suspension advice

[supersport]

I'm thinking about changing the rear shock.

ttx36
mupo ab1
k-tech

How much more am i getting from the ttx36 over the other two?

[adouglas]

I don't have a direct answer for you, not being a suspension expert (want to become more knowledgeable, but so far it's still a black art to me).

However, I will weigh in with two items:

1) I believe that you should address both ends of the bike, not just one. Doesn't make sense to buy a $1000 shock if you still have an undersprung, primitive stock damper rod fork.

2) The R6 track bike I bought last year has Ohlins front and rear, and I got to ride it once before the season ended. Feels like buttah. So... Ohlins suspension is really nice. But you knew that....

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I don't have a direct answer for you, not being a suspension expert (want to become more knowledgeable, but so far it's still a black art to me).

However, I will weigh in with two items:

1) I believe that you should address both ends of the bike, not just one. Doesn't make sense to buy a $1000 shock if you still have an undersprung, primitive stock damper rod fork.

2) The R6 track bike I bought last year has Ohlins front and rear, and I got to ride it once before the season ended. Feels like buttah. So... Ohlins suspension is really nice. But you knew that....

I can confirm, Ohlins is sweet.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by supersport

I'm thinking about changing the rear shock.

ttx36
mupo ab1
k-tech

How much more am i getting from the ttx36 over the other two?

Maybe you send a mail to Klaus Hueneke at Y.S.S. USA http://www.yssusa.com/
and ask him about the MG366-320TRWL-13 shock.
This shock comes with a 80 N spring.
Here I guess the chance to get more information about the GSXR shock conversion should be greater...

[Somchai]

I'd better add a picture of the YSS-Shock(s) for the Ninja for a better understanding.
So here it is

[toEleven]

I can confirm, Ohlins is sweet.

Properly set up suspension is sweet. The other options mentioned here may elicit the same sweet buttery feeling if they're set up to your needs.

I'd aim to get the adjustability required for purpose and rider capability, the right spring rate for the rider, and the expertise required to set it up. If you don't have that expertise, it may be worthwhile to ensure you can access it in your part of the world before you buy.

[sharky nrk]

Who is your local suspension dealer and who has track side support? It is one thing to have a good shock (or fork kit) and another thing all together to have a well setup shock/fork kit and someone to go to for advice on dialing out issues.

I would say find out who deals in what and talk with them.

[supersport]

First thing i do before any mod is get the suspension set up to my weight. Most of the time i change out the rear spring too if its worth it.

Current set up is: racetech emulators, gsxr rear shock.

I want more. The rear is too stiff and it'll cost me another $100 to rebuild it and get the rebound set for my weight. So i'm thinking of using that $100 towards the rear shock.

My track experience is fast 'B' pace at Sonoma, Laguna Seca, and T.Hill. I met the lap time requirement for A group at T.Hill.

Catalyst Reaction is the shop i go to. They recommend ktech because they are a ktech vendor. I'm here to get some 2nd opinions.

I will probably go with k-tech for the front or maybe andreani. I'm surprise no one uses ohlins cartridges. Is it because they down make it for the 250/300?

I know the ohlins ttx30 is good but its $1200 vs a $900 k-tech vs $1200 mupo. This will be the 3rd time i'm changing out the suspension and i'm just going to get the best since doing just the emulators, gsxr shock, springs, plus the fitting and labor was close to $600.

I was leaning towards the ohlins but my shop likes about the ktech and the racers from the shop have the full ktech setup for this season on their 300s.

[Somchai]

@supersport when you already have the Gold Valves Emulators why don't try to setup them properly?
I'm pretty sure that if you talk to the guys from Racetech they will help you to make the best from them.
For 5 years now I follow all the talk and did many research on my own and the most important word to say is:
Don't give too much believe in the talks or recommendations you find in the forums.
Read this all and make your decision from there on, but if you have questions then go and ask those who know about - in this case Racetech-Support.
I'm very sure you'll find competent guys here, but please keep in mind that those know there own business and products since many don't take a look over the edge of the plate (but many talk like they are the masters of the universe).
Important in case of Emulators is from what I'd read and also found out by myself is don't choose the weight of the oil too high, the lower the better but it needs many test-rides and changes.
After reading in many Suzuki forums in Germany one thing for me is clear, the GSXR shock conversion CAN NOT be good for the little Ninja, nearly no 600/750 rider likes the stiffness of the spring (only those with 250 lbs and more).
And it's not only about the spring, the whole linkage system is complete different.
There would be more to say about this, but then I guess we'd talk about sheeps...

[supersport]

@Somchai

The emulators are dialed in for me - oils, springs. My suspension shop is one of the best in northern california. They suggest i look into an elka rear shock to keep the cost down but i don't want to keep upgrading.

And i think your explanation of the gsxr rear is whats i've been thinking the whole time. Its too strong for my weight.

