911 therory

[akima]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[ruben]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Then they just won.

You do realize this sentence contradicts itself, right?

no, they won long before we killed osama.
they made their point and were still paying the price for it. they struck fear onto the country and we chose security over certain freedoms.

look at the big picture lol

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by ruben

look at the big picture lol

Look at the big picture?

What I said had nothing to do with anything other than you saying, "You don't f*** with radicals."

I personally believe if you let a terrorist put fear into your heart and affect the way you live your life as an INDIVIDUAL, then you let them win. I don't care about what the U.S. government did or did not do, nor do I care about conspiracy theories, that came about because of 9/11. It is that simple.

If you lack the basic comprehension needed to understand a simple statement, then please remove yourself from the conversation until you do.

[ruben]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Look at the big picture?

What I said had nothing to do with anything other than you saying, "You don't f*** with radicals."

I personally believe if you let a terrorist put fear into your heart and affect the way you live your life as an INDIVIDUAL, then you let them win. I don't care about what the U.S. government did or did not do, nor do I care about conspiracy theories, that came about because of 9/11. It is that simple.

If you lack the basic comprehension needed to understand a simple statement, then please remove yourself from the conversation until you do.

lol your statement was one sentence long. i dont have a problem comprehending as much as you have a problem with elaborating. you dont have to be condescending.

you can beleive what you want, i guess youre entitled to your opinions. but you must be living a different planet if you think anyone lives the same way they did pre 911.

[Cedilla]

Originally Posted by ruben

no, they won long before we killed osama.
they made their point and were still paying the price for it. they struck fear onto the country and we chose security over certain freedoms.

look at the big picture lol

QFT.

The thousands of lives lost that day and in the resulting wars are undoubtedly a huge loss, but so are the freedoms we lost the world over in the last decade, and the resulting changes to our society; The color coded "Homeland Security Advisory System", the passing of the USA PATRIOT Act, the changes in airport security, the NSA spying on US citizens, the unwaivering fear of another attack in the following years, and even the conspiracy theories themselves.

The aftereffects of this act of terrorism are still very visible a decade later, and are not going away any time soon, if ever. It doesn't matter who we kill/capture, the world will never be the same as it was on September 10, 2001. Thats why I think the terrorist have won, because its not about how many people they kill, but about making a statement, and changing the attitudes of people through violent means.

[ungluck]

one or two people on here know of my background...if you met me..you would no fukn clue.


our commander in chief, the men and women who plan and plot and ask thos eof us who gather,hunt and take action...all have an undying, steadfast patriotism for us and our country and what it stands for...i will keep this simple..

there were mistakes made, the human factor is destined for error. we and the people we know..your neighbor,brother,uncle..do jobs and handle info..and with billions of people on earth...and tons of communication forms and people using it simultaneously, it is hard to always dechiper what is most urgent and not. **** happens and we cannot change the past.

this thread is a spit in the face to people like myself who were involved in these areas, with the people, before,during and after 9/11...

these mother****ers have been doing this **** for a long time. the christian did it to them thousands of years ago, and now the west is their new target. **** we even funded some of them.

but..to doubt our gov't, in all it's headup it's ass actions, to doubt them in our protection. is completely ignorant. those same people who you know enlist and deploy, work their ass off to be up in the top positions, a lot fo those people you are saying conspired. they fought in grenada, korea, vietnam, desert storm, mogadishu and so on.

this is purely my stand point, personall. which can be based on what i have seen and doen as an operator. where i stand in politics and what i know of people i know who help run this amazing country.

thanks to those that serve. much gratitude.

mahalo nui

[ungluck]

PS. remember..true terrosim or terrorist, are breed from within. they harbor hatred for their own. they also destroy their own from within.

[DarC]

Originally Posted by Cedilla

QFT.

