Tune up / Restoration questions - long post

[Tommy]

So my 250 needs some attention. Ive had it for about a week now, and put around 200 miles on it (having a blast btw) and this post shows what I know/need to fix so far.

First a little back ground - I have none... who knows when the last of anything was done besides oil change.

Second - current condtion/known issues

The PO decided it would be cool to remove the baffles from the mufflers, therefore its loud as crap.

The bike is a bit of a pain to get running. When the engine is cold, it will only start at full choke. (outside temp has been in the 80's) Then, when it does start, it wants to idle at 6k. After a few minutes fiddling with the choke, and getting it warmed up, it will then idle at around 3k with probably 75% choke, and after about 10 minutes of riding, it will run and start without choke, but still idles at 3k. If it sits for more than 15 minutes or so, I will have to give it full choke to restart.

I know the PO messed with the carbs prior to me purchasing it, trying to get it to idle better, so im sure they're out of wack.

Now the questions -

1 - I want to pull the carbs, give them a good scrub down and resync them, reset the idle/mixture. I understand when installing an aftermarket exhaust, you need to rejet the carbs - Would having baffle-less mufflers have the same effect on the mixture? IE - baffleless mufflers make it run leaner like an aftermarket exhaust?

If so, I would assume i should wait till I replace the mufflers to start trying to fix the carb/idle/start issues?

2 - My dad is kinda worried about the bouncing idle when its cold. It will bounce maybe 300rpm. (doesnt really do it when its warm) What can cause this? He believes it could be an electrical issue, I figure its related to the carbs. Are there electrical problems that could cause this?

3 - Valve adjustments. While ive got everything apart, I figure its worth the effort to go ahead and adjust them, but what are the symptoms of them being out of spec?

4 - Neutral switch - mine doesnt work. The light is always on. Suggestions?

5 - 1994 Ninja - I dont have a center stand - should I?

6 - Reserve - I ran out of gas while riding saturday. I was kinda confused because I look in the tank and I can see fuel. I tried switching the petcock over to reserve, but it still wouldnt start back up. I finally got it running again on the normal, and managed to limp it to a station a mile back down the road. I really didnt think I was out of gas, but I figured Id give it a shot, filled the tank and off I went again with no problem. Is this a problem with the Petcock or something else internal on the tank?

and finally - 7 - Another concern from my dad. He said to him it seemed that the clutch engaged kinda far in. Is there an adjustment that can be made to tighten it up, or is this a sign of a ailing clutch. Bike has 20k miles, how long do the clutches typically last under normal conditions?


thanks in advance for answering any of these.

[kkim]

Tommy... you have a PM.

[noche_caliente]

Hi Tommy,
I see that Kelly has taken care of you, but I'll throw in with the two that I can confidently answer
5) Yes, you should have a center stand, and I'm sure you can find one on e-bay if you really care about it.
7) You probably just need to adjust the clutch - I think Kelly has posted up how to do this somewhere, and it's also in my 600 mile service DIY, though it's for the new gen, I am pretty sure the procedure will be the same

~K

[Tommy]

Yea, he sent me the service manual - thanks.

Any more answers for the specifics on how its running?

[noche_caliente]

Kelly is the master with rich/lean, but I'd say you do have a problem with your jetting - in my opinion (remember I only have 650ish miles on my bike...) I would go ahead and get it jetted properly now and then rejet when you swap out the exhaust... since you already are free of the center stand, I would STRONGLY suggest the Area-P system that is coming out - you can't go wrong with them!

[kkim]

I would work on one thing at a time. I wouldn't do any mods till you determine the general health of the bike, otherwise you could be jetting to mask a potentially bigger problem.

The idle issue bothers me. The idle should be set to about 1500 rpm after the bike is fully warmed. reset it using the black knob on the side of the bike below the gas tank area. let me know if you're able to do that or not.

[nate-bama]

my bike was a bit of a basket case also being abused with no maintenance im sure. i just started one thing at a time thinking about what would hurt me most. tires, oil, valves , brakes whatever it is tackle it a problem at a time

[Tommy]

Well, I spent 6hrs tearing the bike apart.

I got the carb cleaned, floats adjusted, mixture set okish, idle set, valves adjusted.

Seems to be idling much better now, not perfect, but close enough for tonight. The carb really wasnt that bad, it was pretty clean inside. The valves werent bad either. Intake on the left cylinder was off a tad, but all the rest were in spec.

All in all, pretty decent night's worth of work.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Seems to be idling much better now, not perfect, but close enough for tonight.

what's keeping it from being perfect?

good work!

[Tommy]

keeping it from perfect? 6hrs of sweating, tired, and needing to put mufflers on it before I really try to dial it in.. Neighbors would have gotten a little angry if i kept up the reving with my hollowed out pipes.

