Can fork springs be changed without removing the fork tubes?

[AlanDog]

I am lazy and poor.... and have ex500 springs ready to go... so can you just unscrew the tubes and open them from the top, pull out the OEM spring, and put in the replacement spring without removing the fairings and fork tubes?

[Mountain Dew]

Yes.

[AlanDog]

That's awesome, thanks for the quick reply. Hmmm, I might even do it tomorrow.

[Skippii]

Yeah, takes 10 minutes.

[AlanDog]

So after playing around with the oil level and preload spacer, right now I have a spacer that is 1 cm longer than the stock steel spacer, and using 10W oil, I've set it to a level of 180cm from the top. I think if anything the oil level can be increased.

This is with the ex500 springs (0.58 kg/mm) and I weigh 180 lbs.

I technically should have replaced my fork seals with 15k on the bike now, but when they go, I'll get the cartridge emulators--now that I understand what they do, I can see why they would help. Well, see how I like this setup. What I notice is that this fork doesn't have the travel of my cx500 (which is kinda like a cruiser and has a longer fork tube) and just doesn't feel as plush, and I upgraded that bike to 0.90 kg/mm springs... interesting. That bike is a tank, though.

[4950cycle]

I'm 240 + lbs . So I am difinatly interested in the mod. .

[AlanDog]

I took a 2 hour ride with the oil level set to 200mm, and it's an improvement but I still want it a little stiffer... I have my preload spacer = 3cm right now.
I have to push down about 1cm to get the cap on, and I'm getting about 1" of sag. It feels really compliant now, but looking for some more control.

Okay, I added 50mL of fork oil to (150mm) and now the travel has been reduced about an inch. Since 1 mm = 1 mL of fork oil, my conclusion is that the correct oil level with the ex500 fork is about 175 mm (from the top, without the spring). By correct I mean a level that will allow full suspension travel but is as high as possible (as stiff as possible). But YMMV, as rider weight will matter.

I guess I could increase my preload a tad, 5mm or so... next time I have the caps off...

[alex.s]

a fairy tells me you can use gear pullers to make it easy.

[AlanDog]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NPUKAC

$10, works perfectly.

[AlanDog]

Originally Posted by 4950cycle

I'm 240 + lbs . So I am definately interested in the mod. .

I would spend $20 more at get the proper (stiffer) Sonic Springs... which is probably what I should have done.

http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/...hp?cPath=29_59

Hold on... no, I think you're right, these ex500 springs are exactly what you need--hey, I could sell you mine!

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

I am lazy and poor.... and have ex500 springs ready to go... so can you just unscrew the tubes and open them from the top, pull out the OEM spring, and put in the replacement spring without removing the fairings and fork tubes?

I know this is an old thread but the answer given was yes and that's incorrect. You have to remove the fork tubes on a 1986-2007 model in order to remove the springs. I have seen several threads in the history and it seems like 50% of them are incorrect. Am I missing something here?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Am I missing something here?

Seeing how @AlanDog apparently successfully changed his springs using this method between posts #3 & #5, perhaps they could chime in with how well it worked (or didn't).

[baxtc1]

I have just put new bushes and seals in a pair of forks ('06 model) and can see no reason the springs can't be removed while fork is still on the bike.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by baxtc1

I have just put new bushes and seals in a pair of forks ('06 model) and can see no reason the springs can't be removed while fork is still on the bike.

Can you explain? I assume the method would be to remove the front wheel, the fender, tie up the caliper, loosen the clamps on the forks and drop them down low enough to pull the springs out. Then I guess there is some magical way to remove all the fork oil. Now... I am not speaking from experience from doing a 1986-2007 250r but I have done other bikes. The 2003 250r that I have has the forks sliding all the way up under the handlebar riser clamps. In order to remove the springs I need to loosen the clamps on the forks and slide them all the way out. Then.. I can remove the caps, turn the forks upside down and drain all the oil out and then drop the springs out. I can't see why anybody would want to slide the forks down low enough in the clamps to remove the springs and not just take them completely out and work on them on the bench. The forks on these bikes don't have exposed top caps like other bikes. The top caps are under the handlebar risers.

[sharky nrk]

I suppose its about what you want to do. If you want to leave the fork oil in the tube you can remove the risers, caps, and the springs from the top and let the tubes collapse down to the bottom, top off to get the right air gap, prop the front back up, install springs, put back together and done. For me I pull them because I changed fluid when I swapped springs.