The thousands of lives lost that day and in the resulting wars are undoubtedly a huge loss, but so are the freedoms we lost the world over in the last decade, and the resulting changes to our society; The color coded "Homeland Security Advisory System", the passing of the USA PATRIOT Act, the changes in airport security, the NSA spying on US citizens, the unwaivering fear of another attack in the following years, and even the conspiracy theories themselves.

The aftereffects of this act of terrorism are still very visible a decade later, and are not going away any time soon, if ever. It doesn't matter who we kill/capture, the world will never be the same as it was on September 10, 2001. Thats why I think the terrorist have won, because its not about how many people they kill, but about making a statement, and changing the attitudes of people through violent means.

Some people in this thread sound like a beaten puppy. What freedoms have we lost that it is so bad to declare a terrorist victory? I certainly don't feel defeated and that is why, at my house, there is no tolerance of the "we are now a whopped society" mindset. Who gives a **** if I take 20 minutes to go through security, nothing has been taken, only security or piece of mind given.


QFW.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by DarC

Some people in this thread sound like a beaten puppy. What freedoms have we lost that it is so bad to declare a terrorist victory? I certainly don't feel defeated and that is why, at my house, there is no tolerance of the "we are now a whopped society" mindset. Who gives a **** if I take 20 minutes to go through security, nothing has been taken, only security or piece of mind given.

You do realize that to go through airport security they require that you are strip searched, right? In the 60's, you just got on the plane and went. Then they went to metal detectors. Now its electronic strip searches. And they steal your yogurt if you are so evil as to try bring some on the plane. Then you have to realize that you can't talk about just anything on the phone, the .gov can listen in at any time without a warrant. If you say something they don't like, they you get a one way ticket to Guantanamo with no lawyer, no chance of appeal and no charges. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry, but the terrorists have definitely won in that respect.

[DarC]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

You do realize that to go through airport security they require that you are strip searched, right? In the 60's, you just got on the plane and went. Then they went to metal detectors. Now its electronic strip searches. And they steal your yogurt if you are so evil as to try bring some on the plane. Then you have to realize that you can't talk about just anything on the phone, the .gov can listen in at any time without a warrant. If you say something they don't like, they you get a one way ticket to Guantanamo with no lawyer, no chance of appeal and no charges. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry, but the terrorists have definitely won in that respect.

Paranoid much? You watch too much dateline NBC. When was the last time you were interrogated by the DOD? Did you buy your yogurt before or after security? Is it really that big a deal? The bad guys only win if you let them and right now you sound whopped. Security was headed this way regardless, we just sped it up a decade or so.

I hate to sound rash or inconsiderate but despite the enormous loss these wars have provided decades of advancement in technology and medicine. This is the stuff that makes us a superpower and not a slave. You hit us, we f*ck your world and build robot legs and arms and take emergency medicine to a point 20 years from now. I don't see that as a loss at all.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by DarC

Paranoid much? You watch too much dateline NBC. When was the last time you were interrogated by the DOD? Did you buy your yogurt before or after security? Is it really that big a deal? The bad guys only win if you let them and right now you sound whopped. Security was headed this way regardless, we just sped it up a decade or so.

I hate to sound rash or inconsiderate but despite the enormous loss these wars have provided decades of advancement in technology and medicine. This is the stuff that makes us a superpower and not a slave. You hit us, we f*ck your world and build robot legs and arms and take emergency medicine to a point 20 years from now. I don't see that as a loss at all.

Paranoia isn't a factor here. Paranoia is suspicions and false beliefs of malevolence of others. The points that I have raised aren't false beliefs, they are well documented facts (patriot act, electronic strip searches, yogurt, etc).

I have never been interrogated by the DOD, but just today for example, a guy trying to exercise his first amendment rights, rented a U-haul and hung a sign on it bad mouthing the local sheriff. He then parked it in a legal parking place downtown. Well, after about a day, they called the bomb squad and just about every federal agency showed up to check it out.