[kkim]

lol... no. what is the idle doing that you are not satisfied with it.?

[Tommy]

oh..

Well, it will drop down and idle at 1500, but sometimes it will drop to 1500 and creep up to 2k-2200. Not sure what thats all about.

[kkim]

is the bike fully warmed up when you are setting the idle speed to 1500?

[Tommy]

yea, it was pretty warm. Ill play with the adjuster some more tomorrow when its not late and I wont wake the neighbors with the thing idling. its really loud....

[kkim]

just so you know... on a bike w/ stock jetting, it can take as long as 15 minutes for it to come up to temp.

I used to ride my bike around for like 15 minutes then come home to set the idle. good luck tomorrow.

[Verus Cidere]

I can answer a couple of questions for you here as I had a few of the same problems. Check your setscrew for the idle adjustment. Mine wasn't sticking correctly so my idle would get thrown off just by riding around. That might be one problem. Also, change out your spark plugs. I had faulty spark plugs when I got the bike, and it would have RPM jumps and bobbles and would even die on me for no reason at all. After I had them changed out (I'm still a newb on maintenance ) the problem was mostly solved. Try those two things. If it doesn't help, I have no idea!

[ASecretNinja]

I just wanted to add in that contrary to noche caliente's post, a center stand is absolutely NOT a must-have. In fact, with certain aftermarket exhausts (like mine) there is no room for it. Sure, it can be helpful for maintenance but it certainly is optional and completely up to personal preference. Don't waste time/money searching for one unless you OMFG have to get one for some reason.

[Tommy]

Thanks for the replies.

Gotta weird one though - 2nd night in a row, i try to start it at night, and it wont start. Like the battery is dead, tries to go, but ends up just clicking. Try it in the morning, starts right up.

What is that?? Guess i need a new battery, but just weird that its only acting dead at night.

[kkim]

what's the temp at night and in the morning?

regardless... sounds like you might need a new battery soon.

[Tommy]

yea, im sure. Ive just never seen a battery act this way.

Temp when i tried to start it tonight was about 82 and it wouldnt go. was about 85 earlier today when it did start, and about 3hrs before i tried to start it, i had just gotten back from a ride when it was like 95.

[Verus Cidere]

If you have to ride it for anything, get some help from somebody and push start it. Then just ride it around for a while to recharge the battery. Then, not only can you get where you need to go, but you can see if the battery really is draining itself. Good luck on the project!

[Tommy]

Thats another issue....

I think my clutch isnt fully engaging. if i put it in 1st, and hold the clutch, there's significant rolling resistance.

[kkim]

do you have the clutch cable properly adjusted?

[Verus Cidere]

I have the same problem. I got a little embarrassed and a little freaked out a couple weeks ago 'cause I forgot my key in my bike and it was still on after a ride. My headlight and things were still on, totally draining my battery. When I tried to push start it, I had a lot of resistance in 1st gear too. I ended up having to put it in neutral and get it moving a bit, then shift up into 2nd while moving and pop the clutch. That worked, so you might try that.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by kkim

do you have the clutch cable properly adjusted?

Im sure like everything else on this bike its not.

Guess that will be my next thing to tackle - transmission. Get the clutch adjusted, and fix the neutral light.

after that, i think all will be left for now is cosmetics.

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10016

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by ASecretNinja

I just wanted to add in that contrary to noche caliente's post, a center stand is absolutely NOT a must-have. In fact, with certain aftermarket exhausts (like mine) there is no room for it. Sure, it can be helpful for maintenance but it certainly is optional and completely up to personal preference. Don't waste time/money searching for one unless you OMFG have to get one for some reason.

Chad, I never said he needed one, just that he should have had one - read more carefully. I went on to suggest that since it was already gone, he should throw on the AreaP exhaust...

[Tommy]

put a set of stock mufflers on today and man what a difference. Bike is damn near silent compared to the hollowed out cans that were on there before.

[kkim]

cool... so, how's it running? clutch and idle issues fixed?

[Tommy]

Been out of town the past couple of days, so i didnt fix the clutch yet, but it seems to be idling better. Wants to idle low now, go figure, but it doesnt seem to be complaining about it.

[kkim]

have you tried the seafoam in the gas to try and clean out the bike as it's running?

adjusting the clutch cable should only take a couple of minutes.

[Tommy]

Never had much luck with that Snake Oil personally.

I cleaned the carbs by hand, they were damn near spotless. The clutch isnt that big a deal, therefore just havent gotten to it yet.

Itll run better now that Ive got the mufflers on and when I replace the plug wires/plugs and then dial in the mixture a little better on the carbs. Plugs are junk after the PO ran the damn thing crazy lean, and the wires are being held together with electrical tape. One step at a time ya know?

[kkim]

yep.

gl