Hi,

Last week, i drained out the Rotella T 5w-40 I used when i winterized my bike. It sat all winter and never started.

Spring came, i brought it outta storage. I didnt change the oil again, BAH why? So i put about 300-400 miles on it in the last 6 weeks.
The Oil NEVER looked Foamy in the sight glass.

So, back to last week...

So I drained the Oil removing the Oil drain plug AND I dropped out the Oil filter and set it aside on a clean rag. I let the bike sit for 1 hour (Perfectly Vertical)

I wiped the housing of both the Oil drain plug & Oil filter clean with a clean shop rag. I then RE-USED the Oil filter, all parts correctly in order/etc, and torqued 14.5 ft lbs.
I then put the Oil drain plug back in, torqued that to 14.5 ft lbs.

I then filled my bike with AMSOIL Advanced Synthetic 10w-40.
I filled it up to the upper line, then let the bike run for 20secs and shut it off. Let it sit for 5mins and looked, it was on the lower mark, so i filled it up topping it off 3/4 of the way up to the Upper mark in the sight glass.
I let the bike run for another 30 secs, then shut it off, sit 5 mins and Recheck!
Sight glass was still just a hair Under the Upper mark. So

Ive rode around 120 miles since last week and TODAY i noticed when i checked the sight glass... the oils like FOAMY??? WTF???

I reused the Wix filter, but dude i put that new one in when i winterized it and the bike sat all winter NEVER ran. So I didnt bother putting a new one in this Spring when i brought it outta storage.

When i had the filter out, i let the excess ooze off for the 1 hour the bike was draining!

So is this due to a very very slight mixing of the Rotella T 5w-40 and AMSOIL 10w-40?

Or is this a sign of Moisture in the engine, that worked its way into the Oil?


I just bought and put in a K&N Air filter (stock air box still) and ive had some Issue with it not sitting FLUSH after i fully push it in (its in correctly too) and putting the 3 bolts back on, with the cover moving around abit while fighting with the 3 bolts!

Ive taken the K&N out and in, 3x but it just wont sit flush like the stock air filter did.

So has water/moisture gotten into the engine this way causing the FOAMY OIL in sight glass???

I could take PICs this weekend when the weather is nice enuff!
Sight glass & K&N filter in/out.

[kevlar250]

How long are your rides? It sounds like they're short and the engines not warming up to burn off the moisture.

[CZroe]

I heard elsewhere that synth and dino don't mix properly (don't make your own "blend," IOW), creating a "foamy texture." I also heard that most "full synths" are actually high grade dino + additives with matching specifications, so perhaps the Rotella T remaining in your reused filter isn't mixing so well?

[Samer]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I heard elsewhere that synth and dino don't mix properly (don't make your own "blend," IOW), creating a "foamy texture." I also heard that most "full synths" are actually high grade dino + additives with matching specifications, so perhaps the Rotella T remaining in your reused filter isn't mixing so well?

I'm quite certain that synthetic and conventional oils mix fine. In fact, blends are sold in stores.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Samer

I'm quite certain that synthetic and conventional oils mix fine. In fact, blends are sold in stores.

Exactly, but that information came from people telling me that I couldn't just mix them to make my own blends despite pre-mixed semi-synth blends existing (my sister's Ford Taurus was drinking oil and she was mixing). That's what I was talking about. They said that the semi-synth blends are engineered differently. I'm not vouching for that info, it's just what I was told on Anandtech's car forums and thought it relevant, especially considering that he did reuse the filter and described a foamy texture.

[randomwalk101]

Comment retracted. My mama said if I have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

[mikedabike64]

I had alot of foaming using the rotella, apparently people use it all the time with no problems, I did the same thing except changed the filter and ran amsoil 10w40 and no foam is present. The airation scared me away from the rotella. Again people use it all the time. I just did not want to worry so I switched.

[Momaru]

Pics would be good.
Sometimes a little moisture will condense from the air in your engine (having it sit open for an hour+ would be plenty of time for the air to circulate), but a good long ride should take care of it as Kevin mentioned. Showed up as a milky film on the sight glass in my case.

Last time I actually saw foaming oil was my 20-year old Ranger mixing about a cup of antifreeze a day with the oil.

[ScorpionNinja]

To think of it, the last week since i changed just the oil, Ive done mostly short rides to work and home.
Both oils are Synthetic, not 1 is Dino. Read* OP.

Well ill put up PICs this weekend b4 i ride it.

Then ill put up PICs after this weekend, afew rides and events planned this weekend, so i should be able to put like 200 miles on it!
And see if the FOAMY-ness goes away.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ScorpionNinja

To think of it, the last week since i changed just the oil, Ive done mostly short rides to work and home.
Both oils are Synthetic, not 1 is Dino. Read* OP.

