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Old April 8th, 2019, 10:32 AM   #1
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[webbikeworld.com] - Japanese Motorcycle Manufacturers Want Swappable Batteries

This Could Move Electric Bikes Forward According to a recent press release, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha are all working together to develop battery swapping technology. It’s a unique consortium that would help drive electric motorcycle proliferation if the companies can come up with solutions that are effective. The goal is to combine forces and ...

The post Japanese Motorcycle Manufacturers Want Swappable Batteries appeared first on Web Bike World.



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Old April 8th, 2019, 04:07 PM   #2
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Like swapping out your propane tank on your grill.

Great way to get rid of your old battery as it ages. Or get stuck with an old set of batteries that don't hold a charge.
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Old April 9th, 2019, 10:06 AM   #3
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The larger implication is that you could have Electric bike "fueling stations" where, should all electric bike batteries be standard, you could pull in and just swap for a fully charged batt just like a tank full of gas. This would make it possible for E-bikes to run just like ICE bikes just with less time between trips to the fueling station.
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Old April 9th, 2019, 10:13 AM   #4
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Interesting. I guess they'd have to make sure the battery they give you in the swap is still in good shape, not degraded by time or use. Then again, you're swapping it out again soon, so maybe it wouldn't matter.
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Old April 9th, 2019, 12:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
Interesting. I guess they'd have to make sure the battery they give you in the swap is still in good shape, not degraded by time or use. Then again, you're swapping it out again soon, so maybe it wouldn't matter.
That would be the true advantage of all bikes (or same for cars jusr bigger batts) having the same batteries. They would be properly charged at a station that would inspect and maintain them. The same a with Propane tanks for grills, they handle removing unsafe, damaged or depleted batteries and the consumer gets a quality product and dpes not have to wait for a recharge or worry about warranty/replacement of their batteries. There is a trade off in the fact that paying for the service will make the electric less cost saving vs a gas motor but it should be reasonable and you can still top it off at home
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Old April 9th, 2019, 01:51 PM   #6
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Agreed.

I hadn't thought about the parallel with propane tanks. That seems to be working fairly well. I don't hear people complain about getting a bad one, anyway.
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Old April 10th, 2019, 07:32 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ducati999 View Post
That would be the true advantage of all bikes (or same for cars jusr bigger batts) having the same batteries. They would be properly charged at a station that would inspect and maintain them. The same a with Propane tanks for grills, they handle removing unsafe, damaged or depleted batteries and the consumer gets a quality product and dpes not have to wait for a recharge or worry about warranty/replacement of their batteries. There is a trade off in the fact that paying for the service will make the electric less cost saving vs a gas motor but it should be reasonable and you can still top it off at home
I think the problem with doing it for cars would be the size and weight of the batteries.

With bike batteries they could keep the weight down to say 30 lbs per battery module and have multiple modules in a bike, small scooters one or two modules, something like a base model Zero three or four modules, Sport bikes six modules, and a bigger touring bike having eight or ten.
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Old April 10th, 2019, 08:31 AM   #8
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I think the problem with doing it for cars would be the size and weight of the batteries.

With bike batteries they could keep the weight down to say 30 lbs per battery module and have multiple modules in a bike, small scooters one or two modules, something like a base model Zero three or four modules, Sport bikes six modules, and a bigger touring bike having eight or ten.
@VaFish; I would have to agree with you. Should the standardize battery size then the only way to get more range (desirable for ADV bikes) they would have to add additional batts. Cars would be free to use much larger "standardized" batteries but this would require separate "fueling" areas for bikes and cars. I think this will be the way things will go but what do I know?
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Old April 10th, 2019, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati999 View Post
@VaFish; I would have to agree with you. Should the standardize battery size then the only way to get more range (desirable for ADV bikes) they would have to add additional batts. Cars would be free to use much larger "standardized" batteries but this would require separate "fueling" areas for bikes and cars. I think this will be the way things will go but what do I know?
Well one option would be to make a module of modules for cars, say a rack that holds 10 or 20 motorcycle batteries. Then have some sort of fork lift device to swap out batteries in the cars.
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Old April 12th, 2019, 07:26 PM   #10
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Well it doesn't look like Kawasaki agrees with me. Their latest patent shows one large battery module that is swapable.

https://www.webbikeworld.com/is-an-e...ja-400-coming/.
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Old April 13th, 2019, 07:11 AM   #11
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I think one problem is going to be cost, and I'm not sure that the cost curve bends down enough to ever make it feasible. The two main reasons this works well with propane tanks is that they are quite cheap, and nobody cares much about the technical differences from one propane tank to the next. Heck, Lowes will sell you a pre-filled 15lb propane tank for $15, or even only $12 if you bring your old one for trade.

Electric batteries are several orders of magnitude more expensive, and the technology is also advancing year over year, with owners of a 2019 battery having different performance expectations over 2017, 2015, 2013, etc. And while they do store energy, they aren't just the storage vessel like a fuel tank - their performance does vary, and does drop off over time, affecting their usefulness and desirability.

If the cost curve ever did get to the point where this was a workable solution, I'd imagine it would be on cheap, commodity transportation, more like those electric scooters, rather than something that people invested significant amounts of their own money to buy (motorcycles, cars, etc.).
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Old April 13th, 2019, 04:53 PM   #12
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Somebody needs to develop a liquid battery that is rechargeable. Pull up to the pump, suck out the dead battery, fill it with charged fluid, ride off. Then the dead fluid is recharged and pumped into a later vehicle.
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Old April 14th, 2019, 09:57 AM   #13
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Maybe they could find this liquid deep in the ground, and call it something like, "oil".

EDIT: Looks like there are folks pursuing exactly what you suggest...

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-liquid...y-storage.html

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...d-or-refilled/
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