Oil Pressure Light Staying on at Start Up

[spacemonkey]

So I have noticed since I got the bike about a month ago when I start up the bike in the mornings my oil pressure light has been staying on longer and longer. At first it was on for a second or two when I first started it then it would go out. Lately its been on for about 10 - 20 seconds after start up.

Today it didn't go out until I finally tipped the bike upright off of the kick stand into riding position. I also noticed that the water temp light was on this morning and went out at the same time as the oil pressure light.

My drive way is slanted so maybe this has something to do with the oil pickup not being submerged but then I would expect in a hard corner I would have the same issue.

I checked the oil level in the sight glass and it was about at the middle when idling. After I got to work I let it sit for a while and then checked it and the oil level is at the top of the site glass with the bike level.

The dealer told me the did an oil change on it before I bought it and that it wasn't due for a full year.

The light never comes on when I am riding it's just at start up.

Is this light staying on at start up a common thing or should I be concerned?

[Sirref]

when in doubt do an oil change, it goes by mileage and how hard you ride not time.

the light should appear at startup, to prove to the owner it works, but disappear as you turn the bike on, if it stays on while the engine is running there's likely an issue that needs to be addressed

[spacemonkey]

That's kind of what I was afraid of. I am really hoping it's a an issue with the light this morning because the temp light also stayed on way longer than normal.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

... my oil pressure light has been staying on longer and longer. At first it was on for a second or two when I first started it then it would go out. Lately its been on for about 10 - 20 seconds after start up.

Today it didn't go out until I finally tipped the bike upright off of the kick stand into riding position. I also noticed that the water temp light was on this morning and went out at the same time as the oil pressure light.

My drive way is slanted so maybe this has something to do with the oil pickup not being submerged but then I would expect in a hard corner I would have the same issue.

I checked the oil level in the sight glass and it was about at the middle when idling. After I got to work I let it sit for a while and then checked it and the oil level is at the top of the site glass with the bike level.

The dealer told me the did an oil change on it before I bought it and that it wasn't due for a full year.

The light never comes on when I am riding it's just at start up.

Is this light staying on at start up a common thing or should I be concerned?

Your whole scenario sounds strange. The oil light should come on at engine start up, but should go out within 3-5 seconds of the engine running.

You should not see any oil in the sight glass while the engine is running.

Oil level should be checked with the bike level on both wheels on a level surface. There is a very high probability that the bike is not entirely level when you check it. This can make the oil level seem high or low. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...4&postcount=10

Improper idle speed can also make the oil light stay on longer than normal at start up. If the idle speed is too low, low oil pressure will result.

Unless your driveway is slanted and your bike is facing downhill, you should not have a problem with oil pressure with the bike leaned over.

If you oil level was too low or too high, you'd have other symptoms to indicate a problem. Troubleshooting Guide

[cadd]

Always check oil level with the bike off (wait a few mins before checking). You said this method yielded oil at the very top of thr sight glass. Are you able to see where it goes up to? Or is the entire sight glass completely filled with oil? They may have put too much oil in the bike. But I don't know if that will trigger the oil pressure light.

Perhaps it's time to do your own oil change just for the peace of mind that it is done correctly.

My 250r takes about 2.5 quarts of oil with a filter change.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by cadd

Always check oil level with the bike off (wait a few mins before checking). You said this method yielded oil at the very top of thr sight glass. Are you able to see where it goes up to? Or is the entire sight glass completely filled with oil? They may have put too much oil in the bike. But I don't know if that will trigger the oil pressure light.

Perhaps it's time to do your own oil change just for the peace of mind that it is done correctly.

My 250r takes about 2.5 quarts of oil with a filter change.

That seems like a lot. Mine takes almost exactly 1.8 quarts with a filter change, which is what the book says it should take.

[cadd]

Doh!!! I mean 1.5 quarts! Sorry. I start with 1.5 quarts and top off as needed. Again, sorry for the typo.

[alex.s]

sometimes oil pumps degrade for a variety of reasons and the gears don't seal fully and they don't produce as much pressure. you can put a real oil pressure sensor on the line going to the head and see how much pressure its making. when they are really cold they don't make very much pressure.

[alex.s]

maybe the oil pickup is leaking air?

[alex.s]

maybe its got 5w40 instead of 10w40?

[CajunNinjaR]

Mine goes off after the first few seconds normally but I have noticed sometimes it stays on for around 30-45 seconds, its always done that since I got it with 1,982 miles. I think its normal but definatly change your oil every 3,000 miles! If you ride everyday you may be riding 15,000 miles in a year thats way too long without an oil change.
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[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CajunNinjaR

it stays on for around 30-45 seconds, its always done that since I got it with 1,982 miles. I think its normal

that isn't normal. it should go off right away. if it doesn't go off that means your oil pressure is too low and you are probably damaging your crank and cams

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by alex.s

maybe its got 5w40 instead of 10w40?