[almost40]

I guess you would get on a plane full of suspicious types that didnt go thru a security check point.....Right???
Is its that, you have a problem with a government agency listening in on your phone call to you mother or girlfriend.
Whats to worry about if your not planning anything illegal???
If you are planning illegal activities over the phone....then maybe your not so bright.
Lastly. Do you think they send American citizens to Gitmo??
Man are you misinformed.
The landscape changed after 9-11. IMO it changed for the better for law abiding americans.

[ruben]

lol this argument will be endless.

one person likes to defend his rights as protected by the constitution, the other says he's dense for exercising those rights.

its this,"youre with us or against us attitude." theres no grey area anymore. protesting, questioning and skepticism now a days is portrayed as "unamerican."

just agree to disagree and we can all move on lolol

[blink]

Well when the 2nd plane was called in "hijacked" the 2 jet pilots didn't get sent out quicker to intercept the path, they didn't take the plane down ?

But guys keep in mind the impact from tower falling caused the earth...around NY to shake.
SO there might have been many factors to why building 7 collapsed.

[DarC]

Originally Posted by ruben

lol this argument will be endless.

one person likes to defend his rights as protected by the constitution, the other says he's dense for exercising those rights.

its this,"youre with us or against us attitude." theres no grey area anymore. protesting, questioning and skepticism now a days is portrayed as "unamerican."

just agree to disagree and we can all move on lolol

I am all for the rights provided by the Constitution. I exercise them daily, hell I'm another gun toting (concealed) redneck from middle America. It is the acceptance that there are sacrifices that have to be made and the understanding that they may not be permanent as many may feel. There are a few of us here that understand the sacrifices more than others (and deal with them every day) and it may be our job to just remind others that they exist. I am fully aware of everyone's differing opinion and now that I'm home from work I can say that I appreciate those opinions with more rationality (I may have been a little curt earlier).

There are phases in history where things happen and people react...given time there is always a solution or an understanding. It may suck to some but CURRENTLY (since I like to live now) we are still a free nation, we just have a very suspicious and protective set of foster parents.

The only thing I find un-American is not speaking up

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by almost40

I guess you would get on a plane full of suspicious types that didnt go thru a security check point.....Right???
Is its that, you have a problem with a government agency listening in on your phone call to you mother or girlfriend.
Whats to worry about if your not planning anything illegal???
If you are planning illegal activities over the phone....then maybe your not so bright.
Lastly. Do you think they send American citizens to Gitmo??
Man are you misinformed.
The landscape changed after 9-11. IMO it changed for the better for law abiding americans.

Ok I was wrong. Paranoia is a factor here. If you can't get on a plane without worrying that everyone else might be out to get you, then that's paranoia. Last I heard, planes had locked flight cabins to prevent hijacking and armed sky marshals to watch for those "suspicious types."

I used to be like you. Right after 9-11 I had to fly. There was this bearded skinny guy acting funny waiting to get on. I got worried so I told the check in lady that I thought he might be a muslim out to blow up the plane. She told me that he wasn't a muslim and that he was just gay. The plane took off and landed without incident. I don't accuse skinny gay guys of being muslims any more.

And yes, there is no reason why a US citizen can't be held at gitmo or elsewhere under the patriot act. I heard on the news the other night that the US was worried about two Al-Qaeda US citizens that might be up to no good. Their US citizenship will not grant them any special favors.

[dubojr1]

*Unsubscribe*

This thread is getting out of hand. Maybe I'm paranoid...

[DarC]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

And yes, there is no reason why a US citizen can't be held at gitmo or elsewhere under the patriot act. I heard on the news the other night that the US was worried about two Al-Qaeda US citizens that might be up to no good. Their US citizenship will not grant them any special favors.

There are specific criteria that must be met before a U.S. citizen can be imprisoned on non-sovereign territory outside of the U.S. First the person must be declared an enemy combatant by an executive order from the president and more than likely a decision from Congress. You just can't yell Mujahadeen!, punch someone in the face, and end up at GITMO.

Those two Al-Qaeda guys could easily be considered enemy combatants given that they are part of an militant organization that has been declared an enemy of the United States and NATO among others. Their U.S. citizenship, however, WILL grant them special considerations above others in detention be cause they will have the right to challenge their detention and so forth and so on.

