Cornering

[randomwalk101]

Most of crashes (rider's fault) occurs in corner. Mostly hitting them too fast. So when you enter a corner a little too fast, what do you do?

Lean more?
Rear brake?
Engine brake?
Soft front brake?
Abandon bike and bail?
Pray?

[areifel]

Don't quote me. But, I believe you lean more and accelerate a little. You'd be surprised how far the bike will lean. Make sure to look through the turn and not at the ground.

[kkim]

I typically trust the bike and hope it's capabilities are greater than mine. Complete the turn as planned. By the time you realize you're in trouble, you usually are.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Most of crashes (rider's fault) occurs in corner. Mostly hitting them too fast. So when you enter a corner a little too fast, what do you do?

Lean more?
Rear brake?
Engine brake?
Soft front brake?
Abandon bike and bail?
Pray?

I think it's more of people THINK they entered the corner too fast and so they panic. If you do enter a corner a little too fast, just ride the corner like you're supposed to and you're probably gonna be fine. Steady in, roll on your throttle from your apex, etc. If you enter the corner a lot too fast, do the same thing but pray too!

[SVBS]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

....
If you enter the corner a lot too fast, do the same thing but pray too!

yup yup, praying definitely help you lean smoother

[Nemesis]

Sometimes it's not really your fault. LOL

Vid here

Around 2:48 mark is when it happens.


For me, it's mostly I'm not entering the turn/corner fast enough.

If you're mind is telling you you're entering the turn/corner too fast just stand the bike up (assuming you're in mid-turn) and get on the brakes. But what most people don't understand is they think the speed you're entering the corner/turn is the speed you're be cornering which is not true. In other words, your "Oh shiet!" moment will most likely turn into a "Oh?" moment.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by kkim

I typically trust the bike and hope it's capabilities are greater than mine. Complete the turn as planned. By the time you realize you're in trouble, you usually are.

+1

[Havok]

I push the bars a bit more, give a tad bit of throttle to get stable and trust the bike will hold.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

I think it's more of people THINK they entered the corner too fast and so they panic. If you do enter a corner a little too fast, just ride the corner like you're supposed to and you're probably gonna be fine. Steady in, roll on your throttle from your apex, etc. If you enter the corner a lot too fast, do the same thing but pray too!

+1

If you think you're going in too hot, the only thing you can really do is either lean more or bail (or do all kinds of weird crap with the brakes). I'm willing to bet most noobs will bail first...or do things with the brakes.

All in all, my emergency plan consists of falling back to maintenance throttle and leaning my brains out. I'd rather low side than touch the brakes and high side. My days of flying for the hell of it are well behind me.

[8gauge]

I just clench my buttcheeks and hope i didnt ruin a pair of good underwear.

[vince_2149]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

I think it's more of people THINK they entered the corner too fast and so they panic. If you do enter a corner a little too fast, just ride the corner like you're supposed to and you're probably gonna be fine. Steady in, roll on your throttle from your apex, etc. If you enter the corner a lot too fast, do the same thing but pray too!

Pretty much. If you panic you end up like this (note the bar angle vs. the forks. I hit a rock/small boulder and did a front flip w/ the bike. That's where the dirt/dents came from on the upper parts of the bike.)


The turn (I was going the opposite way the bike was facing.)

I could have made the turn at my speed too, more than likely. Just got overconfident and out rode my ability. Lesson learned and 10k clean miles since.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Most of crashes (rider's fault) occurs in corner. Mostly hitting them too fast. So when you enter a corner a little too fast, what do you do?

Lean more?
Rear brake?
Engine brake?
Soft front brake?
Abandon bike and bail?
Pray?

You forgot the most important option: ROLL ON THE GAS!

Originally Posted by rockNroll

I think it's more of people THINK they entered the corner too fast and so they panic. If you do enter a corner a little too fast, just ride the corner like you're supposed to and you're probably gonna be fine. Steady in, roll on your throttle from your apex, etc. If you enter the corner a lot too fast, do the same thing but pray too!

I totally agree that most riders THINK they have entered the corner too fast so they panic and make several mistakes. Unfortunately, most of the options listed above, lean more, rear brake, engine brake, soft front brake, abandon bike and bail and pray are only going to make the situation WORSE and not better.

I agree with what rockNroll says about continuing to ride through the corner like you're supposed to and rolling on the throttle, though I would advocate doing so asap once the bike is turned and not necessarily waiting until the apex to do so.

So, how will rolling on the gas help ensure that you make it through the corner safely?

How might the above suggestions (lean more, rear brake, engine brake, soft front brake, abandon bike and bail.....) make the situation worse?

Misti

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Misti

So, how will rolling on the gas help ensure that you make it through the corner safely?
How might the above suggestions (lean more, rear brake, engine brake, soft front brake, abandon bike and bail.....) make the situation worse?

