Tig welder Woes...

[Bob KellyIII]

AHHHH ! ok thank you NOW I understand ! so there wasn't a thing wrong with the torch
the machine just didn't work ! for some reason.
OK.... that changes things a bit....
I know that in welding alot of the times you need to change the polarity of the electrodes
which for my Lincoln AC 225 welder is impossable because it has no provisions for changing the polarity.... My other AC/DC welder had a humgous switch that changed polarity so I could weld cast iron ,and Aluminum with the stick welder ! (that is why I got it.... I needed to weld cast Iron !) however it burned up in the Ranch fire !
and only the AC welder survived .
so they do make a adaptor so you can switch polarities ! that is good to know
However I doubt I would need that anytime soon as I no longer live on the Ranch anymore ! <GRIN>
I'm liking the looks of the VEVOR welder better than any of the others...
but I will still have to go get a bottle of Argon from 70 miles away ! but if I am ever going to fix the teeth on the Logan lathe gears by Silicone bronze brazing I'll have to !
( I am aware of the necessity of pre heating cast iron gears ! )
....
as a side note I learned the pre heating trick the hard way.... I had a starter snorkel
that kept breaking on the furgie tractor at the ranch.... I welded it 3 times and it broke
every time right beside the weld. I read somewhere that preheating cast iron before you weld was important... so I got ready to weld it again with the cast iron rod on my AC/DC welder and then tossed the snorkel in the brush fire I had going.... hours later it was glowing red.... so I dug it out of the ashes and took it to the welding bench set up and welded it again..... and after it was welded I put it beck in the fire to releave the stress
created by welding and it got cherry red again.... the next day after the fire was out
I pulled it out, cleaned it off ,painted it, and re installed the starter ...and it never broke again ! it was still going 15 years later when I sold it !
I have sense learned you only have to reach about 500 degrees not cherry red !
but cherry red won't hurt !
....
thank You Danno ! you taught me something tonight ! ( a rare occurrence anymore !)
all you would have had to say is they changed things Bob they use the shielding as the power cord now..... HAHAHAHA ! But thank you for persevering and getting it through my thick skull ! HAHAHAH!
.....
Bob.

[Bob KellyIII]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

That's the problem!!! You got wrong ideas from YouTube!!!

Default stick-welding is done with DCEP - electrode positive. Connect stick-holder to red terminal on welder and connect ground-clamp to black terminal.

Default TIG welding configuration is DCEN - electrode -negative. The combo gas-electric TIG torche is connected to negative black terminal internally in welder. Then ground-clamp is connected to red terminal.


You didn't swap ground-clamp from black terminal to red terminal when you switched from stick to TIG welding did you? Aiming -neg torche electrode to -neg workpiece would result in ZERO current flowing because there's no voltage-differential.

....

No I kept the Ground in the same terminal.... but the machine just didn't work.... it worked great for stick welding, I welded aluminum stick welding on the bark busters on the Kids bike that I busted by falling over trying to start that tall thing..... ( t'was quite embarrassing!) but I did weld it up and fix it nicely.... it's stronger than the other one now !
....

Maybe my next welder will work the way it is supposed to !
....
Bob......

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

....

No I kept the Ground in the same terminal.... but the machine just didn't work.... it worked great for stick welding, I welded aluminum stick welding on the bark busters on the Kids bike that I busted by falling over trying to start that tall thing..... ( t'was quite embarrassing!) but I did weld it up and fix it nicely.... it's stronger than the other one now !
....

Maybe my next welder will work the way it is supposed to !
....
Bob......

You must change ground-clamp to red terminal when switching from stick to TIG mode because torche is NEGATIVE. No way around that. Next welder won't work either until you do that.

Take that steel-braided brake hose earlier.
Touch one end to battery -neg terminal.
Then touch other end to same -neg terminal.
What happens?

[Bob KellyIII]

Ahhh that makes sense ! you know if they told you that in the instructions it sure would have helped !
so I had the same polarity when trying to TIG weld ?
but I set it up like the instructions said I think...
I don't know second guessing myself after the fact isn't doing anything at this stage.
I just know it should'a worked and didn't !
I'm not sure, but I think I tried both positions for the ground clamp trying to get the thing to arc...... I did everything I could think of and nothing happened it just clicked.
......
On that machine the Hose for the Argon hookup was directly in the middle between the Red and black terminals .....no way to tell by looking at it what polarity it had just by looking....(if any)

....
I went to Harbor freight tools last night to try and redeem my $15.00 of Rewards I had earned.... but the guy told me I needed the bar code so I said ok it's a bunch of BULL **** and walked off !
I went and looked at their TIG TORCH 150Amp unit and it had the separate power plug in like it should have... not like the torch on the Tooliom unit. so 2 different types of torches out now and the machines that use them are set up differently. something to be aware of !....

