News segment on lane-splitting (CA only)

[headshrink]

I just stumbled upon this news segment about lane-splitting and thought I'd share.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[headshrink]

And just for fun, a girl passing 2 CHPs

Link to original page on YouTube.

[moonwalker]

As first video says, lane splitting is legal only in California. Can't really complain seeing all the people here in Kansas regularly switching lanes and turning w/o any signals. Also, we don't have car pool lanes Or I just never seen one yet.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by moonwalker

As first video says, lane splitting is legal only in California. Can't really complain seeing all the people here in Kansas regularly switching lanes and turning w/o any signals. Also, we don't have car pool lanes Or I just never seen one yet.

honestly it should be legal everywhere, at the bare minimum legal at stops/red lights due to the safety concerns of potentially being run over. hell my dad got rear ended in his cage a few weeks ago, in a cage it's just an inconvenience and some insurance filings on a bike it's a bit more serious and could be easily avoided by splitting in front of safety cushions (cars) to a safer point.

the reason it's not is because of all the people who are scared because they have bikers fly by them "inches away" on the highway and think "what if I switched lanes? would I have killed that biker?" and so on. really just an example of how the actions of some affect everyone within the niche (not saying I'm innocent but I consider that and splitting at a red light to be entirely different animals that should be treated as such)

[alex.s]

so stop complaining

Link to original page on YouTube.

[akima]

A lot of riders riding really close to the car in front in that video!

Is that a green ninjette at the end of the video?

[beazy411]

If only it was legal in more states than Cali.

[moonwalker]

I have a strange feeling of dejavu with this topic and video...

[fr1dayn1ght]

wait so...say outside of cali, what if a motorcycle is lane splitting (illegal) and someone prevented it from lane splitting (illegal). whos at fault when accident happen?

[akima]

Originally Posted by moonwalker

I have a strange feeling of dejavu with this topic and video...

I love that feeling! It's so mysterious.

In this particular instance it's probably because we've had these exact same topics brought up many times on this forum. Lane splitting, legality, safety, Cali.

[beazy411]

Originally Posted by fr1dayn1ght

wait so...say outside of cali, what if a motorcycle is lane splitting (illegal) and someone prevented it from lane splitting (illegal). whos at fault when accident happen?

If a rider was attempting to lane split, that would mean that they were coming up behind another car in an attempt to pass them. In most states, the driver in the rear vehicle is automatically at fault. So add that to the fact that lane splitting/sharing is also illegal in that state and the rider is pretty much screwed.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by fr1dayn1ght

wait so...say outside of cali, what if a motorcycle is lane splitting (illegal) and someone prevented it from lane splitting (illegal). whos at fault when accident happen?

the lawmakers who think it should be illegal.

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by akima

I love that feeling! It's so mysterious.

In this particular instance it's probably because we've had these exact same topics brought up many times on this forum. Lane splitting, legality, safety, Cali.

No, I mean exactly this same video. And, like, within two days. I think I even posted a response. Could it be it was in this thread but then it got wiped or something?

[moonwalker]

What if I lane split as a maneuver to avoid rear-ending car in front of me during sudden traffic stop? Or as an attempt to avoid being rear-ended myself in a traffic stop (say noticed car behind me approaching too fast for comfort)?

[akima]

Originally Posted by moonwalker

No, I mean exactly this same video. And, like, within two days. I think I even posted a response. Could it be it was in this thread but then it got wiped or something?

Or could it be... the filters your mind created to protect you from the infinite, momentarily broke! You glimpsed a tiny fragment of time outside of the bounds of its usual constraints. This created an anachronistic memory of a future event!

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by akima

Or could it be... the filters your mind created to protect you from the infinite, momentarily broke! You glimpsed a tiny fragment of time outside of the bounds of its usual constraints. This created an anachronistic memory of a future event!

LOL, I'm too familiar with principles on which neural networks function to buy into the whole "mind filters that protect from infinite" thing. I had constant dejavu during my experiments with sleep deprivation during my second year in university, that's when I got interested in the subject.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by akima

Or could it be... the filters your mind created to protect you from the infinite, momentarily broke! You glimpsed a tiny fragment of time outside of the bounds of its usual constraints. This created an anachronistic memory of a future event!

I hate when that happens.