Just out of curiosity, how would this affect the time it take the oil pressure light to turn off? 5w40 should flow better at startup, reducing the time to build pressure in the system, shouldn't it?

[CajunNinjaR]

Oh bother, I think a real pressure gauge is in my future. I never did trust that light. I hope it didn't do any damage, it sure sounds fine, and I make sure the light goes off before I rev the engine or set off.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jkv45]

I would change the oil and filter myself, and check the oil screen (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checking_the_oil_screen). A partially plugged screen might be restricting flow.

Using a 5W-40 oil is fine, and a good idea in cold temps. It gives you more flow (what you need) for adequate lubrication on cold starts, but the oil pressure will be less - which isn't usually a problem.

For your situation I might go with a 10W-40 for now. Use a cycle-specific oil, never a standard auto oil.

[spacemonkey]

Thanks for all the feed back guys.

So I had a friend hold the bike upright to be sure I wasn't leaning it while looking at the sight glass and it is full to the point you can't see the top (might be slightly overfull). I don't remember it ever being much more than half full before which concerns me. Also the oil is now really black. I had bought the bike from a dealer about two months ago and the oil was a normal amber color and had supposedly just been changed.

The bike is a 2011 and only had about 2000 miles on it then. It now has about 3600 miles on it so in two months I have almost doubled the mileage on a 3 year old bike. This thing probably sat for a long time without being used and now I am using it for commuting during the week but the drive is only about 8 miles on city streets in stop and go. The rest of the mileage has been playing in the canyons on the weekends.

The comment about idle speed might be part of it. It is slow to start in the mornings now that the temperature is starting to dip into the low 60's. I will have to check if the light stays on when I start it tonight for the ride home after it has been sitting in the warmer weather all day.

Someone had commented that with it running I shouldn't see oil in the sight glass but I do if the bike is upright. When it's on the stand and running you can not see the oil level. Is this an indication it might be to full?

I am handy with cars so I am sure I can figure out an oil change on the bike this weekend.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

Thanks for all the feed back guys.

So I had a friend hold the bike upright to be sure I wasn't leaning it while looking at the sight glass and it is full to the point you can't see the top (might be slightly overfull). I don't remember it ever being much more than half full before which concerns me. Also the oil is now really black. I had bought the bike from a dealer about two months ago and the oil was a normal amber color and had supposedly just been changed.

The bike is a 2011 and only had about 2000 miles on it then. It now has about 3600 miles on it so in two months I have almost doubled the mileage on a 3 year old bike. This thing probably sat for a long time without being used and now I am using it for commuting during the week but the drive is only about 8 miles on city streets in stop and go. The rest of the mileage has been playing in the canyons on the weekends.

The comment about idle speed might be part of it. It is slow to start in the mornings now that the temperature is starting to dip into the low 60's. I will have to check if the light stays on when I start it tonight for the ride home after it has been sitting in the warmer weather all day.

Someone had commented that with it running I shouldn't see oil in the sight glass but I do if the bike is upright. When it's on the stand and running you can not see the oil level. Is this an indication it might be to full?

I am handy with cars so I am sure I can figure out an oil change on the bike this weekend.

Because of your short commute, you are getting a fair amount of contamination in the oil. It takes time at operating temp (of the oil, not the coolant) to burn it off, and it may not be hot long enough to do it.

Make sure you are turning off the choke as soon as possible, use just enough to get it to idle about 2000. Set the hot idle to 1300.

Change the oil with 10W-40, and clean the screen, and see if there's any change.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

So I had a friend hold the bike upright to be sure I wasn't leaning it while looking at the sight glass and it is full to the point you can't see the top (might be slightly overfull).

IMO, that's too full. I say you do an oil change to see if it changes anything.

I had the same problem with oil increasing. Like you, I was commuting in the early spring when it was only in the 40s-50s in the am. My commute is less than 5 miles. So the engine doesn't really get to heat up properly.

I also suspected gasoline was leaking through the petcock into the carbs, pass the floats and into the crank case. I had an oil analysis done. Negative for gasoline.

Take off the oil fill cap and take a sniff. Is there an overpowering smell of gasoline in there?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Just out of curiosity, how would this affect the time it take the oil pressure light to turn off? 5w40 should flow better at startup, reducing the time to build pressure in the system, shouldn't it?

