Upgrade Questions and Recommendations?

k1prototype · October 5th, 2009, 01:54 AM

After owning my bike for almost a year now there are many likes that dislikes I have with the 250.

Likes: perfect bike for having fun but within reasonable and legal expections. It really reminds me of a Honda S2000 or Civic Si. You can have fun enjoying the rush of high rpms but you aren't breaking the speed limit to achieve that feeling like you would on a 600cc Super Sport.

Dislikes: this is really personal, but at 5'11" 210 lbs the bike feels a bit cramped and my butt, shoulders, and back take a toll on long distance rides.

I drove a 05 ZX-6R 636 and loved the stability of bike but the warp drive power (compared to the 250) and seating position was something which I automatically felt would get me into trouble in no time on the streets.

Although it has been a great bike and I am planning on keeping it for those occasional twisty roads, living in Chicago where the twisties are few and far between has me looking at purchasing something that is more oriented for sport touring.

Maybe its just a weird desire to get out of Illinois and travel but I would like to have something that would be a great all rounder which could still hold its own in the twisties.

Option 1: Can I merely resolve my problems with the 250 by installing a corbin seat, clip-ons and higher windscreen? My hopes with this would be to take the wind off of my chest and over my helmet by making myself more aerodynamic.

Option2: If I were to look into a 600cc bike like the Ninja 600r or YZF600 would it help resolve that cramped feeling but still be adequate to take a good cross country trip without experiencing butt, back and shoulder pain?

The main benefit I could think of in this case would be something that would still be fun in the twisties which would allow me to sell the 250 and keep my insurance costs down by only having one bike.

Option3: Would it be better to get something that is really geared towards sport touring?

I was looking at a bmw f800st, but wasn't sure if that would be too much of a bike considering the 250 is my first bike.

I did a bit of research on the site and on the web but I would like to get some fresh insight from those that have encountered this dilemma before and the outcome you chose.

adouglas · October 5th, 2009, 05:12 AM

Do you move around on the bike when you ride or just stay in one position all the time? That has a HUGE impact on comfort during long rides.

At the beginning of August I did a 2600 mile tour on my 08 250R and found it quite comfortable.

I posted some details of how I kept comfortable by moving around in the CT to Indy ride report thread.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=19

I am shorter than you... I'm 5'7". So my legs aren't folded up quite as tight, but I to have to reach for the bars more. It's a tradeoff. If I sit on a supersport bike, to do anything but stiff-arm the clip-ons I literally have to lie on the tank.

I find myself shoving my butt all the way back in the seat and tucking a lot on the highway. Resting my torso on the tank (or tank bag) takes the stress off my shoulders and arms and also helps aerodynamics a lot.

I've got a Zero Gravity Double Bubble and if I'm sitting upright the wind hits me in the upper chest. The only way I get down out of it is in a full tuck, and even then it's hitting the top of the helmet. If you want the wind to actually go over your head you need a touring bike with a tall windscreen.

g21-30 · October 5th, 2009, 05:23 AM

I'm 6'2" and have the ZG Sport Touring Windshield. If I situp, the wind hits me in the face; however, I can tuck behind the windshield and avoid the wind. The Buell pegs help the legs stretch out.

SteveL · October 5th, 2009, 05:24 AM

I have just upgraded my bike as I wanted a bit more of a touring machine; I am 5’11”and 190 pounds so not much different from you. I have ridden the Ninja 650R and would have bought one except the agent was not flexible on price so I ended up with a
GSX 650 F, from the riding position there is not much between the three on the 250 R you lean a little more forward but not much, the seat is another story the 250 R is not much better than a park bench where you have comfort on the other two. Having four cylinders makes a big difference smooth power at all revs down side it’s heavier than the
Ninja 650 R the BMW is just way too expensive for me anyway and it’s still a twin.

Steve

Flashmonkey · October 5th, 2009, 08:52 AM

You should definitely sit on a bunch of different bikes to get a feel for them...and I mean really sit on them. Get into full position and hold it for a few minutes. I generally find that the supersports tend to have a lot more knee bend, putting the hip flexors in a more contracted position...but this depends on the manufacturer, as some positions can be more extreme than others.

