Trick out my 250 or go for a 300?

[Han Solo 1]

Dammit, you guys are right.

I'm not going to do a single thing to the 250. I will ride it and sell it in April or May, when it's easier to get what I want out of it. If I can get $2700 for it I'll be happy.

I just have to be patient. Dammit.

[nickjpass]

Get a supermoto

[old3]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Get a supermoto

Much to be said for this, or a DS even. If you need a 2 up bike on the cheap end, the 300 is hard to beat for small displacement and ability.

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by old3

Much to be said for this, or a DS even. If you need a 2 up bike on the cheap end, the 300 is hard to beat for small displacement and ability.

I don't need 2-up, as my wife is terrified of motorcycles and won't ever get near it.

I also want to stay away from anything too big, because I just don't want to pay through the nose on insurance. $200 a year is tough to beat.

In all honesty, this is a commuter for me mainly, and some mountain twisty riding with some friends on a few weekends in the summer. I don't need something that will take me to 80mph in 1st gear.

[Han Solo 1]

Another question:

If I do go the 300 route, should I go for ABS? I'm not sure if it's as good a feature as advertised. Does it really increase safety all that much, and is it worth the extra $$?

[old3]

Consider the can open and the worms are spilt everywhere now.



I' a no ABS guy. I'm a dirt race guy, expert vet, lots of miles, not interested in it. I adjust my speeds to the conditions or I pay the price. I'm good with that.

It is a personal choice for now. Soon it won't be. I'd rather have better brakes than crappy ones with ABS.

Watch my "GSXR brake caliper mounted" thread for a new development in easy, cheap and much better Ninja 250/300 brakes later today!

[alex.s]

buy a 300. they are way better than a tricked out 250.

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by old3

Consider the can open and the worms are spilt everywhere now.

I just watched this, and I'm convinced.

[kdogg2077]

If you can afford it I see no rational argument against ABS.

[KawiKid860]

What happened to the SV without ABS will only happen if you mash your brakes and lock both wheels.... ABS should never be a substitute for knowing what you're doing.

[kdogg2077]

Wouldn't it be best to know what you're doing AND have ABS? Even the most skilled rider could make a mistake.


Arguing that ABS is no substitute for good skills isn't an argument to get rid of ABS. It's an argument to practice sound braking technique. They aren't mutually exclusive.

The difference is like $500. I'd gladly pay that for ABS.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Wouldn't it be best to know what you're doing AND have ABS? Even the most skilled rider could make a mistake.


Arguing that ABS is no substitute for good skills isn't an argument to get rid of ABS. It's an argument to practice sound braking technique. They aren't mutually exclusive.

The difference is like $500. I'd gladly pay that for ABS.

I wasn't arguing against ABS, I was simply stating a fact. I'm just saying that just because you don't have ABS doesn't mean you're going to go down if you need to brake hard in less than ideal conditions, like the video depicts. Knowing what you're doing goes a long way before you need rider aids. If you can afford it ABS is definitely worth it, but the 300 is already out of the OPs price range so an extra $500 would put it further away from him when it's more of a luxury than a necessity. Not everyone has an extra $500 to throw around here or there.

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

I wasn't arguing against ABS, I was simply stating a fact. I'm just saying that just because you don't have ABS doesn't mean you're going to go down if you need to brake hard in less than ideal conditions, like the video depicts. Knowing what you're doing goes a long way before you need rider aids. If you can afford it ABS is definitely worth it, but the 300 is already out of the OPs price range so an extra $500 would put it further away from him when it's more of a luxury than a necessity. Not everyone has an extra $500 to throw around here or there.

Good point. But I do think that the ABS is worth the extra month or so of saving up. I agree with you that ABS shouldn't be a crutch to riders, but you never know when you'll need it. I think if I do go for the 300, I can wait a little longer to afford the ABS model.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

Good point. But I do think that the ABS is worth the extra month or so of saving up. I agree with you that ABS shouldn't be a crutch to riders, but you never know when you'll need it. I think if I do go for the 300, I can wait a little longer to afford the ABS model.