Since i'm getting a top of the line rear shock, i'm thinking my emulators might hold the rear back. I want something comparable so both the front and rear are working together at their peak potential.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by toEleven

Properly set up suspension is sweet. The other options mentioned here may elicit the same sweet buttery feeling if they're set up to your needs.

I'd aim to get the adjustability required for purpose and rider capability, the right spring rate for the rider, and the expertise required to set it up. If you don't have that expertise, it may be worthwhile to ensure you can access it in your part of the world before you buy.

It is not that the ohlins is better suspension, its the adjustability, I have an ohlins shock on my MX bike, and one click of any adjustment makes a difference, on a friends bike I can crank the adjuster in and it hardly makes a difference. Also Ohlins normally have a bunch of cool features like ride height adjustment, or titanium nitrate coating that reduces stiction. In my experience Ohlins is always way more accurate and easy to adjust on all bikes.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by supersport

And i think your explanation of the gsxr rear is whats i've been thinking the whole time. Its too strong for my weight.
.

Fixing that is easy and doesn't require a new shock.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@supersport
Important in case of Emulators is from what I'd read and also found out by myself is don't choose the weight of the oil too high, the lower the better but it needs many test-rides and changes.

FYI fork oil weight should be chosen to set rebound which the emulators have no control over, then you should dial in the emulators to get the compression where you like it. And unless your going to modify the damper rods, your likely going to have to run a bit heavier oil to get the rebound control your looking for for track use.

The second part of that statement is absolutely correct though, its going to be a matter of trial and error based on your weight and riding style. There is no "one size (weight oil) fits all because I have emulators oil weight solution".

[supersport]

@adouglas

I was quoted a minimum of $100 and may cost up to $300 depending on what he finds out when the shock gets taken apart. He said the spring rate seems fine but the rebound is off.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by supersport

@Somchai

The emulators are dialed in for me - oils, springs. My suspension shop is one of the best in northern california. They suggest i look into an elka rear shock to keep the cost down but i don't want to keep upgrading.

And i think your explanation of the gsxr rear is whats i've been thinking the whole time. Its too strong for my weight.

Since i'm getting a top of the line rear shock, i'm thinking my emulators might hold the rear back. I want something comparable so both the front and rear are working together at their peak potential.

Just a "for instance", I have run the Elka, Ohlins, Penske w/vb piston and stock. My best lap times have been with the Ohlins but not by much. An upgraded shock will do wonders over the stocker.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Just a "for instance", I have run the Elka, Ohlins, Penske w/vb piston and stock. My best lap times have been with the Ohlins but not by much. An upgraded shock will do wonders over the stocker.

On the same bike? That is alot of shocks to go through/change. If they were different bikes then lap times can't be 100% compared but I get where you are coming from in that any upgraded shock can be beneficial.

[supersport]

@bruce71198

My shop ran the numbers for the rear shock

elk - $550 installed
tech - $795 before install
Ohlins tt36 - at $1200 plus the vendor "Hardracing" said its a frankenshock thats not specifically made for the ninja 300 so i'm a little skeptical to spend $1200 on a "semi hack job" shock.

What do you think? Is the ktech worth it?

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by supersport

@bruce71198

My shop ran the numbers for the rear shock

elk - $550 installed
tech - $795 before install
Ohlins tt36 - at $1200 plus the vendor "Hardracing" said its a frankenshock thats not specifically made for the ninja 300 so i'm a little skeptical to spend $1200 on a "semi hack job" shock.

What do you think? Is the ktech worth it?

What is the adjustability on the K-Tech, remote reservoir?
I believe the Ohlins for your 300 would be the same as the 250 in which case its a bolt in.

[supersport]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

What is the adjustability on the K-Tech, remote reservoir?
I believe the Ohlins for your 300 would be the same as the 250 in which case its a bolt in.

Yea, the ktech has a remote reservoir. The shop just installed 3 of them for the local race team. The elka set some records 2 seasons ago and the ktech is suppose to be better.

The shop also said that ohlins are good but they are mass produce and arent as good as they use to be, now that they are assemble all over the world with less "in house hands on" construction.

Cant tell if this is a sales pitch. It does sound somewhat legit.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by supersport

I'm thinking about changing the rear shock.

ttx36
mupo ab1
k-tech

How much more am i getting from the ttx36 over the other two?

IMO, nothing but a lighter wallet.

Try to keep in perspective that we are talking about the Ninja 250/300. This is a flexible flyer bike and each of the shocks mentioned so far is so far beyond being up to the task of winning races at the expert level that it's comical. Let alone running at the front of the "B" group.

