Why you are voting for Obama.

[massacremasses]

Why?

I dont want to flame anyone, I just really want to understand your reasoning. There are intelligent people voting for him, so id love to hear your reasoning.


*please if you are going to bash on anyone stay out of the thread, I really just want to understand. Ill post clarification posts, but I dont want to necessarily argue...

[Jono]

He is black! Gotta support a brother! And I am still waiting for him to do something.





*I am not black nor am I going to vote for him. Lol

[massacremasses]

I seriously want to know though. I know there are some on here, and I want them to speak up. I just want to understand. Ive written more than a few blog posts about why I support Ron Paul.

[Falcor]

Damn it, why did i register to vote... I personally don't like any of them.

[Liist]

If he gets reelected, fat white guys in the south get scared as hell and start buying up military style rifles, handguns, and ammunition. I remember the couple of months after Obama got elected and I couldn't find 9mm or 7.62x39 or .223 ammo anywhere.

So I'm stocking up before the election and I'll count on Obama to win. Then turn a massive profit when demand goes way up.

[massacremasses]

HAHAHAHA

Im actually stocking up on .40 ammo right now...

but yeah we couldnt get 9mm and it pissed me off so bad. I have a few friends that work in gun stores and they told me they are selling pistols and semi auto rifles like hot cakes.

[adouglas]

Because I fail to see how the economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place are going to get us out of it. We had two straight terms of tax cuts and trickle-down and we wound up with a near-collapse of the economy and the loss of millions of jobs. HELLO? IS ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION?

I like Ron Paul's ideas (some of 'em, anyway), but they're just fantasy. He'd never get the chance to enact them. They're even less realistic than the radical concept of real bipartisanship and a Congress that is in any way interested in actually getting anything done.

Speaking of ammo... I'm a CCW holder myself. Remember the massive spike in sales of guns and ammo in 08? Typical chicken-little tunnel-vision nonsense fueled by the far-right echo chamber. OMG! OMG! Obama in the White House! 2A is doomed!!!

Pfeh. It's a bunch of fear-mongering. Look at what's actually happened instead of the propaganda. Two major victories for gun advocates in the Supreme Court, no additional regulation, House passage of national right-to-carry reciprocity legislation (INTRODUCED BY TWO DEMOCRATS and also without the proverbial snowball's chance, but still).

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Because I fail to see how the economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place are going to get us out of it. We had two straight terms of tax cuts and trickle-down and we wound up with a near-collapse of the economy and the loss of millions of jobs. HELLO? IS ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION?

I like Ron Paul's ideas (some of 'em, anyway), but they're just fantasy. He'd never get the chance to enact them. They're even less realistic than the radical concept of real bipartisanship and a Congress that is in any way interested in actually getting anything done.

Speaking of ammo... I'm a CCW holder myself. Remember the massive spike in sales of guns and ammo in 08? Typical chicken-little tunnel-vision nonsense fueled by the far-right echo chamber. OMG! OMG! Obama in the White House! 2A is doomed!!!

Pfeh. It's a bunch of fear-mongering. Look at what's actually happened instead of the propaganda. Two major victories for gun advocates in the Supreme Court, no additional regulation, House passage of national right-to-carry reciprocity legislation (INTRODUCED BY TWO DEMOCRATS and also without the proverbial snowball's chance, but still).

Do you think the tax cuts are the only reason for the recession? This recession essentially a result of the Federal Reserve & banks' actions. The fed let bank loan rates get so low that banks were loaning out money to people who shouldn't get it. Then, the people who shouldn't get the money were not able to pay off their houses, which led to the housing market collapse & banking crisis.

It's a fact (even intro to busines clases show) that lower taxes & small businesses contribute to more job creation. Obama's massive stimulus (most of it wasted) actually prolonged the recession. Money coming from the government, creating government jobs does not help the economy. And, I won't even talk about his energy policy, which is meant to raise gas prices in order to promote alternative means.

People think that raising taxes on the 'wealthy' only affects rich people, but it hurts small businesses ultimately, therefore they will not hire & actually lay people off.


/essay

[Alex]

Originally Posted by xSean13

Do you think the tax cuts are the only reason for the recession? This recession essentially a result of the Federal Reserve & banks' actions. The fed let bank loan rates get so low that banks were loaning out money to people who shouldn't get it. Then, the people who shouldn't get the money were not able to pay off their houses, which led to the housing market collapse & banking crisis.