Sounds like a good plan, whatever works best for you! I'd personally go for one without ABS for the lower price tag and less complexity, but that's just me. I'm thinking of financing a lightly used DRZ400SM come spring time, it's tempting to pick up a 300 instead but I've had my heart set on a supermoto for way too long to make the mistake of buying another sportbike again. They're around the same power stock anyways, but the DRZ can just do so much more and has a lot more performance potential.

[agentbad]

$4100 could get you a used fz6 or sv650 easy. Consider more then just the 300 is all I am saying.

[antiant]

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

Another question:

If I do go the 300 route, should I go for ABS? I'm not sure if it's as good a feature as advertised. Does it really increase safety all that much, and is it worth the extra $$?

If you have the money go for it, if you have to save for it, then don't do it. It seems like you want something now and or immediate, which basically concludes 300 without ABS (unless you can find a really sweet deal).

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by antiant

If you have the money go for it, if you have to save for it, then don't do it. It seems like you want something now and or immediate, which basically concludes 300 without ABS (unless you can find a really sweet deal).

Nah, I'm willing to wait a while. As long as I can get something by July or so, I can wait.

[oblivion007]

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

I'd love to, but haven't seen a used 300 for under $5000 (ABQ, NM).

Just the looks of the thing is more fun. The fairings and headlight are beautiful.

You're close enough.
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/mcy/4328722991.html

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

Not really looking to get anything bigger than around 300 to 500 cc's. Don't want to lose an arm and a leg in insurance.

don't be fooled by engine cc size when it comes to insurance. I learned recently that if I were to get a Triumph street triple R my insurance would go down significantly from a ninja 300. Hilariously enough I love the triumph and it will be my next long term bike if I don't go for a dual sport wr250x instead.
speaking of, I highly recommend dual sports, they're fun as hell on and off road, have reasonable insurance and put out great power to weight ratios for their motor sizes. A wr250x has similar power to a ninja 300, is geared lower, and weighs a good amount less. They're perfect for basically everything other than highway riding and 2up riding (you can still do it but there are way better bikes for it out there) the DRZ400SM is pretty much the same except with a bit more power and a not as good stock suspension setup.

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

Good point. But I do think that the ABS is worth the extra month or so of saving up. I agree with you that ABS shouldn't be a crutch to riders, but you never know when you'll need it. I think if I do go for the 300, I can wait a little longer to afford the ABS model.

the only thing I've ever used my abs for is to not lock up the rear brake from time to time, it's saved some tire life as a result of that but that's about it. It's nice to have but most of the time I feel like it only provides a placebo effect instead of real usefulness since you won't activate it if you're doing everything right anyway. For beginners it's huge since in the event of a panic stop a lot of people just grab a handful of front brake and lock the front up when they could have stopped successfully if they had a more progressive braking approach.

A good way to think about brakes in general is as if they are an extension of your throttle except in the opposite manner. This analogy applies more to faster bikes but it works with the 250/300 as well. On a sports bike you wouldn't just pin it out of nowhere (unless you're on a 250/300) since then the front wheel will pop off the ground and that can complicate things a bit, instead you roll on the throttle. Just as you would roll on the throttle to slow down you roll off the throttle and smoothly apply the brakes until maximum braking. Just as you can roll on a throttle quickly you can also apply braking power fairly quickly. However, just as you cannot straight up pin the throttle from nothing without issue (exclusion 250/300) you also cannot grab the brakes and jump to full braking from nothing, or worse throttle pinned, without issue.

This all said, I support ABS as a rider aid that does not replace rider skill and knowledge.

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by oblivion007

You're close enough.
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/mcy/4328722991.html

Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by Sirref

........Hilariously enough I love the triumph and it will be my next long term bike if I don't go for a dual sport wr250x instead.
speaking of, I highly recommend dual sports......

.......It's nice to have but most of the time I feel like it only provides a placebo effect instead of real usefulness since you won't activate it if you're doing everything right anyway......
This all said, I support ABS as a rider aid that does not replace rider skill and knowledge.

Thanks for the info! That triumph is a sweet looking bike, I like it!