[Alex]

/merged

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by Alex

/merged

You're the saviour of my sanity

[chillbr0412]

Originally Posted by beazy411

If only it was legal in more states than Cali.

We can only hope one day

[accumack]

this is a link to a guide to lane splitting the CHP put out.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

[akima]

Originally Posted by headshrink

And just for fun, a girl passing 2 CHPs

Link to original page on YouTube.

I don't and wouldn't filter (lane split) the way she does in that video.

She's video logging, which must be distracting her from concentrating on what the drivers around her are doing. If you're going to take the huge risk of filtering at high speed then you should at least give it your full attention.

She's also filtering at high speed past cars which have a full space to the right or left of them that they could move into. If one of those cars does change lanes while she's doing that then she doesn't have much time to react at those speeds. The consequences of a crash at those speeds are huge: I'd put my money on death.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it sensible.

I keep my filtering to low speed only scenarios. ~20MPH or less between very slow moving or stationary traffic. At these speeds you can stop in a reasonable amount of time if you spot a hazard up ahead. Both you and the drivers around you also have more time to react if any of you make a mistake. Horns can also be heard clearly at low speed whereas at high speed hitting the horn may not alert anyone to your presence.

[Trubin]

I thought filtering was when everyone stands on a red light and you cut though to the front. I think its kinda different than lane splitting and it feels safer since all cars are standing.

[Angel-be-Good]

Stanley Roberts. *Shiver*

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by akima

I don't and wouldn't filter (lane split) the way she does in that video.

She's video logging, which must be distracting her from concentrating on what the drivers around her are doing. If you're going to take the huge risk of filtering at high speed then you should at least give it your full attention.

She's also filtering at high speed past cars which have a full space to the right or left of them that they could move into. If one of those cars does change lanes while she's doing that then she doesn't have much time to react at those speeds. The consequences of a crash at those speeds are huge: I'd put my money on death.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it sensible.

I keep my filtering to low speed only scenarios. ~20MPH or less between very slow moving or stationary traffic. At these speeds you can stop in a reasonable amount of time if you spot a hazard up ahead. Both you and the drivers around you also have more time to react if any of you make a mistake. Horns can also be heard clearly at low speed whereas at high speed hitting the horn may not alert anyone to your presence.

i didn't see her do anything wrong but i didn't watch much. bikes generally split up to 50mph here. some bikes always split regardless. i have seen several bikes crash while staying in their lanes in person. i've never seen a bike crash while splitting in person and i see that far more often than i see the opposite. between lane 1 and 2 is generally accepted (even among cagers) to be the motorcycle lane.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Trubin

I thought filtering was when everyone stands on a red light and you cut though to the front. I think its kinda different than lane splitting and it feels safer since all cars are standing.

Filtering = lane splitting. We just use the word "filtering" over here.

Originally Posted by alex.s

i didn't see her do anything wrong but i didn't watch much. bikes generally split up to 50mph here. some bikes always split regardless. i have seen several bikes crash while staying in their lanes in person. i've never seen a bike crash while splitting in person and i see that far more often than i see the opposite. between lane 1 and 2 is generally accepted (even among cagers) to be the motorcycle lane.

The fact that people regularly do high speed splitting in Cali doesn't make it safe. Lots of people smoke a pack of cigarettes a day.

You can legally filter/split up to the speed limit over here, which on motorways means 70MPH and with the 10mph speedo-error allowance means up to 80 MPH! It's possible the police here could do you for "driving without due care and attention". I'm not sure if they would or not. I've heard of police pulling people over here not to fine them, but to say "dude: that's legal, but it's stupid."

Just because you haven't seen someone crash during a high speed split doesn't mean that it is safe.

I can picture some exceptions where I could safely high speed split, but they are just that... exceptions.

I wouldn't want any laws made to stop you high speed splitting and I respect your personal decision to do it, but I really can't see how it's safe. So little room to manouver, so little time to react to mistakes of vehicles that are very close to you and such large consequences if you do get-clipped / crash. Also: over here (I'm guessing in Cali too), you can get dodgy sections of road between lanes. Potholes sometimes. At slower speeds you could deal with them relatively easy, but at higher speeds they become much harder to deal with and the forces involved when you hit them are greater increasing the chance of damaging you and your bike.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by akima

Filtering = lane splitting. We just use the word "filtering" over here.