Who knows the welder may well have been working fine and it was the operator that was screwed up ! ( wouldn't be the first time that has happened! LOL)
.....
the thing is I expected a old style TIG welder not some intrigrated gasline terminal
thing with fixed polarity for the TIG torch.... and if they tell you that in the literature they do it with letters and your supposed to know what those letters mean if you don't it's all greek.....
....
ah well it's all water under the bridge now...
....
Bob.......

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

Ahhh that makes sense ! you know if they told you that in the instructions it sure would have helped !
so I had the same polarity when trying to TIG weld ?
but I set it up like the instructions said I think...
I don't know second guessing myself after the fact isn't doing anything at this stage.
I just know it should'a worked and didn't !
I'm not sure, but I think I tried both positions for the ground clamp trying to get the thing to arc...... I did everything I could think of and nothing happened it just clicked.
......
On that machine the Hose for the Argon hookup was directly in the middle between the Red and black terminals .....no way to tell by looking at it what polarity it had just by looking....(if any)

....
I went to Harbor freight tools last night to try and redeem my $15.00 of Rewards I had earned.... but the guy told me I needed the bar code so I said ok it's a bunch of BULL **** and walked off !
I went and looked at their TIG TORCH 150Amp unit and it had the separate power plug in like it should have... not like the torch on the Tooliom unit. so 2 different types of torches out now and the machines that use them are set up differently. something to be aware of !....

Who knows the welder may well have been working fine and it was the operator that was screwed up ! ( wouldn't be the first time that has happened! LOL)
.....
the thing is I expected a old style TIG welder not some intrigrated gasline terminal
thing with fixed polarity for the TIG torch.... and if they tell you that in the literature they do it with letters and your supposed to know what those letters mean if you don't it's all greek.....
....
ah well it's all water under the bridge now...
....
Bob.......

heh, heh... they did write it up, but with dexlysia twist. Go to instructions for Tooliom welder:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HOM...y6fiiTVnN/view

Go to bottom of Page-7 - HF TIG WELDING SET-UP
Read from there to top of Page-8 where it says...

"- Insert the Brass Connector of Ground Cable into the Positive (Red+) in Lower Right Front Panel of the Welder

They got their left <--> right mixed up.

Yeah, HF's welders are previous generation, probably getting them made private-label for cheaper than current models. Seems to last and works! Sold my HF Uno MIG welder after using it for 30-yrs. I upgraded analogue SCR speed-controller to digital PWM unit for much finer control and more torque. Added Hobart output capacitor for smoother sizzle! Was still going strong and new owner very happy.

I'm on my 2nd TIG unit from HF, upgraded from 120a to 145a model about 10-yrs ago. It's been working great! Thinking about getting AC TIG for working with aluminium... might just go to laser...

[Bob KellyIII]

was just talking to the wife about the HF Titanium 200 pro TIG unit on sail right now for $899. it was you gott'a be kidding right ? what do you need THAT for ! LOL
.... and she IS Right I don't Need it .... I just Want it ! LOL
...
I think I will see if I can put it on my HF Card ! HA !
that welder has the proper TORCH on it !
....
Bob......

[DannoXYZ]

hahaha!!

Sometimes sticking with old tried & true tech is simpler! I'm trying to figure out how to retrofit manual transmission to latest A90 Supra. Never ever liked auto transmissions. Won't have one on any of my cars. Especially track-driven one...

Kinda riding bike with stereo ... why?

[Bob KellyIII]

Sounds like your into making your own adaptor plate ....that should be a challenge !
not something I would tackle !LOL.... my Mill ain't up to that kind of work !
one of these days I will re make my Mill and make it really useable right now there is just too much chatter to be useable, live and learn !
....
Bob......

[DannoXYZ]

heh, heh.. adapter-plate's easy part.

I need to sniff communications between ECU and transmission and see how they're talking to each other. Probably some kind of serial line like CANbus. Not as easy to spoof as older analogue style with using dummy resistors to simulate solenoids.

[Bob KellyIII]

Do you mean to tell me that the transmition Talks to the ECU TOO ? God what have we done to ourselves ! what's wrong with just push in the clutch and shift? you need an older transmition buddy !!!

....
Bob....

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

Do you mean to tell me that the transmition Talks to the ECU TOO ?

My 1988 Dodge van's ECU controls its A500 transmission. This is not new stuff.