Misti

I believe rolling on the gas makes the bike more stable by taking the slack out of the drive line and providing traction and pulls the bike through the turn. Too much front brake and rear brake will cause the bike to stand up and also can cause a lock up, resulting in less control. Engine braking in too low of a gear can cause the bike to dive and lose traction at the rear wheel. Engine braking in the right gear should be done before the lean into the turn.

Light-moderate braking on the rear brake will cause the bike to squat slightly, it lowers the center of gravity thus helping with traction but still allows the bike to power through the turn. The trick is knowing how much rear brake too apply. The rear brake can control or modulate your speed much better than the front brake and abrupt (sudden) throttle input.

All that put together is; Practice (practice is a confidence builder) and Pray before you get on the bike, prior to hitting a turn, set yourself and the bike up (engine braking, proper line and approach, looking through the turn) if you can prior to entering a turn, if you find yourself entering a curve too fast, stay calm and focus, continue to ride through the corner like you're supposed to, rolling on the throttle, doing so asap once the bike is turned and not waiting until the apex to do so, lean the bike a little more while applying some moderate rear brake and staying steady on the throttle. Stay on the bike. If you do lose it or you do lowside, having on good or proper gear, you will be able to in most cases walk away with little or no injury. Bailing or abandoning unnecessarily can cause injuries to you, not to mention damage to the bike, your wallet and ego. Most importantly is ride to your skill level and be safe.

whew..

[demp]

I've been there before.., that feeling like you're entering a turn too fast. Just lean! (and apply gas to keep her stable!)

You'll be amazed at what the ninja will do, no panicking. Moderate braking works just fine as long as you don't freak out and grab a handful of brake (or rear for that matter, in a turn I NEVER use the rear brake.. I won't risk locking it up like that).

[ally99]

Never brake in a corner! The advice given so far is great, and there are tons of other cornering threads with a wealth of information if you want to read more. Your bike will lean a LOT further than you will be comfortable leaning it the first few times. Trust the bike.

[JMcDonald]

Ok, look at the last picture of Vince's post. See those oil spots in the right lane? Those scare the hell out of me. Am I over-reacting, or are do those typically have significantly-reduced traction?

[JeffM]

Someone enlighten me: I was under the impression that a whiff of rear brake will settle the bike mid turn. Not saying you let off the throttle or not continue the turn but just add at touch of brake to tighten the turn.

[highpsiguy]

When I hit a corner too fast, I usually am thinking two things. GAS and LOOK THRU!

Sometime I am thinking a third thing....am I wearing clean underwear?...or am I STILL wearing clean underwear???!!! I think if I ever lowside my buttcheeks will tear of vinyl seat cover as bike slides across road.

[Samer]

I can't agree with those who say accelerate if you get into a corner too fast. That makes no sense to me. If a person is entering a corner too fast, then accelerating obviously makes the problem worse. On the other hand, abruptly getting off of the throttle is a bad idea because that upsets the balance of the bike. So I believe committing to the turn and leaning over more while maintaining some throttle would probably be the way to go. Since you are sitting down and reading this then you have the ability to make sure you don't head into a turn too fast so that you can accelerate through the turn. Doing the braking prior to the turn is the way to go. I think we can all agree about that.

[austexjg]

Really depends on body position - riding like every corner is on the track puts your body in more of a position to have better control of the outcome, regardless of the actions that are taken (i.e. more throttle, minor use of rear, even slowing during a turn if needed).

The one time I high-sided, I would have been able to make a better choice rather than just quickly letting go of the throttle and using both brakes - which caused me to drift wide and hit gravel and then the fun started. I know for a fact, had I been in a more "racing state of mind" instead of just out enjoying the twisties, my reaction to a sudden red light from the bike in front would have been different because my body position would have been more aggressive; which lends itself to a variety of possible corrections.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Samer

I can't agree with those who say accelerate if you get into a corner too fast. That makes no sense to me.

People aren't saying accelerate. People are saying get on the gas. The problem with rolling off the gas or even adding more brake while in the turn is it causes the bike to do exactly what you don't want it to do. Run wide, and or lessen the available traction. Getting back on the gas better balances the the bike from the front to rear, and helps keep both ends of the bike well within their traction limits.

Originally Posted by Samer

Doing the braking prior to the turn is the way to go. I think we can all agree about that.

If the bike is slowed down to the appropriate entry speed well before the turn, then no problem. It's a reasonable idea to keep a safety margin well below the bike's and rider's limits on the street.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Alex

People aren't saying accelerate. People are saying get on the gas. The problem with rolling off the gas or even adding more brake while in the turn is it causes the bike to do exactly what you don't want it to do. Run wide, and or lessen the available traction. Getting back on the gas better balances the the bike from the front to rear, and helps keep both ends of the bike well within their traction limits.