This is not some big conspiracy unless you are an operative deep in the middle of this BS and are sneaking around doing bad booboo. If everyone would stop pretending that we are in a Jason Borne movie we might be better off.

[akima]

American people generally seem quite nice in my experience so far, but your government... it scares the s**t out of me!

I think the USA government reaction to the 9/11 events was 100x worse than the event itself. The war, the killing, the loss of freedoms for you guys (patriot act etc), the loss of privacy, the money spent on paranoid security which could have, instead, been spent doing amazing positive things for you guys or even the world. Any of you even remember the announcement of the pentagon not being able to account for 2.3 TRILLION. They announced that the day before sept 11th - lucky timing.

... TRILLION ...

I don't know if you guys are comfortable with it, but I personally don't want to ever fly into your country just because I know how bad your TSA can be. The whole world knows how bad your TSA is. I don't feel like being felt up, photographed naked, interrogated and filled on some database where no doubt all manor of checks will be made against me to profile me. Just yesterday mordeth13 released a video saying that his wife wasn't allowed to travel to Canada because she didn't have an American visa. All she was doing was transferring planes in a USA airport!

The UK is bad in different ways. I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but the UK government and our police seem to be more regimented than yours on the whole. Like: if I was in the states I'd be worried about being pulled over by some thick-as-s**t cop who can barely read, let alone have a good comprehension of what the law or what my rights are. Over here our police seem to generally play by the rules (with exceptions). The sad thing is how many rules there are and how some of them are completely unreasonable. In short: I'd rather get caught speeding, smoking a spliff or carrying yogart through an airport in the UK than in the states.

I think we've gone off topic a bit. I suppose we are discussing the fall-out of 9/11, so it's probably ok!

[Alex]

I think all of it is relative. When I traveled in London, for example, I was much more put off by the extent of the security cameras posted virtually everywhere for monitoring by the police. The amping up of security across many Western countries certainly has its negative byproducts, some of them listed already in this thread.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Alex

I think all of it is relative. When I traveled in London, for example, I was much more put off by the extent of the security cameras posted virtually everywhere for monitoring by the police. The amping up of security across many Western countries certainly has its negative byproducts, some of them listed already in this thread.

Yeah. Our cameras suck I like to walk through the city at first light sometimes. It's really nice being on the empty streets. It's somewhat ruined by the cameras because I can see them tracking me as I walk. I'm not sure if they automatically do that or if there is a human operator. Either way it's creepy.

[ruben]

Originally Posted by DarC

I am all for the rights provided by the Constitution. I exercise them daily, hell I'm another gun toting (concealed) redneck from middle America. It is the acceptance that there are sacrifices that have to be made and the understanding that they may not be permanent as many may feel. There are a few of us here that understand the sacrifices more than others (and deal with them every day) and it may be our job to just remind others that they exist. I am fully aware of everyone's differing opinion and now that I'm home from work I can say that I appreciate those opinions with more rationality (I may have been a little curt earlier).

There are phases in history where things happen and people react...given time there is always a solution or an understanding. It may suck to some but CURRENTLY (since I like to live now) we are still a free nation, we just have a very suspicious and protective set of foster parents.

The only thing I find un-American is not speaking up

and as a self proclaimed red neck, you wouldnt know about getting racially profiled, would you? if someone like me gets pulled over by an officer on a power trip one day, and my attitude isnt to their liking, he can throw me in detention, just because. as soon as you throw around the word 'suspicious,' its ok to get treated as a suspect till proven innocent. i dont like being 'randomly' chosen for further screening because of the way i look. i guess some freedoms are more important than others to some.

the england riots are kind of a glimpse into the future if things keep going the way theyre going. but of course our legislators wont even look twice at it so long as their getting theyre paychecks.

[ninja_sleeper]

Link to original page on YouTube.

Jessie Ventura...