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Old October 7th, 2023, 01:34 PM   #1
BabyHands
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Idle issues/running Help

Strange issue I’m having maybe someone can shed some light. 2008 ninja 250r having issues where when started it’ll run briefly with the choke on and then die. Any kinda throttle it dies out. Chasing issues where it wouldn’t stay running found a torn diaphragm so I replaced it and cleaned the entirety of the carbs really well. This particular carb has an e-clip and two washers per needle. I’m not sure if they’re supposed to under or over the clip can’t find a definitive answer. It runs really choppy if it stays on for the 1 minute cold start before it dies. Any help greatly appreciated thanks.

Replaced plugs today seems to only run when washers are underneath needle diagram shows they go above any ideas? Going to end up taking carbs out again for yet another clean but I can’t figure this out
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Old October 7th, 2023, 02:28 PM   #2
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
you posted "carb has an e-clip and two washers per needle"

This indicates the presence of a jet kit (brand?) so ....some tuning is required.
If you could ID the brand of jet kit, it would be helpful. The brand and size of the main jet may offer a clue to the jet kit. Factory Pro, Dynojet are the most popular.

Personally, I use a specialized custom spacer above jet kit needles, thus preventing needle "float" which is often present without them.

A close up pic of your main jet may provide a clue.
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Old October 7th, 2023, 03:06 PM   #3
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First let me state you are the best my boss informed me that it wasn’t jetted, but I thought it was to start with because stock needles don’t have the E clip, so I’m actually not sure of what brand it is is there any chance you could tell me how to find out? And where to go from there he had idle issues to begin with when I took the carb apart I found out that it had a torn diaphragm so I replacedthe Diaphragm’s and cleaned out the carb but I wasn’t 100%. On where those washers went. And thank you for the help.
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Old October 7th, 2023, 03:11 PM   #4
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Or if I went back to stock needles, would that be OK?
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Old October 7th, 2023, 03:14 PM   #5
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It is my bosses bike i have a bit of knowledge on 250 carbs cause I own one but I’ve never dealt with a jet kit it has a two brothers exhaust and 2 washers per needle
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Old October 7th, 2023, 04:11 PM   #6
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I will post some pictures later tonight once I tear the carb back down thanks again!
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Old October 7th, 2023, 04:25 PM   #7
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
Be sure to get the main jet size (stamped into the side) as well. Dynojet uses their own jets, easily discernable. Could also be inconclusive if stock jets are present. Lets see what you've got first.
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Old October 7th, 2023, 05:51 PM   #8
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How do I send images on here
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Old October 7th, 2023, 05:54 PM   #9
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Ok here
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4067.jpg (88.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4066.jpg (108.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4065.jpg (119.4 KB, 2 views)
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Old October 7th, 2023, 05:55 PM   #10
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There is nothing stamped in the side just 98 on the very top
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Old October 7th, 2023, 06:24 PM   #11
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
By the look of the main and your reporting of jet size on top.....I'd venture to say you've got a Dynojet kit in there. I'd drop the circlips down to the next cutaway ....the 4th? Using 1 washer below, 1 above the needle. See how she runs/reacts to throttle, report back.

It would seem to me that the circlip set in #3, which is the basic starting position, thus indicating no further tuning procedure was attempted (?)

Anyways....try position #4, set/reset both pilot screws for highest idle speed.
Post your findings.

EDITED TO ADD......Dynojet stage 3 kit shows 104, 108, 112, 116 as supplied mains. Somebody may have been playin' already.
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Old October 8th, 2023, 05:19 AM   #12
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Ok awesome I’ll give that a try
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Old October 8th, 2023, 05:26 AM   #13
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By highest idle do you mean lean out the pilots all the way or start in stock position which is 2/1/2 turns?
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Old October 8th, 2023, 05:49 AM   #14
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
start at 2 1/2.....go in/out as necessary to achieve highest idle speed in each cylinder

In what position were the circlips found in (prior to reset to #4) ?????
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Old October 8th, 2023, 06:21 AM   #15
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Spot 3 there are 6 grooves they were in the middle
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Old October 8th, 2023, 06:31 AM   #16
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I’m taking the body to be ultrasonic cleaned today as well not taking any chances
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Old October 8th, 2023, 07:29 AM   #17
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
shoulda, woulda, coulda......my service employs multiple (proven) cleaning programs including ultrasonic, micro-soda blasting and compressed air. Quite effective at clearing the tiny circuits involved. See pics in my other threads.

Currently (today) doing a set of Ducati/Mikuni carbs from a mid-90's 900SS.