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Can you explain? I assume the method would be to remove the front wheel, the fender, tie up the caliper, loosen the clamps on the forks and drop them down low enough to pull the springs out. Then I guess there is some magical way to remove all the fork oil. Now... I am not speaking from experience from doing a 1986-2007 250r but I have done other bikes. The 2003 250r that I have has the forks sliding all the way up under the handlebar riser clamps. In order to remove the springs I need to loosen the clamps on the forks and slide them all the way out. Then.. I can remove the caps, turn the forks upside down and drain all the oil out and then drop the springs out. I can't see why anybody would want to slide the forks down low enough in the clamps to remove the springs and not just take them completely out and work on them on the bench. The forks on these bikes don't have exposed top caps like other bikes. The top caps are under the handlebar risers.

The guy had to drop the forks from the bike completely to replace the fork bushings and seals. Other than that, there is no need to drop the forks to swap out springs.

[subxero]

like others have said, it can be done

I know It is possible on the new gens and looking at the parts image for a pregen I cant see why it would not be possible and easy.

http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/oe...front-fork-f6f


lift front end up, take off bars, pop out metal ring, remove caps, washer, spacer boom there are your springs.
There is a screw at the bottom of the fork you can drain the oil out of, remove front wheel axle to get access, when done put it all back.
Lower bike to fully compress fork tubes, put oil in to your desired level, raise front end back up and reassemble fork.

it would take you longer to wait for the oil to drain than it would to perform the actual work to do this.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I suppose its about what you want to do. If you want to leave the fork oil in the tube you can remove the risers, caps, and the springs from the top and let the tubes collapse down to the bottom, top off to get the right air gap, prop the front back up, install springs, put back together and done. For me I pull them because I changed fluid when I swapped springs.

And before you removed them did you put a mark in each so that you know how far up to slide them into the upper tree? I have read that at the factory they slide them up into the upper tree until they touch. I was thinking I would mark mine with tape before I removed them so that I could reinstall in the exact same position.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by jgcable

And before you removed them did you put a mark in each so that you know how far up to slide them into the upper tree? I have read that at the factory they slide them up into the upper tree until they touch. I was thinking I would mark mine with tape before I removed them so that I could reinstall in the exact same position.

you talking about the fork tubes? just measure with a caliper from the top of the fork to the tree before you take them out.... if you decided to take them out.

OEM setup on a new gen is listed at 12mm above top triple, there is probably a number listed somewhere for pregen

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by subxero

like others have said, it can be done

I know It is possible on the new gens and looking at the parts image for a pregen I cant see why it would not be possible and easy.

http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/oe...front-fork-f6f


lift front end up, take off bars, pop out metal ring, remove caps, washer, spacer boom there are your springs.
There is a screw at the bottom of the fork you can drain the oil out of, remove front wheel axle to get access, when done put it all back.
Lower bike to fully compress fork tubes, put oil in to your desired level, raise front end back up and reassemble fork.

it would take you longer to wait for the oil to drain than it would to perform the actual work to do this.

Thanks for the response. I was looking at that Kawasaki diagram and I don't see a cap listed for the top of the fork. Isn't there one?

[subxero]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Thanks for the response. I was looking at that Kawasaki diagram and I don't see a cap listed for the top of the fork. Isn't there one?

44029, they call it a "Seat-fork Spring"

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by jgcable

And before you removed them did you put a mark in each so that you know how far up to slide them into the upper tree? I have read that at the factory they slide them up into the upper tree until they touch. I was thinking I would mark mine with tape before I removed them so that I could reinstall in the exact same position.

I have clipons and a non stock setup as far as what is showing from the tube so I am a bit different but tape probably wont make it though the clamps. I just measure it after I put it back in from the top of the clamp to the top of the tube.

[InvisiBill]

The PreGen forks look pretty similar to the EX500 forks from what I've seen. I've changed the springs and even added Intiminators (without drilling out the damper tube holes, obviously) without removing the forks from the bike. Just remove the bar risers to gain access to the top of the fork tubes, use a 2-jaw puller to remove the cap, then pull the old spacers/springs out and drop the new ones in.

Keep in mind that if you're measuring oil height with the forks installed, they'll be at an angle. The oil will be further from the top at the front, and closer at the rear. The center of the tube will be the correct height, so measure there instead of all the way to the front or rear. A cooking squeeze baster with measurement lines drawn on the side makes it really easy to set the level.

Also, the EX500 springs are stiffer than stock, but still fairly soft. According to RaceTech's calculator (which may or may not be all that accurate) they're good for a ~110lb rider. If you're smaller and/or get the EX500 springs dirt cheap or free, they could be a good upgrade. They're not a cure-all for everyone's spring problems though. If there's a significant difference, spend a little more and just get the ones in the right rate.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

The PreGen forks look pretty similar to the EX500 forks from what I've seen. I've changed the springs and even added Intiminators (without drilling out the damper tube holes, obviously) without removing the forks from the bike. Just remove the bar risers to gain access to the top of the fork tubes, use a 2-jaw puller to remove the cap, then pull the old spacers/springs out and drop the new ones in.