If the bike is slowed down to the appropriate entry speed well before the turn, then no problem. It's a reasonable idea to keep a safety margin well below the bike's and rider's limits on the street.

+1 on this, well stated. That is exactly what we are saying. It doesn't take much gas to stabilize the bike and get the weight off the front. Instead of coasting through a turn when you enter it too fast and certainly instead of getting on the brakes we are saying give a slight roll on with the throttle. Rolling on the gas will transfer the weight of the bike off the front and onto the back. This allows the suspension to work properly and allows the bike to maintain a predictable line.

Now, there are the occasional times when you might need to emergency brake in the middle of a corner to avoid hitting something unexpected. This is different from getting on the brakes in order to simply slow down (due to perceived too high entry speed). When these situations arise what is the safest method of doing so? How can you safely apply the brakes mid turn in an emergency situation?

Misti

[vince_2149]

Originally Posted by Samer

I can't agree with those who say accelerate if you get into a corner too fast. That makes no sense to me. If a person is entering a corner too fast, then accelerating obviously makes the problem worse. On the other hand, abruptly getting off of the throttle is a bad idea because that upsets the balance of the bike. So I believe committing to the turn and leaning over more while maintaining some throttle would probably be the way to go. Since you are sitting down and reading this then you have the ability to make sure you don't head into a turn too fast so that you can accelerate through the turn. Doing the braking prior to the turn is the way to go. I think we can all agree about that.

I didn't see anyone else post this site yet, so I'll do it. Here's an answer to you question and is a good read on this topic
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Entering_a_turn_too_fast

Regarding the accelerating:
"Accelerate slightly through the turn. This is to balance the bike, not to speed up. Don’t grab a handful of throttle; just use slightly more than constant throttle. And don't do the opposite: Letting off the throttle will upset the bike’s suspension nearly as much as using the brakes. It overloads the front suspension and means more risk of a lowside."

Notice the "slightly" part. Like stated, it's to balance the bike, not to speed up and making the problem worse.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by austexjg

Really depends on body position - riding like every corner is on the track puts your body in more of a position to have better control of the outcome, regardless of the actions that are taken (i.e. more throttle, minor use of rear, even slowing during a turn if needed).

The one time I high-sided, I would have been able to make a better choice rather than just quickly letting go of the throttle and using both brakes - which caused me to drift wide and hit gravel and then the fun started. I know for a fact, had I been in a more "racing state of mind" instead of just out enjoying the twisties, my reaction to a sudden red light from the bike in front would have been different because my body position would have been more aggressive; which lends itself to a variety of possible corrections.

+1
If you havent rode the bike on the track. DO IT. Go, enjoy, learn. Riding over your own ability is easy if you have never done a trackday. riding over the bikes ability is hard with just "street skills".

[Blackwidow]

I slow down while entering the corner, as soon as im in my turn i lean and roll the throttle as if i'm accelerating from a red light (slowly and smoothly)

[Cab305]

Never ever break! Lean lean lean, a low side is ALWAYS better than a high side.

[Samer]

Originally Posted by Cab305

Never ever break!

Don't break is probably good advice for more than motorcycling

I think you meant "brake" but it is a common mistake

To lean and commit and look where you want to go and not to panic is the key I think.

[JMcDonald]

I've been surprised how hard I can be turning and then still brake or just roll off the throttle without any slippage. Granted, this is largely me trying to keep away from the absolute limits since this is all on the street, but it is definitely nothing like the "touch the brakes and die!" :P .

[Cab305]

"I think you meant "brake" but it is a common mistake "
How embarrassing, I is usually a good speller. Cause I is an ex college student.

"I've been surprised how hard I can be turning and then still brake or just roll off the throttle"
You are practicing, bad technique SR#1(Keith said so). For whatever reason you felt you needed to "brake" or roll off, there was a better solution. You will eventually find the point where you can't brake or just roll off anymore.

I personally still have trouble not doing it. SR#1 is hard to overcome.

[indr]

put your foot down like they do on motards

[JMcDonald]

Oh I know it's bad, but the solution to every possible mid-turn situation cannot always be "more throttle and lean harder." For example, in one of my cases I looked up to see I was headed strait for a large piece of cardboard. I did not want to risk going around it, because in approaching the edge of the road I could have hit some gravel or even dust. So, between the options of hitting the piece of cardboard at nearly full-lean and KNOWING I will crash, or rolling off the throttle to go over it as vertically as possible, I chose the latter (and survived). I am not saying this is correct or anything, but I think as long as you are being at least reasonably sane it is not a guaranteed crash to do anything but get on the gas and lean harder. But, like I said, this could very well be because I try to stay away from my absolute traction limits since this is all street riding, which gives me more fudge room.