It's a fact (even intro to busines clases show) that lower taxes & small businesses contribute to more job creation. Obama's massive stimulus (most of it wasted) actually prolonged the recession. Money coming from the government, creating government jobs does not help the economy. And, I won't even talk about his energy policy, which is meant to raise gas prices in order to promote alternative means.

People think that raising taxes on the 'wealthy' only affects rich people, but it hurts small businesses ultimately, therefore they will not hire & actually lay people off.


/essay

Every single statement of what you believe to be a fact in this essay is provably wrong. It is insidiously repeated by both the knowingly cynical or unknowingly oblivious, but it makes it no more real than the tooth fairy.

["A"]

What is/are the alternative to Obama?
that's why I'm voting for Obama.

If Ron Paul even stands a chance to be nominated.. I'd go for him, but that's not likely to happen.

[massacremasses]

What is your defense of his signing of the NDAA? Please dont go back to Bush and the patriot act or that Romney would have signed it to (Im sure he and MCCain would have too) because I dont believe in this two party bullshit anymore.

Also Im trying to follow how Seans statements were false? Small business is the backbone of the US economy.

Govt. regulations forcing banks to give irresponsible loans, and banks just being stupid and giving them out was one of the main causes. Then to reward their irresponsibility the govt. bailed them out... Whats inaccurate about this?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by "A"

What is/are the alternative to Obama?
that's why I'm voting for Obama.

If Ron Paul even stands a chance to be nominated.. I'd go for him, but that's not likely to happen.

Third party. In reading your sig, you should know as well as anyone Obama is just another puppet. Ill write in Paul or vote third party. Neither Romney or Obama will ever get my support, while the "Ryan" plan is better than the train wreck of spending Obama is creating its still so weak it wont even make a dent in the deficit for years.

["A"]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Third party. In reading your sig, you should know as well as anyone Obama is just another puppet. Ill write in Paul or vote third party. Neither Romney or Obama will ever get my support, while the "Ryan" plan is better than the train wreck of spending Obama is creating its still so weak it wont even make a dent in the deficit for years.

So have you got a 3rd party candidate (who's not a puppet) that actually stands a better chance to get elected than Obama?

No, that's why I'm voting Obama.

You think the deficit cannot be covered by millionaires paying the same tax bracket as people who makes under $100k/yr?

[zenmedic]

Hey Justin, If your so against the bank bail out. Do a little google search first. Bush Jr bailed out the banks, and might I add lied about the actual amount bailed. Obama bailed out the auto industry....

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Third party. In reading your sig, you should know as well as anyone Obama is just another puppet. Ill write in Paul or vote third party. Neither Romney or Obama will ever get my support, while the "Ryan" plan is better than the train wreck of spending Obama is creating its still so weak it wont even make a dent in the deficit for years.

Link to original page on YouTube.

For the rest of the series.

http://blog.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/

I'm not going to talk about the economy much because of tribalism. If you cant overcome that, you wont understand nor care what I say.

[adouglas]

Well, the Bush tax cuts were sold on the idea that by giving so-called "job creators" a break they'd start hiring people. That's exactly what they did... in India and China. Thanks, guys!

The function of business in a capitalist society is to make as much profit as possible, no matter what it takes. These people aren't out to hire their neighbors or support their communities. They're out to maximize the stock price, period.

That's where these macroeconomic theories fall down. The logic that cutting taxes will encourage businesses and the wealthy to pump more money back into the US economy is demonstrably flawed. Why? Because it DIDN'T WORK when it was done. We've BEEN there already. Blaming the banks and the Fed may have some validity, but it begs the question... if tax cuts are the answer, then they should have made a positive difference, shouldn't they?

The rich didn't use the Bush tax cuts to pump money back into our economy, did they? If they had, then we would have had job growth, capital investment and all the rest. Didn't happen. The rest of us... tell me, what did we all do with those checks the government sent us? We didn't buy stuff. We paid off debt. The money had already been spent.

Originally Posted by xSean13

Obama's massive stimulus (most of it wasted) actually prolonged the recession.

A quick an non-scientific search revealed this timeline of the economic stimulus packages created BEFORE the 08 elections. Just sayin'. Yes, Obama kept going, but if you're going to slam the current administration for bailouts, shouldn't you also point the finger at the former administration too?