[Bob KellyIII]

Uh ! first I hurd of it ! all through the 80's and 90's I was too busy working and trying
to get ahead than worry about vehicles, wound up in Reno NV. went through just about every job available in that town too! I was hired and fired more than anyone alive back in the day.... but look where it got me.... the answer is to Keep your job, knuckle under like a good slave and keep your mouth shut.... I never learned that , and that's why I'm poor
some Kids should learn from that !
....
Most of the comunication as you call it going on between the transmition and the engine back then was just indicator lights for the gear you were in... they worked fine disconnected... but I would think they would have FIXED that fairly quickly too
....
I wonder if my slingshot is dry... I glued it together this morning... it should be.
to the shop !
later !
Bob......

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

Most of the comunication as you call it going on between the transmition and the engine back then was just indicator lights for the gear you were in... they worked fine disconnected...

The '88 Dodge van's ECU tells the A500 transmission what gear to be in, and when to shift. If you disconnect the ECU, the transmission does not work fine.

[Bob KellyIII]

LOL so much for inovation.... the engine transmition and ECU then become a UNIT and can't be seperated.....well, without major difficulties !....
Most of the cars and trucks I've had in my life were 1970's and earlier... I did have a Toyota pickup that I really regret getting rid of...it had the R22 engine F.I. and a 5 speed trans. that was the best modern truck I ever owned.... the ford ranger I bought in Reno
was a P.O.S. I'll never buy a ford again ! besides the dealership stiffed me on that one!
the truck was not worth fighting for.... flemzy beyond belief ! the body work could be dented with your thumb !!!!! ( I KNOW I DID THAT! ) I couldn't believe it ! I had to take the door pannel off to push the dent back out with my HAND ! unreal !
....
I have a 1991 toyota Cilica in the yard I am trying to get rid of as I think the automatic transmition is going out in it.... so we quit driving it..... I hope it doesn't have it's transmition hooked to the computer like the Dodge did ! LOL
.... I've replaced the radiator on that car front axles and changed the oil so many times I lost count and it's got over 400k miles on it and still runs great .... we just don't need it, and I have a sign in the back window for sale $500.00 but nobody has even looked at it..... the city police stopped by and said if it has a PNO on it it has to be behind a 6' fence.... so rather than buy a battery for it and move it I'll just sell the darn thing !
.....
Bob.......

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

I have a 1991 toyota Cilica in the yard I am trying to get rid of as I think the automatic transmition is going out in it.... so we quit driving it..... I hope it doesn't have it's transmition hooked to the computer like the Dodge did ! LOL

Well... depending upon specific model and engine, that Celica may have an auto-transmission that requires BOTH ATF for transmission AND hypoid gear-oil for differential.... Many people forget to flush & replace differential fluid and end up with worn gears and bearings...

[Bob KellyIII]

Ohhhh ! SEPERATE ? it's all intergraded into one unit ! I hope your mistaken, because I never changed gear oil under the hood of that beast ! maybe that is why it felt like skipping a tooth..... it was ! ACK..... now I gott'a dig out the manual and see..... if I can find it !
....
Bob......

[Bob KellyIII]

Well, sold that Cilica a week or so ago.... had to get it out of the yard or I was going to have problems with the City of Weed, the Police told me you can't have a car on a non-opp
parked in your driveway, it has to be behind a 6' fence !!!!! he said the ordenance has been in effect for years but they only recently started inforcing it...too many junk cars arround he said....
....
I sold that car for only $500 bucks ! that kills me ! used on the kelly blue book was over 2,000 ! but ...that's the way it goes , first your money then your clothes!
.....
I did get a new TIG welder.....
and this one does work.... but it works funny not like the videos on youtube...
so I have been wondering sense I have it jerry rigged and hooked up to my air compressor because I have no Argon bottle, could the lack of Argon gas at the arc make the arc weak , less bright and bounce around all the time ? I've tried to lay a string of puddles on 1/4" steel plate but I cannot keep the arc going long enough to do that !
it's not at all like the arc from the stick welder it's a puny arc that is hard to keep going
I even turned it up all the way and plugged it into 220vac but it's the same
right now if I wanted to heat a piece of steel to red hot I would use the stick welder
or propane torch the TIG can't do it very well at all
.....
any comments ?
Bob.......

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

could the lack of Argon gas at the arc make the arc weak , less bright and bounce around all the time ?

Yes. It will be unusable unless you have a proper shielding gas.

[Bob KellyIII]

Ahh that figures.... I'll see if I can get a bottle of Argon before next year
...at this rate it is going to be a while however !...
thanks Jim....
Bob......