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by indrish

put your foot down like they do on motards

That always seems crazy to me. My uncle tore all the ligaments in his knee (like, all the 'CLs) when he put his foot down to keep from falling sideways when doing a wheely on a dirtbike at maybe 15MPH. Like, most all of the tendons are some kind of rope now. I can't understand the logic in trying to brace a 300lb machine at 50mph with your human leg, lol.

[backinthesaddleagain]

I have saved 2 low sides by putting a foot down. Once was I was crossed up like a flat tracker when my rear tire hit wet pine needles, the other was a rear wheel slipping on a cold morning on the center painted line. I didn't so much slam it down as just kind of dab, and it was my last resort. I think dirt bike riding helps alot in these situations where you are often putting your inside foot down in the turns. J - many people hurt their knees dirtbiking like your uncle did when they catch their foot in a rut and the knee gets twisted. MX boots often have smooth soles so that the riders foot doesn't get too much traction in the dirt and put stress on the knee. I have friends who are expert level MX racers who have blown out their ACL in such ruts. Terrible injury, my daughter has had a torn ACL over a year now from a HS sport injury. She will probably get it fixed at the end of this school year. She continued to play sports with the injury and lots of leg lifting - bit I digress, LOL.

[spooph]

Originally Posted by highpsiguy

When I hit a corner too fast, I usually am thinking two things. GAS and LOOK THRU!

Lol, when I do go into a corner too fast I'm thinking OH CRAP OH CRAP OH CRAP OH CRAP..... Somehow my right wrist twists a bit more and I make it out OK...

[backinthesaddleagain]

^^^ oh yeah me too, well the oh crap part

[indr]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

That always seems crazy to me. My uncle tore all the ligaments in his knee (like, all the 'CLs) when he put his foot down to keep from falling sideways when doing a wheely on a dirtbike at maybe 15MPH. Like, most all of the tendons are some kind of rope now. I can't understand the logic in trying to brace a 300lb machine at 50mph with your human leg, lol.

the first time I did put my foot down to corner faster was just yesterday and almost purely out of reflex. i took the bike out around the block for a very small ride. the tires were cold and the temp was around 3degC. i wanted to take a right turn at an residential intersection. i was coming in too fast and i was already in a lean for the turn and knew front brake would wipe me out. same with lean too much because tyres were no where close to approaching leanable temps. there was a car stopped on the other lane of the street i wanted to turn onto. but it somehow worked out. so, putting your inside foot down and dragging it does make for a tighter corner w/o as much lean.

instinct told me that my foot would dislocate and rip out seeing how i was wearing sneakers w/o ankle support. i need to get some riding boots and try this more often though.

[backinthesaddleagain]

One reason I avoided the Hypermotard - I would be riding the bumpy backroads of Rhode Island with one foot down in every corner. When I first started riding the road I made a conscious effort to keep my feet on the pegs at all times (hard to do after riding dirtbikes since age 10 and now being in my forties), however I have only put foot out twice, in the situations above.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Most of crashes (rider's fault) occurs in corner. Mostly hitting them too fast. So when you enter a corner a little too fast, what do you do?

Lean more?
Rear brake?
Engine brake?
Soft front brake?
Abandon bike and bail?
Pray?

Think all the above has worked, at one time or another

[Listerineteeth]

I remember when I was just starting out I had a 'enter corner too fast - going to hit a house' moment. Being so brand new to riding at the time I did the stupidest thing in the world and grabbed a handful of front brake. I wasn't too leaned over (I was just starting the turn) but enough to make me think 'STUPID STUPID STUPID'. Amazingly, no trouble, no locking up, the bike just slowed down and I made the turn.

Afterwards, I went through it a thousand times, and didn't ride for a week (knowing I could do something so stupid). Obviously it's the only time I've grabbed the front brake during a turn, (and now I know much better, thanks ninjette.org!) but am still amazed that the bike just slowed down, no fuss, no problem. It still puzzles the hell out of me. (in a 'oh look, I didn't crash. Now lets NEVER do that again!).

All the advice here is great, but just wanted to share my cornering 'moment' (and if anyone can explain why I didn't launch into the air or low/highside, it would be appreciated)

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Cab305

Never ever break! Lean lean lean, a low side is ALWAYS better than a high side.

It is ideal to not have to brake in the middle of a turn though sometimes it is unavoidable and there is a better way to do it than what most people do. However I have a question about your comment, you say never ever brake because a lowside is always better than a highside. How does a highside occur? Do you think that if you just get on the brakes mid corner you are going to highside the bike? Can you clarify please? Thanks!

Misti