Keep in mind that if you're measuring oil height with the forks installed, they'll be at an angle. The oil will be further from the top at the front, and closer at the rear. The center of the tube will be the correct height, so measure there instead of all the way to the front or rear. A cooking squeeze baster with measurement lines drawn on the side makes it really easy to set the level.

Also, the EX500 springs are stiffer than stock, but still fairly soft. According to RaceTech's calculator (which may or may not be all that accurate) they're good for a ~110lb rider. If you're smaller and/or get the EX500 springs dirt cheap or free, they could be a good upgrade. They're not a cure-all for everyone's spring problems though. If there's a significant difference, spend a little more and just get the ones in the right rate.

you can always lift the rear up until they are perpendicular

[AlanDog]

The gear puller mentioned above was for pushing the cap down when the preload spacers made it difficult. I guess you could put it on as you unscrewed the cap so the whole thing won't explode in your face... but mostly it made it much easier to screw in the cap (from what I vaguely remember, this was two years ago).

Do one side at a time, or support the engine, with both caps off the whole front end will collapse.

I think I bought a quart (or 500mL?) of fork oil and there was enough extra so that I could 'rinse' the fork with some of the new oil after pumping the old oil from the bottom drain plug (by just bouncing on the bars/triple-tree). Of course this is not as thorough as taking the whole thing apart, but much easier. Good enough for me. Or just buy an extra bottle of fork oil for $8, much easier than taking off the front wheel and removing the fork tubes.

The ex500 springs just weren't stiff enough for my weight. Diddling with the preload and fork oil did not change this. I just needed to buy stiffer springs and get emulators... gave up before I got there.

Can't believe it was only two years ago that I had my ninja 250 and I was a happy newb. *sniff* *sniff* I sure miss my old 250.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

The gear puller mentioned above was for pushing the cap down when the preload spacers made it difficult. I guess you could put it on as you unscrewed the cap so the whole thing won't explode in your face... but mostly it made it much easier to screw in the cap (from what I vaguely remember, this was two years ago).

The cap is held in with a circlip. The puller will hold the cap down a bit and make the circlip easy to pop out. If you bend a couple millimeters of the end of the circlip in and up, it'll be much easier to pull out next time.

Originally Posted by AlanDog

Do one side at a time, or support the engine, with both caps off the whole front end will collapse.

Yup, with the caps off, there's obviously no air seal, and the tops of the springs aren't pushing against anything. FWUMP!

Originally Posted by AlanDog

I think I bought a quart (or 500mL?) of fork oil and there was enough extra so that I could 'rinse' the fork with some of the new oil after pumping the old oil from the bottom drain plug (by just bouncing on the bars/triple-tree). Of course this is not as thorough as taking the whole thing apart, but much easier. Good enough for me. Or just buy an extra bottle of fork oil for $8, much easier than taking off the front wheel and removing the fork tubes.

I bought a quart (32oz) of AMSoil Shock Therapy 5W with my Intiminators. When I finished, I had exactly 12oz left, meaning I used 10oz in each fork tube. Again, this is on the 500, but the forks are pretty similar. Like Alan said, a quart should be plenty to fill the forks and give you some extra.

Originally Posted by AlanDog

The ex500 springs just weren't stiff enough for my weight. Diddling with the preload and fork oil did not change this. I just needed to buy stiffer springs and get emulators... gave up before I got there.

As has been stated before, preload doesn't make a spring stiffer. It makes it compress less from your weight because you're pre-compressing it some. It moves the starting point where the spring starts to compress, but the same amount of weight (assuming it exceeds the preload weight) will still cause the spring to compress to the exact same overall height. You're just tweaking the spring's range of operation. Fork oil and emulators can affect compression damping, which can make the fork stiffer by adding resistance as it's trying to compress. But if the spring's too weak, the fork will be moving too much/fast, and you're forcing the compression damping to work harder to control that excess movement. Using the proper spring will help the suspension to move the proper amount, without the compression damping having to help out. That's why it's important to get springs matched to the weight they need to support.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

Do one side at a time, or support the engine, with both caps off the whole front end will collapse.

if you have any garage or shed or anything with some place to secure some ratchet tie down straps, loop them over rafters and through the top triple, ratchet it up and just hang the front end to take off the weight makes things easy.