Further adjustments may be required, lets see how yours perform.
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Last futzed with by ducatiman; October 8th, 2023 at 12:06 PM.
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Old October 8th, 2023, 07:34 AM   #18
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Sounds great thank you!!
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Old October 9th, 2023, 11:53 AM   #19
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
well, wha' happened? Any news to report?
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Old October 10th, 2023, 05:57 PM   #20
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Ok followed advice it seems to run pretty. Descent right now it’s not hanging stalling or stumbling I need a bit more time tommorrow to take out on a test ride and get warmed up but so far so good thank you I’ll report back tomorrow with more info
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Old October 10th, 2023, 06:21 PM   #21
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
great to hear good results so far
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Old October 12th, 2023, 03:24 PM   #22
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It sounds like it breaks up a little bit hard to rev popping as I adjust for leaning or rich it doesn’t really change except for hanging or dipping
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Old October 12th, 2023, 03:25 PM   #23
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Coil packs test fine and plugs are new
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Old October 12th, 2023, 03:29 PM   #24
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Gutless no power right around 5k rpm it just stops building power sounds like a mower

Last futzed with by BabyHands; October 12th, 2023 at 04:55 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2023, 04:42 PM   #25
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
a petcock flow test should determine whether sufficient fuel is being delivered
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Old October 12th, 2023, 04:58 PM   #26
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I used an aux tank to test that I also thought that could’ve been an issue I did a little more research found out it’s a Dynojet stage 2 kit a #98 jet do you think moving that clip back in the stock position with one washer above and underneath would solve it? Problem is I don’t know if it’s a lean or rich condition. I sprayed for vaccum leaks. It sounds like it’s gurgling it pops at first sounded like a misfire had that lawnmower sound
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Old October 12th, 2023, 05:58 PM   #27
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
i'm thinking the 98 main is too lean

can you do a plug chop?
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Old October 12th, 2023, 06:01 PM   #28
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I just put fresh ones in there not to long ago. I’ll take em out and verify the ring though I’m looking for a chocolate consistency right black is overly rich light is overly lean
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Old October 12th, 2023, 06:03 PM   #29
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The noise was so weird it ran fine on those jets until the diaphragm tore. The main jet has 2 tiny holes as opposed to the stock jets. Doesn’t add up I’m so stumped
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Old October 12th, 2023, 06:18 PM   #30
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyHands View Post
The noise was so weird it ran fine on those jets until the diaphragm tore. The main jet has 2 tiny holes as opposed to the stock jets. Doesn’t add up I’m so stumped
WTF? 2 holes? I've never seen/heard of such an arrangement!

You are sure the diaphragms are seated correctly?
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Old October 12th, 2023, 06:22 PM   #31
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Yes check out those pictures I sent you can see the small holes in the jet it’s odd it ran good you were definitely right on the Dynojet kit I found that it’s apparently a stage 2?
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Old October 12th, 2023, 06:27 PM   #32
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So I’m not 100% sure of what the stock jet is supposed to be I read stock is a 105 so I should have a 105 or a 102dynojet in there correct? If that’s the case how the heck was it running so good? And if that’s the case what needles are these and would it matter?
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Old October 12th, 2023, 06:36 PM   #33
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No I’m sorry the stock jet is a 98 which is different than dynojets 98 which apparently is a tad bigger so maybe it is rich? I’m gonna pull those plugs
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Old October 12th, 2023, 07:32 PM   #34
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
2 holes in your main jets? I'm still totally confused by this report. Both stock and Dynojet mains have 1 metering hole. Can't find any pic with a 2 hole main....could you post a pic? Totally confusing. We need to get by this issue first and foremost. Something is wrong.
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Old October 15th, 2023, 10:02 AM   #35
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Sorry I was confused the tube has two holes I switched the eclip back to stock and 2 washers above seems to run happy but it’s weird at mid to low range rpm still feels sluggish sounds less like a tractor and builds a bit more power but still
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Old October 15th, 2023, 10:02 AM   #36
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Plugs looked ok
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Old October 15th, 2023, 10:04 AM   #37
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The tube connected to the main jet I have no idea what this is called I know it mixes fuel
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Old October 15th, 2023, 10:18 AM   #38
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
Emulsion tube....is correct name
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Old October 15th, 2023, 10:40 AM   #39
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
you may attempt a trial with #40 pilot jets....you're not the 1st one to do this.

At this point I'm wondering what effect a "pregen" emulsion tube would offer?
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Old October 15th, 2023, 11:54 AM   #40
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Ok so it was building power ok. But the wasn’t building power off the bat it took a few seconds to start to pick up on high revs sounds great but coasting lightly on the throttle it sounds horrible
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