I'm about your height/weight so I'll throw in my observations. I most recently sat on an 01 zx9r and zx6r and those bikes are surprisingly comfortable. Lots of legroom. Also sat on a Ninja 650r, a Versys and the latest ZX-6R, along with a few R6's and CBR600's. Top contenders (for me) for long distance sport touring is definitely going to be the Versys, the FZ6R, or even the 01 zx6r/zzr600 (yes, the leg positioning is that impressive). Adequate wind protection is a must.

For alternative reasons (ie: hubris), my "upgrade" bike was an older model gixxer 750. The hips tend to cramp up a bit more, but the strain off my back and bottom end is no longer an issue. Also the superior wind protection reduces overall fatigue significantly, despite the exacerbated cramping. Take your time and really be picky.

k1prototype · October 5th, 2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adouglas

At the beginning of August I did a 2600 mile tour on my 08 250R and found it quite comfortable.

Andrew your thread was the motivation that made me really consider the 250r as a fully capable tourer with some changes.

That is where the dilemma begins...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveL

BMW is just way too expensive for me anyway and it’s still a twin.

Steve that was the major problem when I was considering a full on sport tourer like the BMW...

I'm hoping to get more of an opportunity to try out other bikes an see how I feel. As James stated; i've also heard great things about the zzr600 ex-zx-6r. I had a chance to sit on the SV650S and the FZ6R and I really liked them both. I've never had a chance to sit on a full blown sport tourer and will try to sit on one to get a good comparison.

In terms of getting hardbags and additional accessories to make the trip easier, is there either one better then the other?

In terms of handling vs. weight is any one (zzr600, sv650s, FZ6R better then the other? I love the flickablity of the 250 but would be willing to trade some of that for more highway smoothness as long as it still put a smile on my face once I got to the corners. Also is there any other good bikes that can do the job?

almost40 · October 5th, 2009, 09:47 AM

Id take a trip to the Yamaha dealership and check out an FZ-6. Plenty of grunt, good price, a good all around sport tourer. The GSX 650 is also a nice choice. The 2 are similar and you should be able to get a smokin deal on either. The FZ engine shares ALOT of engine parts with the earlier R-6. The GSX shares ALOT of parts with the Bandit. So parts avalibility is never a problem and theres plenty of upgrades for both. Both are very comfortable for bigger guys.
Im talking about the FZ-6 not the FZ-6R theres about 30 more HP on tap and a big windscreen.

backinthesaddleagain · October 5th, 2009, 10:02 AM

I belive the FZ6 (not R) also has aluminum frame and slightly wider rear tire. FWIW

Flashmonkey · October 5th, 2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1prototype

In terms of getting hardbags and additional accessories to make the trip easier, is there either one better then the other?

Well I haven't looked into this much, admittedly, but in terms of a pure luggage availability point of view, I'm fairly certain that the FZ6 will take the pie on this one. VFR's are also fairly pimp as well!

djpharoah · October 5th, 2009, 11:53 AM

I recently changed my old pregen 250 to a 98 CBR600. I found after sitting and riding a few of the newer 600 SS bikes that

1) They are way too twitchy. Must be the FI but when I test rode a few carb'd bikes they were smoother in delivery of power.
2) The newer 600s have race like ergonomics meant for the track. Which is fine and dandy if you enjoy that but after a while it gets old. I'm 6'2 so I didn't want to fold into a pretzel every time I ride.
3) The older 600s (prior to say 2003) have a much easier and relaxed position compared to the newer ones. Of course they will still be a bit more aggressive than the 250s.
4) If you are trying for say something new I'd recommend a Yamaha YZ-6, Honda Interceptor VFR, SV650 (if you can still find them).

Hope this helps. Once I made the move over I was glad that I did. Freeway stability, wind resistance and the power on tap makes the bike experience for commuting a lot better for me.

mcteague · October 5th, 2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

I belive the FZ6 (not R) also has aluminum frame and slightly wider rear tire. FWIW

I bought a leftover '08 FZ6 this Summer. My 250R was killing my back and knees. The FZ6 has a 180 rear tire and a clever two piece alum frame. I am 6'1" and it feels great although my butt gets a bit sore after a couple of hours. Nothing like the pain my 250 gave me even with a Corbin seat.

However, Yamaha is dropping it from the US lineup in 2010. The FZ6R is a step down from the FZ6 by most accounts. Less power, steel frame, cheaper brakes, etc. However, along with 30 less hp the FZ6R seems to have a smoother throttle and more beginner friendly power curve.