The fact that people regularly do high speed splitting in Cali doesn't make it safe. Lots of people smoke a pack of cigarettes a day.

You can legally filter/split up to the speed limit over here, which on motorways means 70MPH and with the 10mph speedo-error allowance means up to 80 MPH! It's possible the police here could do you for "driving without due care and attention". I'm not sure if they would or not. I've heard of police pulling people over here not to fine them, but to say "dude: that's legal, but it's stupid."

Just because you haven't seen someone crash during a high speed split doesn't mean that it is safe.

I can picture some exceptions where I could safely high speed split, but they are just that... exceptions.

I wouldn't want any laws made to stop you high speed splitting and I respect your personal decision to do it, but I really can't see how it's safe. So little room to manouver, so little time to react to mistakes of vehicles that are very close to you and such large consequences if you do get-clipped / crash. Also: over here (I'm guessing in Cali too), you can get dodgy sections of road between lanes. Potholes sometimes. At slower speeds you could deal with them relatively easy, but at higher speeds they become much harder to deal with and the forces involved when you hit them are greater increasing the chance of damaging you and your bike.

I would not call it safe but I can see Alex's point that it maybe safer then being boxed-in at high speeds. I am not sure I agree. I do wish PA would trade in our lack of a helmet law for lane splitting.

[cookiebug79]

Originally Posted by akima

I wouldn't want any laws made to stop you high speed splitting and I respect your personal decision to do it, but I really can't see how it's safe. So little room to manouver, so little time to react to mistakes of vehicles that are very close to you and such large consequences if you do get-clipped / crash. Also: over here (I'm guessing in Cali too), you can get dodgy sections of road between lanes. Potholes sometimes. At slower speeds you could deal with them relatively easy, but at higher speeds they become much harder to deal with and the forces involved when you hit them are greater increasing the chance of damaging you and your bike.

I disagree with your statement "So little room to maneuver, so little time to react to mistakes of vehicles that are very close to you"

There's actually a lot of room between cars on CA highways. It's like a full lane most of the time. I freaked out when I first started doing it, but now I can't imagine living somewhere that doesn't allow it. You have to ride defensively and assume no one see you. Once you get in that mindset there's always enough room, a way out, an obvious way to do it. It saves SO MUCH time on our over-congested So Cal freeways.

Also, our roads in So Cal are not subject to a lot of extreme weather changes. They do get pot holes, but mostly in the lanes where the car tires are. There are not a lot of pot holes between lanes, but raised reflective lane markers that are bumpy if you ride on them. Also, speed stabilizes.

I won't deny that people get hit/clipped. But with the population density we have here in LA the occurrence vs probability is quite low.

[akima]

Originally Posted by cookiebug79

I disagree with your statement "So little room to maneuver, so little time to react to mistakes of vehicles that are very close to you"

There's actually a lot of room between cars on CA highways. It's like a full lane most of the time. I freaked out when I first started doing it, but now I can't imagine living somewhere that doesn't allow it. You have to ride defensively and assume no one see you. Once you get in that mindset there's always enough room, a way out, an obvious way to do it. It saves SO MUCH time on our over-congested So Cal freeways.

I didn't think of that. Over here the lanes are pretty narrow. I guess wider lanes might effect my decision to high speed lane split or not.

Did you see the video I posted of a guy on a dual carriage way crashing between two lorries?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=152250

The roads don't get that much wider than that over here!

Top Gear did an episode once where they took a hummer h2 down British country lanes. I can't find it on youtube. It was pretty funny. They struggled.

Originally Posted by cookiebug79

Also, our roads in So Cal are not subject to a lot of extreme weather changes. They do get pot holes, but mostly in the lanes where the car tires are. There are not a lot of pot holes between lanes, but raised reflective lane markers that are bumpy if you ride on them. Also, speed stabilizes.

I won't deny that people get hit/clipped. But with the population density we have here in LA the occurrence vs probability is quite low.

Remember I'm only talking about high speed lane splitting. I personally do low speed lane splitting on pretty much every single ride. It would drive me crazy if I was forced to stay in-line with cars all the time.

[headshrink]

Damn it... didn't intend to restart the conversation, just wanted to share the new (to me) videos. Sorry.