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Old April 2nd, 2019, 06:12 PM   #1
sardilevi
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Carb issues?

Hey,

So I bought this 2010 Ninja 250R about 2 weeks ago and finally had time to fix it up..Backstory on the bike, it was standing for about 6 months, but the owner said it was started up at least once a week.

After getting it to my place, I could start it up with the battery that was in it for 6 months. It was idling great, was reacting to the choke, but whenever I gave it gas it shut off. My thoughts were a dirty carb, so I pulled it and cleaned it, a fair amount of junk came out. After putting it back in, the bike has been struggling to idle, no matter the position of the choke or the idle adjuster screw, had to give it a little gas otherwise it would've shut off. It also had a hard time getting up the revs.

Skip forward a couple of days, and 2 more carb cleaning sessions - just to be sure -, I drained the old gas, switched out the air filter, new spark plugs, new oil, and oil filter.

I could take it for a small ride of about 5 minutes until the engine fully warmed up, then kept giving me the same issues as before, no matter how much throttle, idle adjusting or choke I give it, it does nothing. Poorly idles under 1000RPM, and the throttle has to be pulled in slightly, otherwise it shuts off.

Made sure there are no vacuum leaks by the head and by the airbox connections. Some previous owner has definitely messed with the carb before, there were vac hose deletes, I routed it all back to stock.

I read a couple similar stories and watched videos, but they were not really the same issue I am having. I am pretty lost at this point to what the issue could be, if anyone with more knowledge could help me out on this one I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you

I am attaching a video and an image to what the issue is, and what the current carb routing is..Disregard the CA model.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 06:14 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sardilevi View Post
Hey,

So I bought this 2010 Ninja 250R about 2 weeks ago and finally had time to fix it up..Backstory on the bike, it was standing for about 6 months, but the owner said it was started up at least once a week.

After getting it to my place, I could start it up with the battery that was in it for 6 months. It was idling great, was reacting to the choke, but whenever I gave it gas it shut off. My thoughts were a dirty carb, so I pulled it and cleaned it, a fair amount of junk came out. After putting it back in, the bike has been struggling to idle, no matter the position of the choke or the idle adjuster screw, had to give it a little gas otherwise it would've shut off. It also had a hard time getting up the revs.

Skip forward a couple of days, and 2 more carb cleaning sessions - just to be sure -, I drained the old gas, switched out the air filter, new spark plugs, new oil, and oil filter.

I could take it for a small ride of about 5 minutes until the engine fully warmed up, then kept giving me the same issues as before, no matter how much throttle, idle adjusting or choke I give it, it does nothing. Poorly idles under 1000RPM, and the throttle has to be pulled in slightly, otherwise it shuts off.

Made sure there are no vacuum leaks by the head and by the airbox connections. Some previous owner has definitely messed with the carb before, there were vac hose deletes, I routed it all back to stock.

I read a couple similar stories and watched videos, but they were not really the same issue I am having. I am pretty lost at this point to what the issue could be, if anyone with more knowledge could help me out on this one I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you

I am attaching a video and an image to what the issue is, and what the current carb routing is..Disregard the CA model.

get in them carbs and verify all tuning components are present, stock, correct parts from Uncle Kawasaki, nothing bastardized, modded, deleted, wrecked, etc etc. No telling what a PO may have done, not done. That includes the decel valve. Start with pilot screws at 2 1/2 turns from lightly seated.

Verify the decel related vac hoses *between* the cabs are tight both on the carb bodies and top of the decel valve. The little booger hose under the decel valve as well.

Also check petcock function (screens present and clear? clogged?)

Also the tank cap vent system should be confirmed clear (flapper valves)

All that should keep you busy for a bit.

Todays ethanol fuels, coupled with bike inactivity, wreaks havoc. Add unknown PO tweaks...all bets are off.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:18 AM   #3
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Forgot one additional item to check....make sure the carb vent hose (the translucent clear/orange hose) is not constricted, kinked or plugged. This this must be fully free to "breathe".
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:34 AM   #4
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I will have more time to check out everything over the weekend. I did not see any obvious damage to the diaphragms but I will check them again. As for the carb breather hose. I did not see any translucent orange hose attached to the carb, only to the bottom of the airbox. The only thing I can think of is a vacuum leak somewhere. I noticed a small black splitter under ste steering column that is connecting the airbox, and the small vac lines that connect to the petcock and carb. That splitter has an open end at the top. The previous owner told me it was running without any issues before it was left standing, and nothing’s been changed to the point I bought it.

Any ideas what that open end could be?
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 09:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
Forgot one additional item to check....make sure the carb vent hose (the translucent clear/orange hose) is not constricted, kinked or plugged. This this must be fully free to "breathe".
Do you mean that hose that is in between the 2 carbs, and the hose is attached to the bottom of the tank with a plastic bracket?
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Old April 4th, 2019, 05:09 AM   #6
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on the '10 parts fiche is part # 92190-1064. Not shown connected to anything.

Though would appear black, no longer the translucent brown/clear used earlier.

In any event, you need to assure its clear to breathe.
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Old April 5th, 2019, 04:17 PM   #7
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Update..I replaced all vac hoses on the carb assembly and every hose that attaches to it. I put new manifolds on, so a vacuum leak is highly unlikely.

