Jetting reassurance - Page 2

choneofakind · October 17th, 2012, 12:46 PM

If the 110's pulled best and the 112's feel like they're bogging, switch to the 110's.

For your mid-range, where was it bogging? Right around 3-4k right after coming off idle with a moderate throttle opening? Or up around 5-6k with moderate throttle openings? Or does it feel a little flat when you gradually roll down to about 1/4 throttle from around 10k?

Do a test. Get in 2nd gear as low as she'll put around (about 2500 rpm will work fine.) Now snap the throttle open, and feel for hesitation/surging or for bogging through the 4-8k range. If the needle height is right, the bike should be able to go from 2500-8000 smoothly and transition completely to the main jet smoothly without bogging or surging.

another test: do lots of gradual roll-on's and roll-off's starting at 4k, 5k, 6k, 7k, 8k, and 9k to see how it responds. I emphasize gradual, because you're looking to test the needle height, not the main jet.

Listen to how the bike sounds: a shallow scream is lean, a really loud bike is rich. You want a deep-throated yowl.

02337 · October 17th, 2012, 12:52 PM

The only problem I noticed with the bike When I had the 110s and 2 washers was like 1/8th throttle 6 gear around 5-7k would surge and break up sound... This sound/feeling is now completely gone with the 112s and 2 washers currently so I assume it was lean. But with 3 washers and the 110's I could barely make it down the road.

choneofakind · October 17th, 2012, 12:56 PM

How thick are your washers? They should be roughly 1/2 of a mm thick.

When I was jetting, I searched through a whole handful of those little washers with a caliper for the thinnest ones I could find. I also made sure that I was using a pair that was as similar in thickness as I could, so both needles were the same height.

02337 · October 17th, 2012, 12:59 PM

Also 112's don't feel boggy just not as perky as the 110s bike doesn't move like it did with the 110s.

I have the same washer on both with the thinnest opening I cod find as the thinner ones I have had too big an opening and was getting the needle stuck up.

choneofakind · October 17th, 2012, 01:03 PM

That means the 112's are still rich, and the 110's are still the better choice.

The washers I have are about 3mm ID and about 6mm OD.

No matter how many changes I made, there was still a slight bog at about 5k. It wasn't all the time, it was just every once in a while, only if I made really small roll-on's. It was just enough to notice, not enough to worry about. I think it's because the needle didn't always return 100% back down to the bottom of the slide. A quicker throttle opening action would get it back where it needed to be, and it worked smoothly without issue. It only happened every once in a while. Is that sort of similar to what you have?

02337 · October 17th, 2012, 01:09 PM

No what I have is 6th gear 7k rpms slight throttle to continue cruising at 60mph and the bike bucking and breaking up(can feel it and hear it). Any gear when there's slight load to keep it driving at the same speed it will do this. Like prior to when the needles open and the slides lift.

Jiggles · October 17th, 2012, 01:17 PM

Get a full exhaust it'll solve all your problems.

High flow intake and low flow exhaust = fail

02337 · October 17th, 2012, 01:31 PM

Well I'm sure there are plenty of people running stock exhaust with pods. I you'd like to donate a full exhaust then by all means I'll give you my address.

02337 · October 18th, 2012, 10:20 AM

One of my mixture screws fell out today on my way to work..../banghead
I really take pride in doing things myself and learning but I think I may put the airbox back on. Anyone have a spare airbox for sale?

rabies · October 18th, 2012, 10:46 AM

dont quit. i would take out the mixture screws. put a tad spray paint on your fingers and dab teh threads and put them back in. it makes them tigh enough they will adjust but not wiggle/vibrate loose.

02337 · October 18th, 2012, 10:53 AM

Well I think the problem is that I lost the mixture screw, I
Hoping it's sitting in a crevice user the carb. Also getting the bike home is going to be fun. I'll do the spray paint trick a you suggested.

After that Im going back to 110's and finding some thinner washers.

choneofakind · October 18th, 2012, 11:43 AM

How far out were your mix screws? You really shouldn't back them out more than about 3 turns, just to be safe. If you find your bike needing them out further than that, you can go up a step on the pilot jet.

02337 · October 18th, 2012, 11:52 AM

Set to exactly 2 and 1/2 turns

choneofakind · October 18th, 2012, 12:08 PM

Huh. I've never had them fall out from 2.5 turns. Good idea on the spray paint.

02337 · October 18th, 2012, 08:04 PM

So after work I decide to look for the mix screws. They were still in the carb but just rattled loose. I put a small amount of hair gel on the theead(ghetto I know but it's all I had in te bag lol)

Bike idles better but now it's bucking/hesitating again at 60 mph 6th gear with just enough throttle to maintain 60. If I don't give it anymore throttle it starts to drown out even more.
This wasn't the case yesterday as bike seemed to run great for over 100 miles besides being a little lacking on power.

Would bucking and hesitating seem rich or lean?
I'm off tomorrow so I'm going to tear into it and put the 110s back in.

choneofakind · October 18th, 2012, 09:22 PM

Bogging is rich.

hesitating/surging is lean.

Are all your carb parts in good condition? like the diaphragms and everything?

02337 · October 18th, 2012, 09:53 PM

Yes I checked everything everytime no tears no rips, now let me go a little in more in depth with what was happening, as I rode home the bike biked and surged so bad but then sometimes it would randomly take off and I did no throttle change. Could this possibly be a electrical coil issue?

choneofakind · October 18th, 2012, 09:58 PM

lean in that area.