Tim

backinthesaddleagain · October 5th, 2009, 12:32 PM

VFR is a great sport tourer. Many years of bike of the year. Derived from the original interceptor its gained a bit of weight, but riding position is sporty , not punishing. Some don't like the vtec though. I am not sure how seamless the vtec acts when activating the remaining valves.

noche_caliente · October 5th, 2009, 04:39 PM

I can't say much about the height thing, as I'm one of the shorties who has to lower the bike, however the Corbin did make a rather large difference IMO. I was getting to the point where the stock seat was bearable, but the Corbin is worlds above. Now that it's getting broken in and forming to my shape it's even better. NJD022588 has done the clip-ons and rear-sets, and he's quite tall compared to me - you might shoot him a note to get some impressions...
As for the wind screen - I went to the Puig DB and it moved the wind from chest-level to visor level - don't know that it's really all that much better- I'll get Nick to ride mine the next time he's around and get his impressions on the wind screen for you if you're interested

revstriker · October 5th, 2009, 08:39 PM

I would recommend Option 2 or 3.

When looking at bikes, I think it's hard to judge comfort from just sitting on it, or even a short test ride. When I first sat on my 09 zx-6r and took a test ride, it felt very aggressive compared to the 250r. I had a 45 minute drive back home, and was really starting to question my decision. My back ached a bit, and so did my wrists. However, after a few rides, I got very used to the riding position, and now, I find it more comfortable than the 250. Not sure I'd want to take it touring, but then, I really didn't buy it for that.

k1prototype · October 6th, 2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

I'll get Nick to ride mine the next time he's around and get his impressions on the wind screen for you if you're interested

Kim if you could I would appreciate it. The longest I have ridden was about two hours solid stopping eating and two hours back, and by the end of each stint I was aching. Maybe the windscreen would be a cheap fix to help sort out the problem.

October 5th, 2009, 05:24 AM	#4
SteveL old git Name: Steve Location: Geneve Switzerland Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW K1300S Posts: 479	I have just upgraded my bike as I wanted a bit more of a touring machine; I am 5’11”and 190 pounds so not much different from you. I have ridden the Ninja 650R and would have bought one except the agent was not flexible on price so I ended up with a GSX 650 F, from the riding position there is not much between the three on the 250 R you lean a little more forward but not much, the seat is another story the 250 R is not much better than a park bench where you have comfort on the other two. Having four cylinders makes a big difference smooth power at all revs down side it’s heavier than the Ninja 650 R the BMW is just way too expensive for me anyway and it’s still a twin. Steve __________________________________________________ Some mistakes are too much fun to make only once.

October 5th, 2009, 09:47 AM	#7
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	Id take a trip to the Yamaha dealership and check out an FZ-6. Plenty of grunt, good price, a good all around sport tourer. The GSX 650 is also a nice choice. The 2 are similar and you should be able to get a smokin deal on either. The FZ engine shares ALOT of engine parts with the earlier R-6. The GSX shares ALOT of parts with the Bandit. So parts avalibility is never a problem and theres plenty of upgrades for both. Both are very comfortable for bigger guys. Im talking about the FZ-6 not the FZ-6R theres about 30 more HP on tap and a big windscreen. __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

October 5th, 2009, 04:39 PM	#13
noche_caliente ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Kim Location: mundo de ensueño Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.	I can't say much about the height thing, as I'm one of the shorties who has to lower the bike, however the Corbin did make a rather large difference IMO. I was getting to the point where the stock seat was bearable, but the Corbin is worlds above. Now that it's getting broken in and forming to my shape it's even better. NJD022588 has done the clip-ons and rear-sets, and he's quite tall compared to me - you might shoot him a note to get some impressions... As for the wind screen - I went to the Puig DB and it moved the wind from chest-level to visor level - don't know that it's really all that much better- I'll get Nick to ride mine the next time he's around and get his impressions on the wind screen for you if you're interested __________________________________________________ Progrip tank pad, blue rim stripes, blue Pazzos, Roaring Toyz lowering kit, Puig DB in dark smoke, Cortech sport tail, super mini tank, and saddlebags, OES swingarm spools and Intuitive frame sliders