5w-40 means when its cold, it behaves like a 5 weight oil. when its hot, it behaves like a 40 weight.

when single viscosity oil warms up, it gets less viscous.

but a 5w oil is less viscous than a 15w oil, when they are at the same temperature.

multiviscosity oil means that the oil does not change viscosity as much as a single viscosity oil would. as in, when it heats up, it doesn't thin out as much.

so if it was single viscosity 40 weight... when it got cold, it would be much too thick. if it was single viscosity 15 weight... when it got hot, it would be much too thin.

engines are made of metal. metal changes size when it heats up. every single clearance on the engine is "incorrect" when it is cold. only once they are hot do they take the correct clearances. the clearances they take up when cold are very different. the cold weight of the oil must match these cold clearances. if the cold weight oil doesn't correctly match the cold clearances of the engine, you get bearing and oil pump wear.

when a lubrication system is designed for a maximum amount of viscosity for the given clearances (e.g. on ours, 15w cold) when you try to push oil with less viscosity through it (10w, 5w, cold) then the oil pump won't produce as much pressure until it warms up and those clearances tighten up. the crank and cams also will have too much clearance until it warms up.

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the cold weight of the oil must match these cold clearances. if the cold weight oil doesn't correctly match the cold clearances of the engine, you get bearing and oil pump wear.

Ah, this was the key for me; I didn't take that into account. Someone who is able give this guy a helpful post rating!

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

Thanks for all the feed back guys.

So I had a friend hold the bike upright to be sure I wasn't leaning it while looking at the sight glass and it is full to the point you can't see the top (might be slightly overfull). I don't remember it ever being much more than half full before which concerns me. Also the oil is now really black. I had bought the bike from a dealer about two months ago and the oil was a normal amber color and had supposedly just been changed.



Overfull is a very unhealthy situation for the engine... pump is having trouble moving around excessive oil resulting in a major oil pressure decrease...




The bike is a 2011 and only had about 2000 miles on it then. It now has about 3600 miles on it so in two months I have almost doubled the mileage on a 3 year old bike. This thing probably sat for a long time without being used and now I am using it for commuting during the week but the drive is only about 8 miles on city streets in stop and go. The rest of the mileage has been playing in the canyons on the weekends.

The comment about idle speed might be part of it. It is slow to start in the mornings now that the temperature is starting to dip into the low 60's. I will have to check if the light stays on when I start it tonight for the ride home after it has been sitting in the warmer weather all day.





idle speed is definetely part of it... the question is: in what way ??
I have seen oil overfilled bike engines having trouble keeping the same idle speed they had before an oil change because too much oil toughens engine revving, especially at idle speed... then if you adjust idle speed you just have an engine striving to work properly with every consequence that might have in the long term...





Someone had commented that with it running I shouldn't see oil in the sight glass but I do if the bike is upright. When it's on the stand and running you can not see the oil level. Is this an indication it might be to full?




that is a definite sign of oil overfilling !!




I am handy with cars so I am sure I can figure out an oil change on the bike this weekend.

before changing oil I would suggest trying to take out about 0,5L of oil and try starting it up again... if light goes off quickly, then overfilling was your only problem. If it continues staying on, two things I believe might be occuring. One is oil viscosity was improper for your engine as Alex S. pointed out but I believe it is some thicker than suggested oil (eg 20W-50)
Two (I have seen it being the reason for long lighting of oil pressure on FI engines) someone has forgotten placing properly (or having not placed at all) a rubber "washer" part of the oil filter assembly that goes beneath the spring... you need to check this out too IMHO...
of course best thing to do is indeed to change the oil yourself, as others have suggested, placing all parts properly and using an oil viscosity appropriate to your climate and riding conditions...

P.S. when taking out aither part or all of the oil currently in engine, place it in a big pan and have it thoroughly inspected for metal debree after it has settled for a while...

[spacemonkey]

Ok, I will check it to see if I smell gas in the oil and also change it and the filter. I am also going to drop the screen and check it out to be sure there isn't anything clogging it. I need to pick up some a gasket, filter and oil sounds like.

[broilmebk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

maybe its got 5w40 instead of 10w40?

This was my thought as well

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Using a 5W-40 oil is fine

why do you think this is true?

colder climate oils typically go up in weight, not down.


like how they tell you in your car to use 20w-50 in extra cold climates.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Ah, this was the key for me; I didn't take that into account. Someone who is able give this guy a helpful post rating!

Request confirmed.

[spacemonkey]

So I gave the oil a sniff test and there isn't a strong gas smell. Also I started it up when it was warm three times today and the light didn't stay on more than 3 seconds. It's only in the morning when it's cold (low 60s) that it's staying on for a significant time period.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

why do you think this is true?

colder climate oils typically go up in weight, not down.


like how they tell you in your car to use 20w-50 in extra cold climates.

