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Old April 29th, 2019, 09:45 PM   #1
Seirra117th
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pushing bike in 2nd clutch out seized engine?

Hi everyone thanks for reading this post. its my first here so probably gonna make some mistakes.

btw new bike owner of only 48 hours

so anyway i got this ninja 250r 08 dirt cheap but wont start.

known issues.......
broken clutch lever
broken kickstand - and kickstand safety switch - which is currently being bypassed
lights come on but no body home......(no sounds when keys turned to on)
battery 11.5v key off......tried jumpstarter pack.....still nothing when keys being turned to on
possible blown diodes......still workin on that

but i was trying to see if the engine was fully seized before trying to jump start it.

previous owner said 'it was running but now wont start' hmmm🤔 he bought it for fairings unseen and actually put it on the back of his truck and drove it to mine......so thankful for that

so my question is.......

putting bike in 1st release clutch and push.....rear wheel is really hard to move (im guessing high compreasion).......managed to get it into 2nd........was easier to push til i got to a point then could push past it with a little but more force then back to easy again.......(Q1 am i making a full rotaion here......Q2 is the harder push happening when im in the compression stage)........if i then kick it into 3rd it kinda just feels like it does in 2nd (Q3 is that because of higher gear ratio 3rds easier then 2nd).........

so doing all of that im hoping its telling me my engine isnt seize and its just a startup issue

Q4 hope i did ok here 🙄

thanks again too everyone

Last futzed with by Seirra117th; April 29th, 2019 at 09:56 PM. Reason: added word to title
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Old April 29th, 2019, 10:08 PM   #2
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or have i posted something completely wrong and stupid?
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:02 AM   #3
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Nope, not stupid or wrong, just inexperienced. Which is where we come in. OK, we need to separate your issues into multiple items with different troubleshooting procedures. You’ll need the following:

- official 2008-12 Ninja 250 workshop manual, search around for one
- smart battery charger
- multimeter


BATTERY
Even with a jumper pack, each time you crank, it will drain battery. So very first thing you do is put battery on charger until it’s fully charged to 13.8v. This should drop to 12.6v after resting for couple hours. There are no sounds of any sort when you turn key ON. Even headlights will not turn on until engine is running.


FUSES
Pull each and every fuse, including 30a main fuse on starter solenoid and measure resistance across their legs. Post your measurements here.


INTERLOCK SWITCHES
How did you bypass kickstand switch? Read up on how the interlock switches work here: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Unders...afety_switches

Replace broken clutch lever, it may not be activating clutch switch properly. Measure resistance of all interlock switches and post results here.

Also measure for voltage on power side of starter circuit as shown in guide. Do you have 12v power at every stage? Including 12v at activation terminal of starter solenoid?


ENGINE SEIZED?
You’ll want to limit amount and weight of parts being moved.

1. Put gearbox into neutral
2. remove both spark plugs
3. Locate stator/flywheel cover on left side of engine.



4. Use a 45mm washer with pliers on slot in middle of cover to unscrew centre cover

5. Use socket wrench on flywheel bolt visible in centre of stator cover

6. Gently spin engine anti-clockwise through 360-degrees rotation. If engine spins, it’s not seized.


PETCOCK TEST
1. Remove larger petcock hose from carburetor inlet (be careful not to lose little filter INSIDE hose. Note its orientation so you can reinstall.

2. Turn petcock to PRI position, does fuel flow?

3. Turn petcock to ON pisition, no fuel should flow.

4. Disconnect vacuum hose coming out of petcock from where it plugs into carbs. Apply vacuum to this hose. Does fuel flow from larger fuel hose?


After you’ve gotten all wiring fixed up and ensured engine’s not seized, you may still have gummed up and clogged carbs. That’s covered in another chapter....
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:11 AM   #4
Seirra117th
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thanks heaps for all your advise.

definitely in experienced with bikes.

i really appreciate all the help

ive definitely gotta separate elec and mechanical problems

ill post another update as soon as possible 😊
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:20 AM   #5
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so being able to push the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear with the clutch out with minimal resistance doesnt necessarily mean the engines NOT seized.....is that correct?
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:22 AM   #6
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oops i missed the second half of your post til then ill try the flywheel test too
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seirra117th View Post
so being able to push the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear with the clutch out with minimal resistance doesnt necessarily mean the engines NOT seized.....is that correct?
That could just be worn-out clutch or broken gearbox.

Only way to know for sure is to spin crankshaft and ensure that pistons go up and down.

Heck, even that’s not 100% foolproof. I encountered an engine with proper electronics and fuel system, that you can spin crankshaft smoothly, but it still wouldn’t start. Turns out it was missing pistons and con-rods!!!
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Old April 30th, 2019, 02:40 AM   #8
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awsome thanks heaps.....learning heaps here too.

ill sort out the elec and post results as soon as possible
and will definitely take your advice on the troubleshooting
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Old April 30th, 2019, 10:52 PM   #9
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here is a post of mine sorting out some electics with the starter and ignition diodes.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=333622
One of the starter diodes is faulty with the same resistance both directions.

i had also accidentally swapped then over after testing, pushed the start button and for a split second i thought i could hear the starter moter turn then starter relay started clicking.
2nd start up even less starter turn then clicking
3rd startup as expected no stater turn but still clicking
So that should now be pointing me back to the 11.5v battery issue
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Old May 1st, 2019, 06:17 AM   #10
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Many multimeters have a diode test setting that's much more informative than measuring resistance. Does your have this function?
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Old May 1st, 2019, 07:18 AM   #11
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yeah it does have a diode test

its a fluke dmm 140 forget the numbers
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 04:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
ENGINE SEIZED?
You’ll want to limit amount and weight of parts being moved.

