crf230m or wr250x - ninja 250 alternatives?

[Broom]

my girlfriend has grown interested in learning to ride and getting a bike. I'm not a big fan of riding on the street due to the fun/risk ratio being way off in most cases when compared to off road or the track... so instead of getting her set up on a ninja 250 where she would be stuck learning how to ride on the streets (post MSF course) i thought i'd be a good idea to get her the crf230m or maybe the wr250x. that way she can come out with me and ride the trails and get a good feel for the bike and also come out for some track days with my family and i. lots of opportunities for her to get her kicks without needing to ride on the street more than necessary. anyone have any input on this?

i was also wondering if the extra $800 or so for the yamaha is worth it for inverted forks, water cooled engine and fuel injection.

she's pretty excited about them and i'm probably going to have a hard time keeping her from buying one this weekend when we go sit on some.

i've converted a dirtbike (dr350) from dirt to street legal, so i can go that route too (pretty easy in texas). the problem with that is the wheels... a set of 17" wheels is stupid expensive. keeping the stock wheel size and throwing some trail wings on works, but its just not as cool

some stats just incase it matters:
shes about 5'3" - i know you can get lowering links for the honda at least
knows how to ride a clutchless pit bike.
very competitive
likes to go fast
likes adventure
cute
asian

--- edit ---
i showed her the thread and she said (jokingly) that i should put some flattering picts of her in here before the bikes
click to see larger.



hiking the inca trail


horse back riding


honda crf230m


yamaha wr250x

[Alex]

There was a comparo of those two bikes a few months back, I think it was in Motorcycle Consumer News. The Yamaha trumped the Honda in every single category, it seemed to be in a completely different class. The only thing that they preferred on the Honda was the throttle response was a little smoother.

Is the intention to ever use them on the street? If not, then why not get a dirt bike for the trails and a track-only bike for the track? Either would be a better choice than compromising in both environments. For the price of that new Yamaha, 2 used bikes would be a piece of cake to find. If the intention is to ride it on the street at any point, a Ninja 250 > either of these SM singles. Better power, handling, range, comfort, you name it.

[komohana]

hey jon,
although i dont have any suggestions for ya, i DO wanna say thats a good idea having her trail ride prior to hitting the road. am planning on doing the same for my wife when she's ready.

will be watching to see whatcha get and how things go.

aloha

[Broom]

Originally Posted by Alex

Is the intention to ever use them on the street? If not, then why not get a dirt bike for the trails and a track-only bike for the track? Either would be a better choice than compromising in both environments. For the price of that new Yamaha, 2 used bikes would be a piece of cake to find. If the intention is to ride it in the street at any point, a Ninja 250 > either of these SM singles. Better power, handling, range, comfort, you name it.

she would probably have interest in riding it on the street some. city commuting if anything (easily done without freeways in dallas if you want). keep in mind that my only street legal bike is a dirtbike too though...

[kkim]

I would say the crf230, but look into a crf230l instead of the M.

At her height, she'll hate the Yamaha in the trails.

And speaking of trails/offroad, with either of your choices, she wouldn't get very far with those tires.

To me, a street legalized crf230F is the way to go. Find a nice used one (fairly plentiful), throw a Baja Dual purpose kit on it, a lowering link, uncork the motor and you'll have a ripping street legal on/off road bike with full suspension capabilities. Depending on her amount of street to offroad use, you can change the tires from anywhere between full street tires to full offroad knobbies.

From the description of your GF, it sounds like you need to send her here.

[PsueK]

Originally Posted by kkim

From the description of your GF, it sounds like you need to send her here.

Are you a mind-reader? If so, maybe you can tell Broom which one I prefer
Hey guys!

[Broom]

yeah, send her a plane ticket and i bet i'm out of luck in the girlfriend department

another thing i forgot to mention... if we do end up with the street version, buying an extra set of stock dirt wheels is really easy and cheap. only problem is that it'll be hard to find a good deal on a street version. it'll be cheaper to buy a used dirt and convert it..... but then theres financing.....

[kkim]

um... from my experience with dirt bikes, matching the proper sized dirt bike to the rider's size is a very important consideration.... perhaps more so than choosing the bike itself.

at her size the 230L sounds like the best one "off the shelf". You will get dirt bike capabilities, a low seat height and a fully competent dirt machine with some tweaks. You do give up some suspension travel and weight advantage to the 230F.

You need to be honest in evaluating the intended use of the bike. If it's 50/50 street/dirt, I'd recommend the 230L. if it's greater than 50% dirt, consider a converted 230F.

I always visit Thumper Talk as my 230 resource.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=73

There are many other small dirt bike choices to explore as well as the Honda, but to me the Honda hit the fine line between true dirt bike and play bike well. I would recommend a good used XR200, but the lack of a front disk brake was my main complaint to an other wise perfect trail bike.