As far as dual sports, I just don't like the way they look, the tall seat height, and the fact that they don't seem heavy enough for highway usage. So that's not an option on my end.

And about ABS, I agree that you won't require its use very much, but there are some situations where rider skill and knowledge won't be enough. For example, last summer I was riding home from work and was going down a one lane road, doing the speed limit, hardly any traffic, and no one really in front of me. I saw this woman in her Camaro on a side street, waiting to turn onto the street and go in the direction I was traveling. As I approached her, I kept my speed, flashed my highbeams, and drifted as far to the left as possible, in case she was an idiot and shot out in front of me anyway. Remembering from my MSF course, I kept an eye on her wheels to see any movement, ready to brake if necessary. She gave no indication of movement. As I got almost in front of her, she decided to take off. I'm talking like 10 feet away. I braked hard, my back wheel locked and wiggled, and she suddenly stopped; I guess she was scared.

I have no idea why she did that. I saw her look straight at me when I flashed my brights.

But I do remember the sick feeling of my back tire sliding, wanting to fishtail and throw me into the median or worse yet, into the other opposite-traffic lane. I don't think rolling off the throttle and gradually/gently applying brake pressure ever entered into my mind, and I don't consider myself a noob.

Would ABS have saved me if she hadn't stopped? Maybe, maybe not. But I wouldn't have had the added danger of fishtailing on top of everything else.

I think it's wise to have it, just in case.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

Thanks for the tip!



Thanks for the info! That triumph is a sweet looking bike, I like it!

As far as dual sports, I just don't like the way they look, the tall seat height, and the fact that they don't seem heavy enough for highway usage. So that's not an option on my end.

And about ABS, I agree that you won't require its use very much, but there are some situations where rider skill and knowledge won't be enough. For example, last summer I was riding home from work and was going down a one lane road, doing the speed limit, hardly any traffic, and no one really in front of me. I saw this woman in her Camaro on a side street, waiting to turn onto the street and go in the direction I was traveling. As I approached her, I kept my speed, flashed my highbeams, and drifted as far to the left as possible, in case she was an idiot and shot out in front of me anyway. Remembering from my MSF course, I kept an eye on her wheels to see any movement, ready to brake if necessary. She gave no indication of movement. As I got almost in front of her, she decided to take off. I'm talking like 10 feet away. I braked hard, my back wheel locked and wiggled, and she suddenly stopped; I guess she was scared.

I have no idea why she did that. I saw her look straight at me when I flashed my brights.

But I do remember the sick feeling of my back tire sliding, wanting to fishtail and throw me into the median or worse yet, into the other opposite-traffic lane. I don't think rolling off the throttle and gradually/gently applying brake pressure ever entered into my mind, and I don't consider myself a noob.

Would ABS have saved me if she hadn't stopped? Maybe, maybe not. But I wouldn't have had the added danger of fishtailing on top of everything else.

I think it's wise to have it, just in case.

She did it on purpose.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by agentbad

She did it on purpose.

agreed, she has some sort of vendetta against motorcycles. This is particularly true when you factor in how long she waited to cut you off exactly.

[old3]

Everything you described paints you as a noob. You flashed your lights to a car waiting to enter/cross the road. That is the universal signal to allow them the right of way. You invited her to go. No wonder she was shocked.

Next, your braking. Everything in you description is screaming "no skills". Sorry my friend, you are exactly the guy who needs ABS, no question. You aren't riding the bike, you are merely operating it. There is a difference.

"not heavy enough for the highway", is this a joke? If I could drop 150 lbs. off my 300 I'd do it in a heartbeat! I ride a 265 lbs. sumoto at 75 MPH steady as a rock. Weight is bad, MmmmmKay. Very bad children. MmmmmKay?

[Han Solo 1]

Hmm, either she tried to murder me or I'm an idiot.

I guess it could be a bit of both.

[old3]

The former is possible but always, always trust the latter!

[Xtina]

Originally Posted by old3

Everything you described paints you as a noob. You flashed your lights to a car waiting to enter/cross the road. That is the universal signal to allow them the right of way. You invited her to go. No wonder she was shocked.