I did read the OP. Like I said, some synthetics are made from dino oil and others are not.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

They are allowed to call it "Full Synth" due to matching performance characteristics. It doesn't mean that it has to be able to mix. Note, the same article says that AMSOIL is a true synthetic and Rotella is a Group III dino + additives to make it "full synthetic" performance.

I'm just repeating things that I've heard. I actually have no idea what I'm talking about, I am just raising concerns for you to research on your own. For instance, digging that up in my own defense was more work than I wanted to do, so you can go see if the "mixing synth and dino causes foaming" bit from Anandtech's car talk forum is bunk or not.

[mrlmd]

Can I ask you why you think it was necessary to change again the fresh oil you put into the bike before you stored it for the winter? Does Kawasaki recommend this for the new-gens? I have had many boats, both gas and diesel, have stored many cars for prolonged periods, changed the oil before laying them up, and have never re-changed unused oil again before putting any of them back into service, never heard this recommended by any manufacturer or mechanic, and have never had nor heard of a problem from doing it this way. And the marine environment has a lot more moisture in the air than does a garage where a motorcycle is stored. To me, this seems like a waste of time, energy, money and resources and do not think it accomplishes anything. Are you doing this because you think moisture gets into the oil during storage or somehow gets contaminated sitting in the engine? Teach me something.

[BlueRaven]

The exact thing happened to me when I warmed up the bike during my last oil change. I also let it drain for about an hour. I figure some humidity got in just enough to have a milky fog on my sight glass. Never happened again. I used Rotella for the first time and with a new K&N oil filter.

[Sailariel]

B.R., The same thing happened on my bike. Moisture does accumulate during the long periods of non use in the winter. I warmed up the engine this Spring and changed the oil and filter. I then took a two hour ride and got the engine good and hot. When I got back, there was no gray residue in the engine. A little moisture should not hurt anything. (hoses that are neglected) are in my view, owner negligence.

[mrlmd]

And how does the "moisture" get in there?, the system is sealed.
The carb intake is the only thing that may be exposed to the outside air and that can easily be sealed up with a plastic bag if you are concerned about that opening into the carb. The only place for air to have access to the oil is through the oil filler neck, and that would only happen when you are filling it up, then you put the cap back on and it is sealed.
That foam you are looking at is more than likely air bubbles churned up into the oil, not water. Water mixed with oil is not so much foamy but has a lighter brownish color and the consistency of mayonnaise. There may have been some air pumped through the system 'till all the oil passages and the oil pump and filter are totally filled and running it for a while gets the air out. I don't believe for a second that is water mixed in with your oil. Drain it out again and let it settle, you will not find oil/water separating out.

On the other hand, it is advisable to totally fill the fuel tank when you store the bike (and put in Stabil or Seafoam) to make the air space in the tank as small as possible so there is no condensation of water vapor inside the cold tank, giving a few drops of water in the gas. The fuel tank is vented to the outside, the oil is not. It's a different situation and it is not necessary to drain and refill the oil again when you return the bike to service.

[Alex]

The system isn't sealed, there's crankcase venting. The moisture comes right from the air and condensed into the oil. Once the engine is taken up to operating temp and left there for awhile, most, if not all, such moisture makes its way out as vapor.

[mrlmd]

Does this bike have a PCV valve?
If so, then it's closed when the engine is off. So if the engine is not running, it's a sealed system.
If not, then my bad.
But I still doubt the foam is from water in the oil (from water vapor in the air that got into the warm engine while it was draining oil, open for an hour via the drain plug).

[Buffalony]

post a pic here of your oil level with the bike verticle. pre-ride and post-ride plz.

[ScorpionNinja]

UPDATE * * * * *



Ok, so today i pulled the bike out and checked it over for varies things,etc b4 a ride! -Gonna RAIN all day tomorrow-

Got the bike nice and vertical... looked at the sightglass....

Oil was nice and pretty.
NO FOAMY light brown bubbles floating on the top like last week.

I rode it for like 60 miles. Stopped to eat lunch, came back out and held the bike vertical and carefully...

Oil was nice and pretty.
NO FOAMY light brown bubbles floating on the top like last week.

So i can stop worrying!!!

Like ppl said, the light brown foamy bubbles floating on top line of the sightglass, mustve been due from "AIR" being trapped in after changing the Oil the other week.

mind you, my bike has sat for 4-5 days since i last saw the foamy bubbles the day and day AFTER i changed the oil!

[ScorpionNinja]

I also read that AMSOIL was the "first" oil company to actually produce/test the "FIRST" Synthetic motor oil in 1972??? Is that really true, or just BS?


Yea Czoe, somewhere i read too about some oils packaged as "Full Synthetic" are only like 10% synthetic, 90% dino aka Grade III Motor Oil.

and AMSOIL synthetics are supposed to be "Real Synthetic". Along with Mobil 1 and those others!

[kevlar250]

Yup, Amsoil's the real stuff and made in Wisconsin, home of cheese & Harleys!