Good luck... I wish I could convince my GF to join me in motorcycling.

lol... welcome to the board, Penny.

[Broom]

yeah... thumpertalk is a great resource. i've spent lots of time there. i was just curious what you guys had to say. especially since i knew you had a 230, kelly.

i swear i saw that the 230f and the 230m were only a couple hundred dollars different in price. looking at the honda site i'm seeing almost 1500 dollar difference! not sure why the 230L is so much more than the 230f. the differences between the two don't seem like they'd make that much of a price difference... maybe it has to do with emmisions or registration kinda stuff?

[kkim]

yeah, making a street legal bike from the manufacture always require them to have to jump through all kinda stuff ($$$) to sell it legally. if Texas is pretty lax about allowing dirt bikes to be converted, I would highly recommend the converted 230F route. You can find them used for like $2000 and then add the Baja kit and a trail tech speedo ($300-500) and you're set. You went through the process with your DRZ, so I'm sure you're familiar with Texas laws and what it takes to become street legal.

Just make sure you buy an unabused used bike. I have a Kouba lowering link on my bike and dropped the forks about an inch and it works well.

What is Penny's inseam measurement? Mine is 28-29 and I feel pretty comfortable with this setup.

[Broom]

texas is way easy. bought a cheap (non DOT legal) dual beam light off ebay and hooked one of them through the stock on/off headlight button, and hard wired the other. then got a dual fillament tail light and hooked up some pressure switches to my brake lines. wired up a cheap ass horn to my engine stop button. mounted a new hidden kill switch hidden behind my headlight/fly screen for security (gotta make it a little harder to steal while its out in a parkinglot) .... i think that was it.

all you gotta do to get it inspected is have them fill out the paper work like its an out of state vehicle. i had to go to three shops to get it to pass due to the light and it not having a DOT approved gas tank, but it was easy.

aside from the minimal amount of money i spent on parts, it only cost me about $150 or $200 in taxes and fees to get it inspected and registered as a street legal bike

in all i probably spent under $2000 for the bike and the conversion and registration... and that included a new top end and valves.

[kkim]

I would recommend going that route w/ a 230F, if you can come up with the funds. if not, finance a 230L.


What does she say about all of this?... after all, she's going to be the one riding it.

[lilninja]

i think its a great idea to start riding in the dirt. My husband had me learn on a dirt bike. He wanted me to learn without worrying about cars. Not much help on which bike to get her sorry. good luck

[kkim]

Originally Posted by lilninja

i think its a great idea to start riding in the dirt. My husband had me learn on a dirt bike. He wanted me to learn without worrying about cars. Not much help on which bike to get her sorry. good luck

I totally agree.

In the dirt, you can crash as much as you want and not get hurt as you would on the street. Learning to slide, wheelie, judging available traction, peg weighting, body positioning, etc., are valuable tools one should learn before having to learn them on a street bike in an emergency situation where your life may depend on knowing what to do.

[Broom]

Originally Posted by kkim

I would recommend going that route w/ a 230F, if you can come up with the funds. if not, finance a 230L.


What does she say about all of this?... after all, she's going to be the one riding it.

i think she's already sold on the 230m .... we haven't gone to look at any bikes yet though. we'll see what she says after this weekend.

why do you say the 230L over the 230m? The chances of finding a good deal on a new/used L is probaby better (probably less popular seller at the dealer. probably more out in the used market), but other than that i don't see any advantages.

[kkim]

The L uses "proper" sized wheels tires. Finding knobbies in 17" might prove to be a problem... dunno, I haven't looked. Until you change the tires, the M is useless in the dirt. I see that bike as a marketing gimmick now that SM bikes are so the rage. If you get an M, you may as well look for a full on street/sport bike. Quite frankly, I don't get the whole SM concept for the street.

Also, I believe the M uses a shorter suspension (I could be wrong on this one)? Other than that, I believe it's an L w/ black plastic....plus, aren't they expensive, like over 4k?

[Broom]

the m is only a couple hundred more than the L.... they have the same suspension.

have you done any city commuting on an SM? 10x the fun you can have on a street/sport bike. somethign about riding a dirtbike on the street itself is just fun... then add in the hooligan aspect and the fact that you can hot rod around and have fun while still staying mostly within the limits of the law (try that on a 600 or even the 250) and your grin factor is WAY higher than compared to other bikes.

i commuted daily on a 600 for 3 years. it was fun, but it just doesn't compare to riding a dirtbike around the city.

the 17" wheels makes it more agile and quicker all around. if you put trailwings on there or something similar then you have a fairly capable offroad bike as well as a fun bike around town. those tires suck in the sand and probably arnt the best for hill climbs, but i've done a full day of riding on them and their not bad off road.

finding knobies for the 17s really isn't an issue though since you can usually find the stock off road wheels on ebay for pretty cheap. mount knobbies up to those and it only takes about 20 minutes to prep the bike for full on off road duty.

