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Old January 31st, 2021, 11:52 AM   #1
SibSerge
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How to properly set the steering stem nut?

Good afternoon everyone.

I had to replace my head bearings as mine became feeling notchy. As it turned out the bearings were overloaded by the whoever did the service last time) and that killed them prematurely (only 22k km on the bike)

I did check the procedure that is provided in the manual and it seem to me its not possible to set the load accurately using the approach specified in the manual. The problem lies I think in the design. When the steam nut is set to the optimal setting the nuts threads will be pushed against the top surface of the stem threads (head tube and the triple tree stem being vertical) by the resistive force of the bearing balls . When the top of the triple tree is installed and the top bolt is tightened to the specified torque it will push the lock nut against the bottom surface of the stem threads and thus preloading the bearings which is not good and it decreases their life. That seems to have killed my bearings The threads being fairly coarse will have some play due to tolerance. With this design the variance in the mating threads will determine the amount of preload when the. bolt is tightened.

On all my two wheeler vehicles (bicycles mostly) I try to set the loading force to be just enough to take out the slack without loading the bearings). Bicycle systems allow this pretty accurately as the loading force on the bearings and clamping force of handlebars holder are perpendicular to each other and, thus do not interfere with each other. That approach keeps my head bearings running for long times.


Now my question is whether the community found a quicker approach other than, tighten the nut to find the resistance , loosen it 1/X turn put the top on, tighten the bolt check if the slack or preload exist, , then wash rinse repeat...until no slack nor preload detected in the final assembly

Thanks again
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Old January 31st, 2021, 12:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SibSerge View Post
Now my question is whether the community found a quicker approach other than, tighten the nut to find the resistance , loosen it 1/X turn put the top on, tighten the bolt check if the slack or preload exist, , then wash rinse repeat...until no slack nor preload detected in the final assembly
That's the way I have always done it. If I felt a tiny bit of preload I'd probably leave it.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 02:19 PM   #3
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That's the way I have always done it. If I felt a tiny bit of preload I'd probably leave it.
Thank you Jim, deep inside I was still hoping a miracle shortcut exist. But I guess the miracle’s name here is “taking you time”.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 03:15 PM   #4
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I do same as with bicycle headset.

I set adjustable cup for no wiggle. As tested by grabbing fork-blades near sliders and wiggling up and down.

Then I install lock-ring. BUT i don't tighten lockring down on top of adjustable cup. I use two hook-ring tools and LOOSEN adjustable cup up while I tighten lockring down. This has effect of maintaining original adjustment.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 04:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I do same as with bicycle headset.

I set adjustable cup for no wiggle. As tested by grabbing fork-blades near sliders and wiggling up and down.

Then I install lock-ring. BUT i don't tighten lockring down on top of adjustable cup. I use two hook-ring tools and LOOSEN adjustable cup up while I tighten lockring down. This has effect of maintaining original adjustment.
Makes total sense. Your have the older style steerer tube , I assume?

I use a similar approach on my old Peugeot. Luckily they figured it out and in the new designs you can “preload” it with the headset cup through the bushings and the stem then just tighten the stem. Makes it a breeze to set.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 05:43 PM   #6
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Makes total sense. Your have the older style steerer tube , I assume?

I use a similar approach on my old Peugeot. Luckily they figured it out and in the new designs you can “preload” it with the headset cup through the bushings and the stem then just tighten the stem. Makes it a breeze to set.
Yup, most of my bikes have 1" threaded steerers (only one is newer threadless design with clamp-on stem). I prefer to use needle-bearing headsets for durability and light weight.



I've found, like many bike-mechanics, that if you hold adjustable-cup steady while tightening lock-nut, it increases bearing-preload slightly and ends up tighter than you want. So it's simple process to do push them together to lock and adjustment ends up perfect.

It's opposite on threaded adjustable-cup bottom-bracket. Tightening lock-ring pulls out adjustable-cup and loosens bearing. I use two tools and tighten both adjustable-cup and lock-ring simultaneously to maintain same bearing pre-load.