"Wasted" is ultimately a matter of guesswork. The issue is too complex for anyone to really say what would actually have happened had the stimulus packages (Bush's OR Obama's) not been put in place. The Republicans say that the money hasn't done any good. The Democrats say it would have been much worse if the money hadn't been spent.

Look, I'm a centrist. I distrust both extremes and I believe the worst thing to have happened to this country in a very long time is the unbelievable degree of partisanship that is now the norm, resulting largely from the fact that people have stopped listening to those who hold the other viewpoint. It's too easy to cherry-pick facts to support any extreme point of view you care to name, and to partisans that becomes "truth."

When it comes right down to it, I'm voting to put Obama back in because I think the neocons did a lot of damage to us both economically and on the world stage, and I don't think the current administration has ACTUALLY (rhetoric aside) made it any worse. The Republicans are promising nothing more than to go against Obama... there are no new ideas. It's just the same old stuff. Rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, middle class paying for both of 'em.


March 2008
$29 Billion Stimulus Package – Wall Street Bailout

May 2008
$178 Billion Stimulus Package – Average American Bailout

July 2008
$300 Billion Stimulus Package – Homeowners Bailout

September 2008
$200 Billion Stimulus Package – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Bailout

September 2008
$50 Billion Stimulus Package To Guarantee Money Market Funds

September 2008
$25 Billion Stimulus Package – Automakers Bailout

September – November 2008
$150 Billion Stimulus Package – AIG Bailout

October 2008
$700 Billion Stimulus Package – Banks Bailout

[zenmedic]

Amen, Mr. douglas. Man who does research NOT by watching faux news or MSNBC.....

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by zenmedic

Hey Justin, If your so against the bank bail out. Do a little google search first. Bush Jr bailed out the banks, and might I add lied about the actual amount bailed. Obama bailed out the auto industry....

Hey Jon, if youd have read my previous posts you would see I dont give a **** about Bush Jr. or what he did. He is the number 2 shittiest Pres. imo. Obama being number 1.

The Bush was worse cop out gets a little old, I know Bush gave out bailouts, but he isnt up for re-election. Obama is.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by "A"

What is/are the alternative to Obama?
that's why I'm voting for Obama.

If Ron Paul even stands a chance to be nominated.. I'd go for him, but that's not likely to happen.

I want to pummel idiots like you. That isn't how you're supposed to vote. People argue with me that if I don't vote, I don't get an opinion... but they are morons. If you vote for hwat you believe to be the lesser of two evils, you still voted for evil powers in office. If I decide I don't like any of them, why should I vote?

You're voting for Obama because you think he has the best chance of winning and you want to be a winner come election day? It's not craps... it's a damn presidential election... seriously... wtf...

I would rather be an educated non-voting citizen than a random jackass in a voting booth selecting random boxes based on what they recognize from social media exposure. I do not understand the mentality of "my vote won't count against the guy who is probably going to win, so rather than vote against him, I should vote for him and cancel out my vote as well as a second vote that would have been against him if I had a)voted for someone else or b) not voted.

That's ****ed up man... you're screwing someone else out of a legitimate vote for a candidate they truly back by throwing in your hat with whoever you think is the sure thing, even if you don't back them... if they are such a sure thing, they don't need your vote, so use it wisely...

[massacremasses]

Ok so what Im reading is that everyone who is voting Obama is just doing it because he is better than the alternative. I guess I can understand that. But still I refuse to vote for either Obama or Romney because of their affronts to civil liberties. Im appalled that so many are quick to just say, "meh he is better than the other guy" and just vote on party lines... To each their own. But if thats really the reasoning there is no arguing it as there is nothing to argue.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

I want to pummel idiots like you. That isn't how you're supposed to vote. People argue with me that if I don't vote, I don't get an opinion... but they are morons. If you vote for hwat you believe to be the lesser of two evils, you still voted for evil powers in office. If I decide I don't like any of them, why should I vote?

You're voting for Obama because you think he has the best chance of winning and you want to be a winner come election day? It's not craps... it's a damn presidential election... seriously... wtf...

I would rather be an educated non-voting citizen than a random jackass in a voting booth selecting random boxes based on what they recognize from social media exposure. I do not understand the mentality of "my vote won't count against the guy who is probably going to win, so rather than vote against him, I should vote for him and cancel out my vote as well as a second vote that would have been against him if I had a)voted for someone else or b) not voted.