Because it is.

That's backward.

You use an oil with a low rating (5W) in cold climates - not a high rating (20W). The "W" rating of a multi-grade oil is taken at 0F and gives the equivalent flow characteristic of a straight-grade oil at that temp.

In really cold area (Canada, Alaska) you would use a 0W oil to get better cold cranking and improve lubrication on cold starts.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Because it is.

I was wrong about using thick **** in winter, so you're right. you sound like you know what you are talking about so i have some questions i had a hard time answering:

what is the difference in cst between 5w and 10w at 50f? (average low in bay area)

what cst is 5w oil at 100f?

what cst is 5w-40 oil at 120f?

how much does a steel block grow from thermal expansion between 50f and 100f?

what about between 100f and 200f?

[alex.s]

by the way, they grade the cst of "winter"/cold temp multiviscosity oils at 40c and hot at 100c. they do not publish anything at 0c... when you say "The "W" rating of a multi-grade oil is taken at 0F"... 100f... not 0f...


this is a good page to read: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/


also this is a good one for learning about metals and stuff: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...ents-d_95.html http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/th...pes-d_283.html

[jkv45]

I'm giving you the basic information. If you want more specific info you will need to look around.

Read this - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

As far as the "W" rating temp goes - This link - http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change.htm - states -

"Oil weight, or viscosity, refers to how thick or thin the oil is. The temperature requirements set for oil by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) is 0 degrees F (low) and 210 degrees F (high)."

More - http://www.ideas4ag-ed.com/uploads/3..._viscosity.pdf

[spacemonkey]

So I changed the oil, the filter and the screen this weekend and now when I started it up the oil light went out almost immediately regardless if it's warm or cold. Must have been a clogged filter. There was some trash in the screen as well so I am glad I pulled that out and changed it. I could have got away with cleaning it but the new one was only a couple bucks.

[bogiejr]

Working to find solutions.

[Triple Jim]

I'm glad I read this, since I'm planning an oil and filter change soon.

[bogiejr]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

I'm glad I read this, since I'm planning an oil and filter change soon.

Don't fear the oil change. Its straight forward. However, this issue is legit. Haven't had this issue until 10K and it keeps reoccuring. Experimenting right now to find the problem.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by bogiejr

Don't fear the oil change. Its straight forward. However, this issue is legit. Haven't had this issue until 10K and it keeps reoccuring. Experimenting right now to find the problem.

If it's fine for a while after changing the oil, then it reoccurs, I would look at fuel leaking into the oil due to a petcock/fuel valve problem.

That, or the oil screen could be partially plugged.

[bogiejr]

Originally Posted by jkv45

If it's fine for a while after changing the oil, then it reoccurs, I would look at fuel leaking into the oil due to a petcock/fuel valve problem.

That, or the oil screen could be partially plugged.

I'm going for the oil screen this weekend. After I crack the filter, it's good but after a high rev drive, it goes back to having a problem again. Oil light issues is only at startup. It has never come on once primed or running. It's having trouble getting that initial prime. Does sound like a filter or screen issue.

Has anyone investigated the oil filter o-rings or seals?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by bogiejr

I'm going for the oil screen this weekend. After I crack the filter, it's good but after a high rev drive, it goes back to having a problem again. Oil light issues is only at startup. It has never come on once primed or running. It's having trouble getting that initial prime. Does sound like a filter or screen issue.

Has anyone investigated the oil filter o-rings or seals?

What oil are you running? So the light comes on when you start it hot after sitting?

The WIX filters we use comes with a new o-ring for the cover.

I'm guessing the screen needs cleaning.

[bogiejr]

Originally Posted by jkv45

What oil are you running? So the light comes on when you start it hot after sitting?

The WIX filters we use comes with a new o-ring for the cover.

I'm guessing the screen needs cleaning.

I'm guessing the same and will remove cover for inspection. Have a magnetic drain plug for this change and will be doing it tomorrow. I use Kawi filters and oil light can delay after warmed up but only after shut down. Never any other time except startup. Once out, it stays out.

Castrol Act-Evo 10W-40

[juliusmichaelhonrada]

my oil is since 2010 and the filter i dont know if its still from 1987 , but my oil light would come out as the starter motor is spinning the engine is not even started

[bogiejr]

Originally Posted by juliusmichaelhonrada

my oil is since 2010 and the filter i dont know if its still from 1987 , but my oil light would come out as the starter motor is spinning the engine is not even started

That's a good pump and oil circulation then!