March 10th, 2016, 09:53 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Michael
Location: Tehachapi, CA
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Power Commanders are now illegal
BS! As of Jan 1st NOBODY in CA can buy a Power Commander. CARB says so. Retail, dealer, distributor, doesn't matter. You cant get one.
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March 10th, 2016, 09:56 AM | #2 |
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So if you drive to Nevada and buy one, will they really find out you have it on?
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March 10th, 2016, 09:57 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Time to go Vegas. Because you know, what happens there stays there. Buying it that is, make sure to bring it home though.
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Current - 2015 30th Anniversary Ninja 636 ABS - 1969 Honda 305 Scrambler Previously - 2011 Ninja 1000, 2008 Ducati 848, 2011 Ninja 250 SE |
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March 10th, 2016, 10:03 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Michael
Location: Tehachapi, CA
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Yeah, but I dont get my awesome employee discount on them that way
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March 10th, 2016, 10:10 AM | #5 |
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Time to move I guess.
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Because Unregistered sucks at riding. |
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March 10th, 2016, 11:02 AM | #6 |
Ninjette Lurker
Name: Peter
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
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California and the EPA just know best I guess. because motorcycles kill polar bears.
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March 10th, 2016, 11:38 AM | #7 |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
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Got a resource for this info? Not finding much online. January as in already banned or January next year?
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March 10th, 2016, 12:03 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Michael
Location: Tehachapi, CA
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Ninja 300 Posts: 160
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This year, already banned.
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I ride because therapy is too expensive, and less fun. |
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March 10th, 2016, 12:07 PM | #9 |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
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I still can't find a source....you have one?
Is Dynojet not shipping them to California any more? They've technically been illegal in California for years, to my knowledge.
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March 10th, 2016, 12:28 PM | #10 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
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I'm no help with a source other than motorcycle magazines from past reading: all power Commander type equipment, aftermarket pipes, etc, etc are now banned or soon will be in CA. Stock or it's not legal for street.
Past experience has proven though; my memory is not to be relied on!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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March 10th, 2016, 01:26 PM | #11 | |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
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Quote:
Your problem now! Dynojet has been fined by CARB before....twice, I think. Maybe now it's actually being enforced instead of overlooked.
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March 10th, 2016, 03:11 PM | #12 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
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The EPA is a joke, they don't have the power to go after the real culprits for pollution since the large corporations responsible for the majority of pollution have teams of attorneys and lobbyists to protect themselves. So the EPA just changes their focus and goes after the people who don't have the funding to protect themselves from their bullshit legislation so they can justify their existence
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March 10th, 2016, 03:15 PM | #13 |
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Carburetors ftw.
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March 10th, 2016, 05:42 PM | #14 |
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Eh, I prefer fuel injection, but anything beats CV carbs.
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March 10th, 2016, 05:49 PM | #15 |
The Asian Caucasian
Name: Abu Mishary Mohd Fairus
Location: Malaysia
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bummer.
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March 10th, 2016, 06:35 PM | #16 |
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Hasn't it always been illegal to tamper with the fueling of a road going vehicle?
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March 10th, 2016, 06:42 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I'm pretty sure it has been since I've been alive. I know every jet kit or exhaust I've ever bought said for off road use only.
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March 10th, 2016, 07:14 PM | #18 |
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March 10th, 2016, 07:17 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I have a lot of experience with slide carbs, so I can adjust cv's with no problem, but they don't respond like efi does. There is always a delay as the slides move.
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March 10th, 2016, 10:56 PM | #20 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
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From the website in Germany:
"Operation of the Power Commander is not permitted on public roads and will invalidate the approval of your vehicle!" Question: "What about the factory warranty on my motorcycle? This is not valid any more because it is a relevant change in the engine electronics. So you should not go with a built-in Power Commander and a warranty repair to your dealer." |
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March 11th, 2016, 05:43 AM | #21 |
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^^ I just look at it this way. The guys at the shop/dealership are motorcycle guys too. I bet their bikes have fuel correction, whether carb'd or fuel injected. They expect those and the odds of you being reported are minimal.