Next, your braking. Everything in you description is screaming "no skills". Sorry my friend, you are exactly the guy who needs ABS, no question. You aren't riding the bike, you are merely operating it. There is a difference.

"not heavy enough for the highway", is this a joke? If I could drop 150 lbs. off my 300 I'd do it in a heartbeat! I ride a 265 lbs. sumoto at 75 MPH steady as a rock. Weight is bad, MmmmmKay. Very bad children. MmmmmKay?

THis. Flashing lights is the universal sign that" I saw you and you can go".

[agentbad]

This is the thing that scares me the most while riding. Some people are just nuts and will pull **** like this maybe not fully realising or knowing full well that it can get you killed.

[old3]

Which is why those headlight modulators are a bad idea. We are lucky if people even see us on bikes already. Chances are, as they glance at us, distracted already, for a split second, all they will see is high/low headlight flash and assume it means

GO!!!

Yeah, you biffed that one Solo. Better to learn from it since you survived.

[old3]

Originally Posted by agentbad

This is the thing that scares me the most while riding. Some people are just nuts and will pull **** like this maybe not fully realising or knowing full well that it can get you killed.

OK,OK,OK, he knows now! Right Han?

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by old3

Which is why those headlight modulators are a bad idea. We are lucky if people even see us on bikes already. Chances are, as they glance at us, distracted already, for a split second, all they will see is high/low headlight flash and assume it means

GO!!!

Yeah, you biffed that one Solo. Better to learn from it since you survived.

Yep, good lesson. Next time I see someone about to turn in front of me, I'm going to speed up and give them the finger as I pass by.

Better to assume bad intentions than a good car driver.

[old3]

You might want to try yielding cause cars and trucks can be pretty hard things to hit on a bike.

Better to live and ride away than be dead right.

[ally99]

Get a 300. I loved my little 250, but the 300 is superior in every way. I love her even more!

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by old3

OK,OK,OK, he knows now! Right Han?

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by ally99

Get a 300. I loved my little 250, but the 300 is superior in every way. I love her even more!

Ah, yes, back to the subject at hand. Maybe we can stop the Han bashing?

I am leaning towards the 300 in a big way. In fact, I've already put the 250 up for sale and have gotten a few nibbles. We'll see what happens.

Originally Posted by agentbad

LOL!

[old3]

If you were in NJ and there wasn't ice and snow on my street you could try mine bud. Ask around in the regional forum for a short spin/bike swap maybe?

If you don't really need the power for higher speeds and 2 up, the super cheapo CBR250 might be a good fit for you too. I think you can find them for $3500 new leftover. Still the same 250/300 shortcomings in chassis and components but less weight, torquey motor with FI and good economy.

[ally99]

I just took my 300 to the track and fell in love with her even more! She's a much better track bike than the 250 in my opinion.

[agentbad]

If you are set on the 300 then go for it but for the money you can get a bigger bike with a better suspension.

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by old3

If you were in NJ and there wasn't ice and snow on my street you could try mine bud. Ask around in the regional forum for a short spin/bike swap maybe?

If you don't really need the power for higher speeds and 2 up, the super cheapo CBR250 might be a good fit for you too. I think you can find them for $3500 new leftover. Still the same 250/300 shortcomings in chassis and components but less weight, torquey motor with FI and good economy.

Yeah, I was looking at some of those too, but they have a much more simple look to them. . . I don't like the Y-shape headlight. Although I do like the new 2014 models. . .

I'm also tempted by the upcoming Yamaha R25. That looks freaking amazing.

But I figure that I will sell the bike, keep saving, and if something comes up that catches my eye, I'll just go for it.

[Han Solo 1]

Originally Posted by agentbad

If you are set on the 300 then go for it but for the money you get a bigger bike with a better suspension.

In your opinion, what would be an ideal sports bike, bigger with better suspension, for an idiot noob who's only ridden the Ninja 250 and doesn't know how to break properly or signal in traffic?

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Han Solo 1

for an idiot noob who's only ridden the Ninja 250 and doesn't know how to break properly or signal in traffic?

How does one "break properly"?