[Triple Jim]

The 90 cubic foot tanks are the best deal for me, now that I'm not welding daily. I own a couple so there's no rental charge, but the welding suppliers will swap them when I run one empty so I don't have to get them tested. 90 is the largest one they'll do that with. I used to have a 300, but it was $80/year rental on top of the cost of the gas. If you're not using it very quickly, it ends up costing more than owning a couple small tanks.

You can get away with owning one tank, but I prefer to use one up, change tanks, and swap the empty one at my convenience, rather than having one run out and stop my work until I can get a full tank. The suppliers will sell you a tank, but I don't know if you can buy empty tanks cheaper and get them filled. If you try to go that route, before you buy a tank, ask your supplier if he'll swap it. Some won't if you didn't buy it from them, so you have to drop it off, wait a week, then go get it, and when the test date runs out, you have to pay to get it tested.

If you buy a tank from the welding supplier, don't be alarmed when the guy brings out an old beat-up tank. Since you're swapping with rotated stock, you'll always be getting a used tank, but the included valve maintenance and tank testing mean that the tank you get will always be servicable.

If you know safety procedures for high pressure tanks, you can ignore this, but if you're not familiar, keep the protective top on it when you're handling it, and keep it strapped to the wall when it's connected. If one falls over and the valve hits something and gets broken off, the tank turns into a heavy steel rocket, and will go though things like brick walls. I know a welder who saw this happen firsthand, and I'm sure you can find videos on YT.

[Bob KellyIII]

I have a older 120c.f oxygen tank (what ever the big tall bottles are) and 2 small Accetiline tanks for the cutting torch but it all went through the Ranch fire and hoses and all the o-rings in all the torch tips and torch itself are gone... it can probably be rebuilt but that would probably cost more than a new set would...
....
But this will be the first Argon tank for me..... and Yes never move a high pressure tank without the cap on it..... I know a guy that was loading a bottle into his pickup truck and he didn't bother to put the cap on it.... it was about 1/2 full he said.... sure enough it fell off broke off the valve and ric-o-shayed
off the bumper and went through his shed like it was nothing stopped 50' away in a creek.... now he is adamant about putting a cap on any bottle he sees !
people do not realise they are bombs waiting for an excuse to go off,,,, even the small ones 3000.p.s.i. is nothing to sneeze at ! their missels !
.... My Dad had an employee drop a freshly charged oxygen bottle , he was changing it out (without the cap on it) and it went through the side of the building a concrete and cinder block building, but luckily went down the slight hill and stuck into the side of the railroad track embankment ! this was in town and it could have killed 10 people before it stopped !
..... those bottles are nothing to fool with !..... he was fired on the spot ! the repair to the building cost more than he was worth !
....
I'll probably get a small tank off the internet, probably can't re charge it but
going all the way to AIR-GAS in Redding is not my idea of fun either !
and after I get 2 or 3 of them I'll clean them out and make an aqualung ! LOL

so about how long will a small bottle last ya Jim ?

....
Bob......

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

so about how long will a small bottle last ya Jim ?

Do you mean one of my 90 cubic foot tanks? They last for quite a while. I think it's been over a year since I exchanged one. When I was making 2-stroke expansion chambers for Kaw triples, I went through a 300 cubic foot tank every couple of months.

I see that it's about 70 miles for you to get to Redding. That's like me going to Raleigh for supplies, which I have to do occasionally. You should work out what it costs for the various ways you can get argon, because I suspect you're way better off buying a tank or two that you can exchange than buying full tanks for one-time use.

[Bob KellyIII]

lol yah I know your right Jim ! .... say 400.bucks for one off the internet and $650. for one at AIR-GAS maybe more... that hurts !
....
yah welding up expansion pipes for the 750cc would take alot of gas NO DOUBT
that's many many hours on each pipe and theirs 3 of them to boot !
....
I just want to get good enough with the TIG to braze the gears on my Logan 911 lathe.... even if I have to hand file the tooth shape !
lol....
.....
Bob....

[Bob KellyIII]

I made a ZUSE torch so I could braze those gears.... its a propane torch with added air from the air compressor so it will burn hotter..... it hangs on the wall of my shop... un tried
as I decided not to heat the entire gear that hot for fear of cracking it..... it is cast iron
.... no biggy I guess if it did crack, I could just braze that too but I watched this old tony do silicon bronze brazing so many times and it looks so easy maybe even I could do that !
HAHAHAHAHHA besides learning to TIG weld tickles my fancy and I want to learn every aspect of it.....
....
and by the way, this torch on this TIG machine is exactly like the other one I sent back
but this one actually throws an arc the other one didn't .... same setup and everything
....
I think I'll just give AIR-GAS a call and see what they actually offer at that store.
....
Bob...