But! Kiss that warranty goodbye if you ever have trouble with anything between the fuel tank and the exhaust pipe. That doesn't mean your warranty is completely void, just anything they can claim is affected by your power commander. |
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March 11th, 2016, 07:25 AM | #22 |
Slower than you.
Name: toEleven
Location: NoVA
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For example, this settlement circa 2007 posted on the CARB website
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/casesett/dynojet.htm I don't live in CA, so none of this effects me - just like their unique gun laws - but a couple seconds of googling gives the impression that none of this is new. The 2013 Revzilla buying guide for Power Commander products also has the same disclaimer mentioned earlier in the thread: illegal for road use in CA. So...not exactly the latest news.
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March 11th, 2016, 08:40 AM | #23 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
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There is a serious potential legal liability issue to consider if you live in CA (or anywhere for that matter) and do illegal mods to your bike: if you have an accident and your bike is examined; you may void your insurance. You could be paying for the rest of your life.
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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March 11th, 2016, 09:41 AM | #24 | |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
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Quote:
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March 11th, 2016, 11:35 AM | #25 | |
Ninjette Lurker
Name: Peter
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
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Quote:
That's proof that once we give the government some power that they will keep taking more and more freedoms and liberties from us... Similar to taxes.. always more taxes. |
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March 11th, 2016, 11:47 AM | #26 | |
ninjette.org dude
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Quote:
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/prod...1020-0398.aspx http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/d...or-harley-carb If I remember correctly, the difference is that the software won't allow tweaks to the fuel map in the rpm ranges and throttle openings that are used within the standard testing method, but anything outside those ranges is allowed. So for high performance use (high rpms, large throttle openings), it's all still open for tweaking.
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March 11th, 2016, 11:52 AM | #27 | |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
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Quote:
We still can't corroborate the OP's claim of not available though?
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March 17th, 2016, 04:40 PM | #28 | |
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All the fun toys come off bikes here when they're due an inspection, a few hours later they're back on |
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March 17th, 2016, 08:30 PM | #29 | |
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Quote:
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Because Unregistered sucks at riding. |
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March 17th, 2016, 09:26 PM | #30 | |
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Quote:
Hate to admit it, but the manufacturers are already doing this for all vehicles put on market. Cars, bikes, everything. It's how they pass tests. |
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April 3rd, 2016, 11:34 AM | #31 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rolf
Location: Sweden
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I'm torn about this. First of all I don't see the point with raising the fuelling on a 300 Ninja, especially since the "Kleen Air" system is already doing this, and quite a lot too, from what I read it is adding around 10% (beyond lambda 1.0). If I want a bike that makes more power and takes more fuel, I can buy one.
I also have deep respect for CARB and EPA. You would have thought that the EU authorities were on their toes after EPA had exposed the cycle beating (european) truck manufacturers some 10 years ago but no, it had to be US authorities that caught VW doing the same thing, and had been doing it for years. What I don't like is the hippocracy in this area. This thread suggests that it might be some kind of criminal offense to tamper with the engine control, even if you would do so to disable the Kleen Air and reduce fuel consumption. In EU it's even worse, formally you can't change anything on a vehicle at all. Manufacturers are of course delighted by this development, sending out all sorts of messages including that it will kill the kittens, lead to instant death and nuclear war if you change your rear view mirror. Which doesn't prevent them from selling power kits and upgrades to consumers themselves. Even Volvo is doing this now. So back to the criminal offense again, does anyone think that the responsible people will go to jail for installing cycle beating software on 11 million cars? And what about all other vehicles, I don't think I know any model that hadn't got the ECM software adjusted shortly after the launch, to correct some issues with take offs or starting. Meaning more fuel is added. And that includes the Ninja 300, incidently. (Mine is still on the original SW, runs fine.) Not to mention all the hundreds or thousands of test cars that a typical car manufacturer can have on the road, under some kind of deviation approval, with all kinds of modifications. You would be amazed if you knew. Just saying. This legal area and its enforcement is not balanced. |
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April 3rd, 2016, 12:14 PM | #32 | ||
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
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You are slightly misinformed about what these particular things do.....