I think in your case, previous shop messed up because they didn't fully lock adjustable-cup and lockring fully together. This allowed upper triple-T nut to finish removing slack between them and increase bearing-preload. I use fishing-scale to pull on lower triple-T (90-degrees to rotation) to measure bearing-preload/drag before & after installing upper triple-T. Shouldn't be any difference.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 06:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Yup, most of my bikes have 1" threaded steerers (only one is newer threadless design with clamp-on stem). I prefer to use needle-bearing headsets for durability and light weight.



I've found, like many bike-mechanics, that if you hold adjustable-cup steady while tightening lock-nut, it increases bearing-preload slightly and ends up tighter than you want. So it's simple process to do push them together to lock and adjustment ends up perfect.

It's opposite on threaded adjustable-cup bottom-bracket. Tightening lock-ring pulls out adjustable-cup and loosens bearing. I use two tools and tighten both adjustable-cup and lock-ring simultaneously to maintain same bearing pre-load.


I think in your case, previous shop messed up because they didn't fully lock adjustable-cup and lockring fully together. This allowed upper triple-T nut to finish removing slack between them and increase bearing-preload. I use fishing-scale to pull on lower triple-T (90-degrees to rotation) to measure bearing-preload/drag before & after installing upper triple-T. Shouldn't be any difference.
Needle bearings are a blessing for this type of applications. Can 250 be converted to use them in the head tube instead of lose balls?

I read someone was suggesting fishing scales. What value do you consider being normal to start the rotation? I read somewhere 2lbs would be about right.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 06:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post

I think in your case, previous shop messed up because they didn't fully lock adjustable-cup and lockring fully together. This allowed upper triple-T nut to finish removing slack between them and increase bearing-preload. I use fishing-scale to pull on lower triple-T (90-degrees to rotation) to measure bearing-preload/drag before & after installing upper triple-T. Shouldn't be any difference.
I will try to check tomorrow if I can reach the nut when top triple is installed. Thanks for the hint
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Old February 1st, 2021, 03:33 AM   #9
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Easiest to just remove top triple-clamp.

Another thing you can do is only torque top nut on triple-clamp down to 25%. Then tighten fork-tube clamps down. Then finally 100% on top nut. This keeps triple-clamp from adding too much to bearing pre-load in case adjustable-cup and locking aren't fully clamped together.

All-Balls does make tapered roller-bearing kit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074LR5LTT/
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Old February 1st, 2021, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Easiest to just remove top triple-clamp.

Another thing you can do is only torque top nut on triple-clamp down to 25%. Then tighten fork-tube clamps down. Then finally 100% on top nut. This keeps triple-clamp from adding too much to bearing pre-load in case adjustable-cup and locking aren't fully clamped together.

All-Balls does make tapered roller-bearing kit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074LR5LTT/
Thanks ! Thats a great advice. I will try that. I am still rebuilding my fork putting new seals, I will try this approach when I install them back
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Old February 1st, 2021, 07:49 PM   #11
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I usually have a feel for how much play to leave before tightening the lock nut, then tighten it and it's OK. On a vehicle I'm not used to it may take a couple tries to get the feel that first time. Don't overthink it.
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Old February 5th, 2021, 01:45 PM   #12
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Thanks everyone!
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Old February 7th, 2021, 05:56 PM   #13
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Needle bearings are a blessing for this type of applications. Can 250 be converted to use them in the head tube instead of lose balls?
Yes. They work great and are a set-and-forget item once installed.
https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Steeri...ng_replacement
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Old February 8th, 2021, 02:19 PM   #14
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Yes. They work great and are a set-and-forget item once installed.
https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Steeri...ng_replacement
Thank you !
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Old March 9th, 2021, 04:31 PM   #15
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New bearings made so much difference.

Low speed maneuvering is not a pain anymore. It feels so much smoother. I guess with no notches on the races the trail can do it's job properly.
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