October 17th, 2012, 01:17 PM	#47
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Get a full exhaust it'll solve all your problems. High flow intake and low flow exhaust = fail __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

October 18th, 2012, 10:46 AM	#50
rabies time is running out.... Name: jesse Location: the land of corn Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): pregen ninjari Posts: 412 Blog Entries: 3	dont quit. i would take out the mixture screws. put a tad spray paint on your fingers and dab teh threads and put them back in. it makes them tigh enough they will adjust but not wiggle/vibrate loose. __________________________________________________ The King

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October 17th, 2012, 12:46 PM	#41
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	If the 110's pulled best and the 112's feel like they're bogging, switch to the 110's. For your mid-range, where was it bogging? Right around 3-4k right after coming off idle with a moderate throttle opening? Or up around 5-6k with moderate throttle openings? Or does it feel a little flat when you gradually roll down to about 1/4 throttle from around 10k? Do a test. Get in 2nd gear as low as she'll put around (about 2500 rpm will work fine.) Now snap the throttle open, and feel for hesitation/surging or for bogging through the 4-8k range. If the needle height is right, the bike should be able to go from 2500-8000 smoothly and transition completely to the main jet smoothly without bogging or surging. another test: do lots of gradual roll-on's and roll-off's starting at 4k, 5k, 6k, 7k, 8k, and 9k to see how it responds. I emphasize gradual, because you're looking to test the needle height, not the main jet. Listen to how the bike sounds: a shallow scream is lean, a really loud bike is rich. You want a deep-throated yowl.

October 17th, 2012, 12:52 PM	#42
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	The only problem I noticed with the bike When I had the 110s and 2 washers was like 1/8th throttle 6 gear around 5-7k would surge and break up sound... This sound/feeling is now completely gone with the 112s and 2 washers currently so I assume it was lean. But with 3 washers and the 110's I could barely make it down the road.

October 17th, 2012, 12:56 PM	#43
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	How thick are your washers? They should be roughly 1/2 of a mm thick. When I was jetting, I searched through a whole handful of those little washers with a caliper for the thinnest ones I could find. I also made sure that I was using a pair that was as similar in thickness as I could, so both needles were the same height.

October 17th, 2012, 12:59 PM	#44
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	Also 112's don't feel boggy just not as perky as the 110s bike doesn't move like it did with the 110s. I have the same washer on both with the thinnest opening I cod find as the thinner ones I have had too big an opening and was getting the needle stuck up.

October 17th, 2012, 01:03 PM	#45
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	That means the 112's are still rich, and the 110's are still the better choice. The washers I have are about 3mm ID and about 6mm OD. No matter how many changes I made, there was still a slight bog at about 5k. It wasn't all the time, it was just every once in a while, only if I made really small roll-on's. It was just enough to notice, not enough to worry about. I think it's because the needle didn't always return 100% back down to the bottom of the slide. A quicker throttle opening action would get it back where it needed to be, and it worked smoothly without issue. It only happened every once in a while. Is that sort of similar to what you have?

October 17th, 2012, 01:09 PM	#46
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	No what I have is 6th gear 7k rpms slight throttle to continue cruising at 60mph and the bike bucking and breaking up(can feel it and hear it). Any gear when there's slight load to keep it driving at the same speed it will do this. Like prior to when the needles open and the slides lift.

October 17th, 2012, 01:31 PM	#48
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	Well I'm sure there are plenty of people running stock exhaust with pods. I you'd like to donate a full exhaust then by all means I'll give you my address.

October 18th, 2012, 10:20 AM	#49
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	One of my mixture screws fell out today on my way to work..../banghead I really take pride in doing things myself and learning but I think I may put the airbox back on. Anyone have a spare airbox for sale?

October 18th, 2012, 10:53 AM	#51
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	Well I think the problem is that I lost the mixture screw, I Hoping it's sitting in a crevice user the carb. Also getting the bike home is going to be fun. I'll do the spray paint trick a you suggested. After that Im going back to 110's and finding some thinner washers.

October 18th, 2012, 11:43 AM	#52
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	How far out were your mix screws? You really shouldn't back them out more than about 3 turns, just to be safe. If you find your bike needing them out further than that, you can go up a step on the pilot jet.

October 18th, 2012, 11:52 AM	#53
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	Set to exactly 2 and 1/2 turns

October 18th, 2012, 12:08 PM	#54
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Huh. I've never had them fall out from 2.5 turns. Good idea on the spray paint.

October 18th, 2012, 08:04 PM	#55
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	So after work I decide to look for the mix screws. They were still in the carb but just rattled loose. I put a small amount of hair gel on the theead(ghetto I know but it's all I had in te bag lol) Bike idles better but now it's bucking/hesitating again at 60 mph 6th gear with just enough throttle to maintain 60. If I don't give it anymore throttle it starts to drown out even more. This wasn't the case yesterday as bike seemed to run great for over 100 miles besides being a little lacking on power. Would bucking and hesitating seem rich or lean? I'm off tomorrow so I'm going to tear into it and put the 110s back in.

October 18th, 2012, 09:22 PM	#56
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Bogging is rich. hesitating/surging is lean. Are all your carb parts in good condition? like the diaphragms and everything?

October 18th, 2012, 09:53 PM	#57
02337 ninjette.org member Name: George Location: Delaware Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 03 ninja 250 Posts: 201	Yes I checked everything everytime no tears no rips, now let me go a little in more in depth with what was happening, as I rode home the bike biked and surged so bad but then sometimes it would randomly take off and I did no throttle change. Could this possibly be a electrical coil issue?

October 18th, 2012, 09:58 PM	#58
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	lean in that area.