January 5th, 2015, 03:22 PM | #121 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: harry
Location: Central Florida
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250, 2004 Buell XB12s, Honda 110 Elite Posts: 332
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Ya'll know what Forrest Gump's Mama used to say. I'm 61 and have enough sense to learn new things. I did the research, and oil isn't what it used to be.
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"They don't pay me enough to ride this thing!" Kenny Roberts after winning the Indy Mile on the TZ750 powered Grand National bike. |
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January 5th, 2015, 04:37 PM | #122 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
Everything I've told you I've learned over years of experience and research - and is accurate and true. I've given safe and economical alternatives, but you are free to use whatever oil you want. Some people may choose to believe what I've said, or at least research it for themselves, and it might save them expensive repairs down the line. Move on! |
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January 5th, 2015, 08:59 PM | #123 | |||
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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I think http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html is a much easier to read version of that article (just the website layout)...
And I think you're taking away the wrong conclusions from it. That was sort of testing "auto" oil vs. fancy expensive "motorcycle" oil. The "motorcycle" oil people could provide no data to back up their claims that their oil was better. The "auto" oil companies weren't surprised by the test results, because any great advancement in oil technology is going to end up in everything eventually. Those tests showed that regardless of what picture is on the bottle and what number is on the price tag, good oil is good and bad oil is bad. As fast1075 said, the "motorcycle" oil might simply have been relabelled "auto" oil even. Not exactly the same, but the EX500 manual calls for SG rated oil, or SH/SJ/SL/SM plus JASO MA (the SH standard is from '93). The newer API standards focused more on efficiency and emissions, so the JASO standards were created to ensure that bike oil was still sufficient. JASO MA is specifically designed around 4-stroke, wet-clutch setups. The JASO F_ standards are for 2-stroke engines. http://www.oilspecifications.org/jaso.php The time that article was written is basically when oil changed so that standard auto oils started doing things we didn't want in bike engines. There's a difference between "motorcycle" oil that has a picture of a bike on the bottle, and motorcycle oil that's got JASO certification to work specifically on a 4-stroke, wet-clutch machine. One is marketing BS, the other is engineered to a specific standard because the previous standard no longer accurately represented what bike engines needed. Quote:
The first three points make it clear how a bike engine is different from a car, and help give you insight on what oil to use, even just based on viscosity. In those tests, Castrol GTX had lost 8.2% of its viscosity after 3600 miles in an Accord. The same oil had lost 32% of its viscosity (i.e. it was down to 27 weight from 40) after 1500 miles in a bike. The transmission gears cause the oil to shear and break down much faster. Even the best oil they tested, Mobil1, had lost 17% of its viscosity (down to 33 weight) after 1500 miles. http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html is another page with quite a bit of research. The author seems quite knowledgeable about these things. Quote:
Quote:
As for viscosity, the EX500 manual simply recommends 10W-40, but states that you may need to use other viscosities depending on the climate. At least in my case 5W-40 is not "out of spec", and above ~80°F is actually the same 40-weight recommended in the manual. Since I do ride in colder weather, I like the 5W for cold startups. The Rotella T6 5W-40 meets all the requirements in my manual, including JASO MA. It's a synthetic plus it's cheap. It also has the benefits of being a commercial ("diesel") oil. These oils tend to put more emphasis on protection and less on efficiency and emissions. To me, that sounds quite fitting for my '80s-technology EX500 engine without a catalytic converter or anything like that. See the link above for more info on commercial oils. Like my sig says, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to. These are just the facts and my line of reasoning as to why I do what I do.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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January 6th, 2015, 12:26 PM | #124 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Rebel 250s, Ninja 250s VN750s (currently nine total) Posts: 465
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^ Well said.
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Profanity is the weapon of the witless. |
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January 6th, 2015, 12:35 PM | #125 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 25
MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
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Nice to see a familiar face #InvisiBill, funny how some topics refuse to die LOL
BTW I approve of your signature, thank you.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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January 6th, 2015, 01:52 PM | #126 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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January 7th, 2015, 03:42 PM | #127 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Rebel 250s, Ninja 250s VN750s (currently nine total) Posts: 465
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Sure, but he said it more clearly and tactfully than you did. We aren't that far apart on where we stand on this issue. I do use Rotella in my bikes, because that's what goes in my diesel tractor and I buy it in bulk. But if Rotella wasn't readily available, I'd have no qualms about using an automotive oil in 15W-40 or 15W-50, depending on the temperature range the bike would be operating in. Some may refer to these oils as diesel specific, even though the oil manufacturer indicates they can be used in light trucks and cars with gasoline engines. I refer to all non-m0torcycle specific oils as automotive oils.
BTW, you touched on this earlier but didn't go into detail. The base stock in a multi-grade oil is always the lower number. For example, a 10W-30 uses a 10 weight base which has viscosity modifiers added so it will behave like a 30 weight oil at higher temperatures.
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Profanity is the weapon of the witless. |
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January 8th, 2015, 08:25 AM | #128 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
Your first comment is way wrong. As for the second comment - not for synthetic oils. Do more research. My apologies for not being tactful in my replies. I've never insulted you, just tried to correct incorrect information. It's just the facts - and no fluff - sorry. |
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January 8th, 2015, 03:05 PM | #129 |
Participant
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Aug '15
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Religion & politics...
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January 8th, 2015, 03:16 PM | #130 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 25
MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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January 8th, 2015, 04:27 PM | #131 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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comparing how oil is worn by car engine to a bike engine is like comparing the quarter mile running times of a heavy lift champion vs a small dog.
you simply don't do it because they are completely different.
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