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October 5th, 2009, 05:12 AM	#2
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	Do you move around on the bike when you ride or just stay in one position all the time? That has a HUGE impact on comfort during long rides. At the beginning of August I did a 2600 mile tour on my 08 250R and found it quite comfortable. I posted some details of how I kept comfortable by moving around in the CT to Indy ride report thread. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=19 I am shorter than you... I'm 5'7". So my legs aren't folded up quite as tight, but I to have to reach for the bars more. It's a tradeoff. If I sit on a supersport bike, to do anything but stiff-arm the clip-ons I literally have to lie on the tank. I find myself shoving my butt all the way back in the seat and tucking a lot on the highway. Resting my torso on the tank (or tank bag) takes the stress off my shoulders and arms and also helps aerodynamics a lot. I've got a Zero Gravity Double Bubble and if I'm sitting upright the wind hits me in the upper chest. The only way I get down out of it is in a full tuck, and even then it's hitting the top of the helmet. If you want the wind to actually go over your head you need a touring bike with a tall windscreen.

October 5th, 2009, 05:23 AM	#3
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 and ZX-12R 2000 Posts: A lot.	I'm 6'2" and have the ZG Sport Touring Windshield. If I situp, the wind hits me in the face; however, I can tuck behind the windshield and avoid the wind. The Buell pegs help the legs stretch out.

October 5th, 2009, 08:52 AM	#5
Flashmonkey Professional belly dancer Name: James Location: Toronto Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 1992 GSX-R 750 Posts: A lot.	You should definitely sit on a bunch of different bikes to get a feel for them...and I mean really sit on them. Get into full position and hold it for a few minutes. I generally find that the supersports tend to have a lot more knee bend, putting the hip flexors in a more contracted position...but this depends on the manufacturer, as some positions can be more extreme than others. I'm about your height/weight so I'll throw in my observations. I most recently sat on an 01 zx9r and zx6r and those bikes are surprisingly comfortable. Lots of legroom. Also sat on a Ninja 650r, a Versys and the latest ZX-6R, along with a few R6's and CBR600's. Top contenders (for me) for long distance sport touring is definitely going to be the Versys, the FZ6R, or even the 01 zx6r/zzr600 (yes, the leg positioning is that impressive). Adequate wind protection is a must. For alternative reasons (ie: hubris), my "upgrade" bike was an older model gixxer 750. The hips tend to cramp up a bit more, but the strain off my back and bottom end is no longer an issue. Also the superior wind protection reduces overall fatigue significantly, despite the exacerbated cramping. Take your time and really be picky.

October 5th, 2009, 10:02 AM	#8
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	I belive the FZ6 (not R) also has aluminum frame and slightly wider rear tire. FWIW

October 5th, 2009, 11:53 AM	#10
djpharoah \m/ Name: Mesh Location: Irvine, CA Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): CBR600F3 Smokin Joes Posts: 138	I recently changed my old pregen 250 to a 98 CBR600. I found after sitting and riding a few of the newer 600 SS bikes that 1) They are way too twitchy. Must be the FI but when I test rode a few carb'd bikes they were smoother in delivery of power. 2) The newer 600s have race like ergonomics meant for the track. Which is fine and dandy if you enjoy that but after a while it gets old. I'm 6'2 so I didn't want to fold into a pretzel every time I ride. 3) The older 600s (prior to say 2003) have a much easier and relaxed position compared to the newer ones. Of course they will still be a bit more aggressive than the 250s. 4) If you are trying for say something new I'd recommend a Yamaha YZ-6, Honda Interceptor VFR, SV650 (if you can still find them). Hope this helps. Once I made the move over I was glad that I did. Freeway stability, wind resistance and the power on tap makes the bike experience for commuting a lot better for me.

October 5th, 2009, 12:32 PM	#12
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	VFR is a great sport tourer. Many years of bike of the year. Derived from the original interceptor its gained a bit of weight, but riding position is sporty , not punishing. Some don't like the vtec though. I am not sure how seamless the vtec acts when activating the remaining valves.

October 5th, 2009, 08:39 PM	#14
revstriker ninjette.org sage Name: Scott Location: DFW TX Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609	I would recommend Option 2 or 3. When looking at bikes, I think it's hard to judge comfort from just sitting on it, or even a short test ride. When I first sat on my 09 zx-6r and took a test ride, it felt very aggressive compared to the 250r. I had a 45 minute drive back home, and was really starting to question my decision. My back ached a bit, and so did my wrists. However, after a few rides, I got very used to the riding position, and now, I find it more comfortable than the 250. Not sure I'd want to take it touring, but then, I really didn't buy it for that.