1. Put gearbox into neutral
2. remove both spark plugs
3. Locate stator/flywheel cover on left side of engine.



4. Use a 45mm washer with pliers on slot in middle of cover to unscrew centre cover

5. Use socket wrench on flywheel bolt visible in centre of stator cover

6. Gently spin engine anti-clockwise through 360-degrees rotation. If engine spins, it’s not seized.


do i need to drain oil or anything to take off the alternator cover or just the spark plugs tondo this test
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 05:17 PM   #13
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and outta curiosity.......am ibtakin the spark plugs put so they dont spark?

total noob here
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 08:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seirra117th View Post
and outta curiosity.......am ibtakin the spark plugs put so they dont spark?

total noob here
Don't need to drain oil. When you take that cover off, you'll see a bolt, can't miss it. Put a socket on it and turn it counter-clockwise, that will turn the engine. If it doesn't turn, your engine is seized, if it does turn, your engine is not seized.

Removing the spark plugs eliminates all the compression, allowing you to easily turn the engine.
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 09:58 PM   #15
Seirra117th
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Smile

awsome thanks for the info....

whats the easiest to get the right spark plug out?

from the left or from the right after taking hoses off?

again thanks everyone for all da help......definitely making progress with this bike atm
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 10:39 PM   #16
Seirra117th
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and im guessing i dont need too disconnect the battery to do this?
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 10:43 PM   #17
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lol my spark plug lead tapped up......



btw if you all missed it this bike was ridiculously cheap
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Old May 3rd, 2019, 10:55 PM   #18
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by the looks of it just remove the right ignition coil to get to the right spark plug
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Old May 4th, 2019, 01:08 AM   #19
Seirra117th
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ok so we're got the ignition plugs out next spark plugs.......was a tight fit but done
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Old May 4th, 2019, 03:46 AM   #20
Seirra117th
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this is the condition of the first spark plug





any thoughts?

if only i could change the title too.......Getting this 250r started and roadworthy
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Old May 4th, 2019, 07:14 AM   #21
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Looks pretty dirty to me, but others will know better than I.
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Old May 4th, 2019, 07:19 AM   #22
Seirra117th
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well lets hope this is normal......



and i was able to turn the flywheel full 360......kinda moved itself around at one point....if thats normal.....was only a small move.....moved with a little effort

or is it supposed to be effortless

and yep them spark plugs are dam dirty
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Old May 4th, 2019, 08:41 AM   #23
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Honestly can't say for sure if oil there is bad or not. Now that I think about it, I had drained the oil when I was in there. On the plus side, your engine isn't seized!

It's not exactly effortless to turn it, but it is very easy.
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Old May 4th, 2019, 09:28 AM   #24
Seirra117th
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well that sounds awesome yay

if anyone can confirm what the oil there is for would be amazing

feeling so much better bout this bike knowing the engines not seized

might even try to fire it up tomorrow

just to see if it runs at all

thanks heaps everyone
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Old May 4th, 2019, 06:51 PM   #25
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dam its so close to starting up........starters going and i can hear faint little chug a chug sa s i push the starter

id say carby dirty.......

was thinking of some quick start spray in the air........or would the state of the spark plugs be stoppin it?
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Old May 4th, 2019, 09:22 PM   #26
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so from what ive read here.....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...r.html%3famp=1

it looks like on mine theres too much oil.....it reads pretty high on the oil gauge but is also abit thick and dirty....though the oil light is also on when the keys turned to on(never had a bike and havent read up this yet)

got some new spark plugs....gonna check their gap.....install em and then see how we go......

also gonna replace oil asap
and ill have to replace the gasket on the alternator as some oil started leaking when i tried to start it.........doesnt leak when sitting though.........so if im lucky its only that one gasket

any thoughts?

hope this post helps others too and thanks for everyones input

ive gone from absolutely nothing pushing start to it actually kicking over for second
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Old May 4th, 2019, 10:31 PM   #27
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oh btw when trying to start it

the headlight came on.......im hoping thats a really good thing(as in they only come on once the bikes running?)

i noticed it on after the bike putted for a sec and died but the headlight was still on till i hit the kill switch
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Old May 5th, 2019, 03:08 AM   #28
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Here's what happening after fixing the diode's and starting off a jump starter pack........

https://youtu.be/5aG6rhTwPDQ

This was before i installed new spark plugs.....(havent had time to start it again yet)

things too still do......
- fix oil leak from possibly the alternator gasket
- change oil
- service air filter
- replace clutch lever
- replace side stand and possibly saftey switch
- replace battery
- replace and wire indicators for L.E.D's

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Old May 5th, 2019, 05:14 AM   #29
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Oil change never hurts. I'm pretty sure the headlight comes on with a failed start attempt, but I'm not at home to double check that.
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Old May 9th, 2019, 02:16 AM   #30
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All I can tell you is, when I buy a used bike that has been sitting I check for compression and spark. Also look inside the gas tank for rust. Then I pay the guy and load the bike.

I use those $5 dollar spark testers from Harbor freight. You do have to make up an adapter because overhead cam engine. The plugs are at the end of a long plug cap.

I get it home. I do not try to start it before a complete carb disassembly, ultrasonic bath and complete rebuild.

Then I start it up and run for a few minutes. Shut it down and drain the oil and refill.

Now the bike is ready for riding.

Spraying $hit into the carbs is the first sure step to disaster. No carb cleaner no starter fluid as both will wreck your diaphragms.

If you are afraid of working on carbs you either need to give up now and send them to ducatiman
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Old May 10th, 2019, 01:21 AM   #31
Seirra117th
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awesome thanks for the advice.... Im definitely happy to do the work......just gotta keep learnin
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