The Kleen air system doesn't add fuel. It injects air into the exhaust to lean out the exhaust gases and make it EPA compliant. It does nothing to the mixture going into the engine. Quote:
If you have ABS, have you had that recall done? The software for your 300 was because of a deceleration issue causing a stall, not stalling on take off......not necessarily adding fuel. Have a source for what exactly the ECU fixed? I can't find one. Might be cutting ignition, might be cutting fuel... Quote:
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April 4th, 2016, 12:39 PM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
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@Somchai I guess I have to go with believer of propaganda-lies, at least on high level VW has confirmed the accusations. And it has had real consequences, such as VW stock value halved and much of management replaced. These are no lies, or?
@RacinNinja Well, he-he, let's not underestimate the readers of this thread, most of them understand that the air bypass valve does not inject fuel. The point is that the FI models enrichen the fuel mixture a lot beyond certain rpms and throttle positions. Good point about the lack of information regarding the ECU adjustment. You would have thought that such a critical recall would require full disclosure of what the problem is, what happens when the fault or disturbance occurs, and what has been done to prevent it. But we don't have this. I don't want to link to the other ninja forum, but apparently the issue is with the (deceleration) fuel cut-off. It was slightly too aggressive or enabled too aggressively (early) in the warm-up phase. The ECM update apparently disables the cut-off all together, which for sure prevents the engine from stalling. (And brings the ECM software 20 years back in time.) But this wasn't the point either, I'm just using this as an example to illustrate the problem. Haven't had the ABS job done either, will do it but my bike is not in the shop that often. I did check the routing issues with the brake lines though. |
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April 4th, 2016, 12:43 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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That was not polite.
It is like when someone will say "I'm not racist but" the next thing out of there mouth is guaranteed to be racist.
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April 4th, 2016, 12:45 PM | #36 | |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
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Quote:
Yes, it's a deceleration issue but was it spark cut or fuel cut? I'd really like to know just for the sake of knowing but we probably never will. In regards to the fuel cut off....my Yamaha came the same way from the factory. Riding the edge of the throttle in the turn was a bit butt puckering, as the fuel would come on and off and create a bit of a jerk, even perceptible in a straight line. Yes, it's old tech but it's also driveability tech. Not so much of a problem in a car that has 4 wheels planted in a corner.... I wonder if this an EU spec ECU thing to be rich? Most of the bikes here in the states are so lean from the factory it's a wonder they run at all.
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April 4th, 2016, 10:12 PM | #37 |
Freedom for Germany
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@RacinNinja from what I've seen and what I know they all run very lean in the lower rpm's.
The EX250-FI had or better to say "has" the same problem (at least not that much like the EX300), but that could be fixed very easy: disconnect the O2-Sensor and instead plug a resistor in to make the ecu 'think' the heater of it is working - problem solved. @rgx107, yes go ahead with the propaganda-lies and believe in them since they come from the good-cop, the "Empire-of-Chaos" itself. For sure did VW confirm the wrong-doing, what else should they say when the facts are clear? This all was very well known long before the news came up with it. All the manufacturers are doing the same thing, so just ask yourself why are they going against VW? One of the main reasons for this is to protect the non-competitive General Motors against a more and higher leveled Competitor (the main-owner of GM is the US-Gov. - you understand?). Just take this: - GM-Problem fined 900 mill. - 124 people dead - Toyota-Problem fined 1.2 bill. - 4 people dead - VW-Problem fined 90 bill. - 0 people dead You see the relation, for America a dead human is not really important but the money means it all (because money makes the world go round). See whom they go against now: Bosch and the other big names in Germany, take all those names and you'll understand that this is a war against the main industry and big knowledge of Germany to destroy it now. The VW-Problem was NEVER as worse as that So let's stop talking about this and believe me that there is much more what could be said about the Empire-of-Chaos... |
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April 4th, 2016, 11:25 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org dude
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Somchai - I'm not sure how to best phrase this, so please forgive my bluntness. Your content isn't helpful to the tone of this site. The anti-american bullshit you gravitate to is as tedious as it is unhinged. There are plenty of like-minded sites you can find to post on if that's what you want to focus on, but this is no longer one of them. There won't be another warning.
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April 5th, 2016, 02:24 AM | #39 |
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April 5th, 2016, 12:24 PM | #40 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rolf
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
And btw. no offense taken. |
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