[sm0kediver]

Have you looked into a Super Sherpa? Replace the front fender and it's ready to go to the woods. 6 speed so it cruises easily on the roads. She'd like the seat height. It lacks some of the features of the Yammy, but it's also a lot more affordable.

[kkim]

Jon,

I think you've covered all the bases. The question is, do you want to end up spending over 5K for the M to be street and dirt capable? If so, go for it!

You should ask the dealer to take a spin out on the M before you agree to purchase to see if it has that fun factor you're looking for. These bikes are waaay underpowered for substantial road work, which you aren't sounding you would be doing anyway.

Again, it depends on what the main use of the bike will be.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by kkim

These bikes are waaay underpowered for substantial road work, which you aren't sounding you would be doing anyway.

Again, it depends on what the main use of the bike will be.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Either of them would be pretty lacking at a trackday as well. Doesn't make either of them bad bikes, but for a combo dirt/street/trackbike are you sure that either one will really do what you and she are looking for?

[Apex]

Street tires going offroad isn't the best thing. I think the 230F is the best route. The last review I read stated a max of 93mpg on the 230F.

Of course you can always get the M, then purchase tires that would work well on/off the street.

I've seen plenty of people running SM bikes at the track. More upright position can be more comfortable too.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by Alex

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Either of them would be pretty lacking at a trackday as well. Doesn't make either of them bad bikes, but for a combo dirt/street/trackbike are you sure that either one will really do what you and she are looking for?

Find an older dirtbike frame, swap in an EX250 motor, you're set.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Apex

I've seen plenty of people running SM bikes at the track.

I've seen plenty of SM's as well, but not a one was < 250 cc. All of them are the DR-Z's, 650's, or the vtwin SM's like the KTM 950/990.

[miks]

Pretty, your commuter looks funky!

[camaroz1985]

What about the KLX 250SF? MSRP $5299



Or the KLX 250S? MSRP $4999

[kkim]

seat heights are high and they are ridiculously heavy. the crf230 is heavy enough. the rider is 5'3".

[PsueK]

Originally Posted by kkim

seat heights are high and they are ridiculously heavy. the crf230 is heavy enough. the rider is 5'3".

I can barely tip my boyfriend's 250 on its bike stand.

[sometimesido]

I find myself drooling over the KLX 250SF, but did not know that the seat height is full 2.2 inches higher then the CRF230M.

[camaroz1985]

I guess I didn't think of the seat height. Forgot the audience

[Broom]

Originally Posted by PsueK

I can barely tip my boyfriend's 250 on its bike stand.

i can't believe you just put a hello kitty on there

[Broom]

Originally Posted by miks

Pretty, your commuter looks funky!

yeah, its the ugliest bike i've ever owned... haha. its still a lot of fun though. especially considering its almost 20 years old

[Alex]

For Broom's benefit:

[PsueK]

Originally Posted by Broom

i can't believe you just put a hello kitty on there

You know I hate that crap, but I gotta remind the board I'm still a girl at heart even though I love speed and fast toys

[kkim]

so, you love birds decide which bike is the target this weekend?





Penny... with a last name of Kim, Jon doesn't stand a chance.

[PsueK]

Originally Posted by kkim

so, you love birds decide which bike is the target this weekend?





Penny... with a last name of Kim, Jon doesn't stand a chance.

KKim, I know right? Don't mess with the Koreans I'm leaning towards the Honda just because it is cheaper and I've been loyal to the brand since its been good to me (at least in the car dept). Also, I don't plan on becoming pro or anything, so it would be a nice first starter bike. Who knows, I might have a change of heart when we go window shopping.

[kkim]

"competitive Korean"... isn't that redundant???
Jon... may God have mercy on your soul.

yeah, I'm normally a Honda fan... cars and bikes, but the Kawasaki 250R is the best in it's class.

which 230??? L or M?

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by PsueK

Who knows, I might have a change of heart when we go window shopping.

It would sure be fun to be a fly on the wall when you guys go shopping.

And Jon, while you're out you might want to get take Penny by the optometrist and get those glasses adjusted so she don't have to keep pushing them back up on her nose - at least that's what I assume she is doing with the particular digit on her hand and not replying to one of your suggestions. .

[sometimesido]

Originally Posted by PsueK

Don't mess with the Koreans

[kkim]

Originally Posted by PsueK

Don't mess with the Koreans

[komohana]

note to self:

wife + forum = x =