However, I noticed that the pin guides - above the main jet - are missing. I am not exactly sure what they are called, but I was wondering if you had a couple laying around. Now, I don't think the absence of those is causing the problems I am having since the bike was supposedly working without them in the past.

Right after starting the engine with a heavy hand on the throttle I am sometimes able to rev it up to around 2000, but after a couple seconds it drops back down below 1000 and nothing gets it back up after...

Any ideas?
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Old April 5th, 2019, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sardilevi View Post
However, I noticed that the pin guides - above the main jet - are missing. I am not exactly sure what they are called, but I was wondering if you had a couple laying around. Now, I don't think the absence of those is causing the problems I am having since the bike was supposedly working without them in the past.
I believe you are referring to the needle jets part # 16017-1417

You are wrong, they are critical to controlled fuel metering. Somebody fibbing you AFA running, even marginally, without them.

To replace them is mandatory, your next step in the repair path.

Not sure I've got them but I'll check after you confirm it IS the needle jets you need (save me a wild goose chase)
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Old April 5th, 2019, 06:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
I believe you are referring to the needle jets part # 16017-1417

You are wrong, they are critical to controlled fuel metering. Somebody fibbing you AFA running, even marginally, without them.

To replace them is mandatory, your next step in the repair path.

Not sure I've got them but I'll check after you confirm it IS the needle jets you need (save me a wild goose chase)
You are correct, those are the parts that are completely missing from the assembly, and I am fairly confident I have not come across them while taking the carbs apart.
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Old April 5th, 2019, 06:12 PM   #10
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provided there's nothing else missing or bastardized by "someone in the carbs before" ....THIS may very well be your main issue.

i'll get back on the needle jets.
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Old April 5th, 2019, 06:23 PM   #11
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It sure would be great if nothing else was wrong..However, how would that explain that the bike was running fine in the past even without these parts, and
that even I could take it for a small ride of about 5 minutes, then it started acting up even more so than before...
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Old April 5th, 2019, 06:48 PM   #12
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no way it was "running fine" prior without needle jets. Like I posted, somebody fibbing.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.... you need needle jets, period.
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Old April 5th, 2019, 08:31 PM   #13
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Well, if the main jet circuit were almost completely clogged, removing the needle jets might get enough fuel flowing to go for a short and unpleasant ride with a poorly running engine.
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Old April 6th, 2019, 05:41 AM   #14
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another possible "last ditch, get it to run at any cost" scenario could entail "throttling" the choke lever.

A rather dismal thought, no?
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Old April 6th, 2019, 10:23 AM   #15
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Okay, big news..I think. I believe I figured out where my vacuum leak is, might be a far fetched theory but this is what I could come up with.

Since the needle jets are missing, air can get in thru the fuel chambers. That would also mean that the fuel levels are also low in the fuel chambers, so the floats are also set in the wrong position. Since the fuel is low, air gets sucked in thru the fuel chamber vent hose. When I blocked off the vent hose this morning, I could somewhat control the revs.

Is this a viable thought process or am I just going crazy at this point?
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Old April 6th, 2019, 11:26 AM   #16
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Even if that theory is correct, there's no point in trying to run the engine until you get the carbs back to correct.
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Old April 6th, 2019, 12:28 PM   #17
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I was just testing the theory I came up with overnight. The low fuel level would explain why I do not have idle and why the choke is not working. I have to keep the throttle open just a bit so gas can be sucked up thru the main jet, but whenever I completely close it the bike just stalls.
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Old April 6th, 2019, 12:41 PM   #18
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Idle screw set properly? Try opening it little bit.
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Old April 6th, 2019, 12:45 PM   #19
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Idle screw set properly? Try opening it little bit.
Does not react to the position of the idle screw, nor the choke.
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Old April 6th, 2019, 03:36 PM   #20
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Everything you are trying is irrelevant until you get the needle jets back in. AND there may still be yet more unforeseen difficulties.

Yes I've got 2. I'll PM you.
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Old April 6th, 2019, 03:57 PM   #21
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Maybe they'll believe you.
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Old April 13th, 2019, 09:34 AM   #22
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update on the situation

after putting in the needle jets (thanks to ducatiman) the bike is running perfectly now..after extensive testing in a Friday afternoon rush hour the bike is not overheating, idles smoothly, gets up to speed.

I'm gonna have to look on the electrical wiring diagram to see why my turn indicators are constantly on instead of blinking, but other than that the bike is good.
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Old April 13th, 2019, 10:25 AM   #23
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Stock turn signals? Are any of them dead? The stock flasher relay requires a minimum amount of power going through it. If you have LED bulbs, for example, they might not draw enough power to make the flasher relay flash, and they'd just be on steady.

That's one possible cause. I suppose a new thread for the signals would probably be in order.
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Old April 13th, 2019, 10:29 AM   #24
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Stock turn signals? Are any of them dead? The stock flasher relay requires a minimum amount of power going through it. If you have LED bulbs, for example, they might not draw enough power to make the flasher relay flash, and they'd just be on steady.

That's one possible cause. I suppose a new thread for the signals would probably be in order.
You’re right. it was missing the front bulb housings altogether, so i changed them out to LEDs and its not drawing enough power. i guess case closed
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Old April 13th, 2019, 12:26 PM   #25
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There are a couple fixes, one is to get a new relay that works with LEDs, such as these. Alternatively, you can wire in a resistor in parallel with each LED bulb to draw more power. That can either be completely DIY, or use a package like these.
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