I bought an adjustable length Fox shock off ebay and am currently having it revalved and resprung for my 250 Ninja. I'll be into it for about $400.00 total including the price of the shock. If I can't win with this shock in any club in the country, it ain't the shock that's the problem. The Ninjette isn't a bike that requires cutting-edge shock technology to function well. That comes from having very relaxed steering geometry and the aforementioned flexible flyer frame. I borrowed a pregen (even more of a flexible flyer) on a Saturday, rode it in practice for about half a day and went out and won on it the next day with marginal tires, emulators in the front, and an SV650 shock in the rear. I'm tellin' ya the bike felt extremely good, and the only thing that I felt was a little chatter from the Continental street tire telling me not to push the front any harder.

If a suspension expert like Ed Sorbo at Lindemann Engineering can take a stock 250 ninja shock apart, add a reservoir and adjustability and make it into a good race shock, that should tell you something about how little these bikes really need to perform well.
If you really want a new shock and you can get the Elka for $550.00, buy it and don't look back.

[supersport]

Originally Posted by tgold

IMO, nothing but a lighter wallet.

Try to keep in perspective that we are talking about the Ninja 250/300. This is a flexible flyer bike and each of the shocks mentioned so far is so far beyond being up to the task of winning races at the expert level that it's comical. Let alone running at the front of the "B" group.

I bought an adjustable length Fox shock off ebay and am currently having it revalved and resprung for my 250 Ninja. I'll be into it for about $400.00 total including the price of the shock. If I can't win with this shock in any club in the country, it ain't the shock that's the problem. The Ninjette isn't a bike that requires cutting-edge shock technology to function well. That comes from having very relaxed steering geometry and the aforementioned flexible flyer frame. I borrowed a pregen (even more of a flexible flyer) on a Saturday, rode it in practice for about half a day and went out and won on it the next day with marginal tires, emulators in the front, and an SV650 shock in the rear. I'm tellin' ya the bike felt extremely good, and the only thing that I felt was a little chatter from the Continental street tire telling me not to push the front any harder.

If a suspension expert like Ed Sorbo at Lindemann Engineering can take a stock 250 ninja shock apart, add a reservoir and adjustability and make it into a good race shock, that should tell you something about how little these bikes really need to perform well.
If you really want a new shock and you can get the Elka for $550.00, buy it and don't look back.

thanks, i went with the elka. and kept the emulators in the front. I'm no where near record setting riding so the ktech would be over kill.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by supersport

thanks, i went with the elka. and kept the emulators in the front. I'm no where near record setting riding so the ktech would be over kill.

I had 2 bikes with Elka's, no complaints and much, much better than stock.

[Mohawk]

Replace the fork internals with cartridges, I just did this with a bitsa mix from a couple of bikes I had spares for. Made a huge difference in the quality of the suspension. I have 41mm front end off a KR1-S on my bike

[TP Ninja]

Unless you're racing, the stock suspension actually works quite well. All Gold Valves are going to give you is a firmer (stiffer) ride. This is a $5000 motorcycle. I accept its limitations and ride and enjoy it. The best return on your money for better handling is better tires.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by TP Ninja

Unless you're racing, the stock suspension actually works quite well. All Gold Valves are going to give you is a firmer (stiffer) ride. This is a $5000 motorcycle. I accept its limitations and ride and enjoy it. The best return on your money for better handling is better tires.

Going to chime in here and disagree. Gold valve emulators allow for adjustment of compression within the forks that features essentially a two stage compression circuit - small orifice for low velocity and a spring valve for high velocity that is some degree able to be tuned.

That is neither firmer or softer necessarily depending on how its setup, how the forks are modified, and what weight oil is put back in. Also I would disagree that you should just accept the stock suspension action. Springs, oil, and GVE can be relatively inexpensive (less than $300) and can make a large difference in the quality of the suspension action.

I do agree that tires are of utmost importance, but tires only work at their best when loaded properly, and quality suspension action can help in that regard. Now a $1200-$1500 shock is pushing into the realm of $$ vs benefit questioning but even still, if you have the money and want to spend it then . It would be incorrect of me to tell someone else its dumb or a waste because I don't have it to spend.

[TP Ninja]

I've had fork emulators on other bikes and they worked fine. I just wouldn't spend one-third of the price of this bike on suspension improvements. Maybe I would spend $1500 if it cost $10K but it costs only $5K. Motorcyclist put a $1000 shock on a long-term R3 and wondered if it could be justified.

[SLOWn60]

Correct springs front & back so your sag is set right and good rubber. Thats all most peeps need to have a great ride.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by TP Ninja

I've had fork emulators on other bikes and they worked fine. I just wouldn't spend one-third of the price of this bike on suspension improvements. Maybe I would spend $1500 if it cost $10K but it costs only $5K. Motorcyclist put a $1000 shock on a long-term R3 and wondered if it could be justified.

From my understanding the rear shock on the R3 is total junk lol but yeah, I feel you on that part. The cost justification is a purely personal thing. There is a reason I have springs/oil/GVE up front and a GSXR shock and links in the rear instead of carts and a penske.