That's ****ed up man... you're screwing someone else out of a legitimate vote for a candidate they truly back by throwing in your hat with whoever you think is the sure thing, even if you don't back them... if they are such a sure thing, they don't need your vote, so use it wisely...

haha while I was trying to avoid name calling, im going to agree with the basis of your argument about voting for the "least if the two evils" is the wrong way to approach an election. But I think "A" is so apathetic he doesnt care anymore.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

I want to pummel idiots like you.

/week

TOS 1.4, 2.1

["A"]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

I want to pummel idiots like you. That isn't how you're supposed to vote. People argue with me that if I don't vote, I don't get an opinion... but they are morons. If you vote for hwat you believe to be the lesser of two evils, you still voted for evil powers in office. If I decide I don't like any of them, why should I vote?

You're voting for Obama because you think he has the best chance of winning and you want to be a winner come election day? It's not craps... it's a damn presidential election... seriously... wtf...

I would rather be an educated non-voting citizen than a random jackass in a voting booth selecting random boxes based on what they recognize from social media exposure. I do not understand the mentality of "my vote won't count against the guy who is probably going to win, so rather than vote against him, I should vote for him and cancel out my vote as well as a second vote that would have been against him if I had a)voted for someone else or b) not voted.

That's ****ed up man... you're screwing someone else out of a legitimate vote for a candidate they truly back by throwing in your hat with whoever you think is the sure thing, even if you don't back them... if they are such a sure thing, they don't need your vote, so use it wisely...

It's a free country, do whatever you want and I wll do whatever I want.. but don't think for a moment you are qualified to judge anyone on this forum with your tone.
I've served this country with four tours overseas, you want to pummel idiots like me, I'd like to give you the chance to try that in person.

Originally Posted by massacremasses

haha while I was trying to avoid name calling, im going to agree with the basis of your argument about voting for the "least if the two evils" is the wrong way to approach an election. But I think "A" is so apathetic he doesnt care anymore.

Whether my approach to election suits you or not, it's my election to vote in.. you want to get me to change my vote, you're doing it wrong.

[massacremasses]

well now he cant respond. Thats no fun, but seriously I didnt want to start a huge name calling fest, which apparently is inevitable I just wanted to understand the logic. Honestly I want to see reasons why people are backing him. Like give me a bunch of bullet points or something. The "he is better than the other guy" argument kind of sucks. Does no one really believe in him like they used to? I couldnt get people to shut up about him 4 years ago and all the things he was going to do...

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

Link to original page on YouTube.

For the rest of the series.

http://blog.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/

I'm not going to talk about the economy much because of tribalism. If you cant overcome that, you wont understand nor care what I say.

interesting but remember we have the electoral college which makes it a little different...

Originally Posted by "A"

Whether my approach to election suits you or not, it's my election to vote in.. you want to get me to change my vote, you're doing it wrong.

Im not trying to get you to do anything, just trying to understand your reasoning. I was actually extremely surprised at your response. I would have totally guessed you were a Paul guy from your sig, and some of the videos you have linked. Which goes into why I dont think Paul can or will win, but thats for another time, and everyone will just think I am a loony conspiracy theorist.

Also I used to think that way to, but its because of those who think that way that we get people we dont like. I dont believe in compromising my beliefs to vote that way. To each their own, but I had to agree with the mean guy, that, thats a ****** way of voting. There should be enough people that dislike Obama and Romney, that you would think Paul would have a chance.... But I could just be delusional


*edit
I realize I contradict myself a little. I mean I would love to be proved wrong and not see a rigged election.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

interesting but remember we have the electoral college which makes it a little different...

Funny, you should mention that!

Link to original page on YouTube.

Original can be found here
http://blog.cgpgrey.com/the-electoral-college/

I dont know how accurate his last calculation is but it's interesting to consider. Should we use popular vote? Probably but you still run into the problem of the two party end game. The voting system has to be reformed but that would probably never happen.

[ninja_sleeper]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

Link to original page on YouTube.

That was entertaining... ^_^

Originally Posted by "A"

What is/are the alternative to Obama?
that's why I'm voting for Obama.

If Ron Paul even stands a chance to be nominated.. I'd go for him, but that's not likely to happen.

I think that the mindset that "oh I would vote for RP but that's not going to happen" is negative manifestation. Perceive negative results and they are more likely to happen (or NOT happen). It also validates the things in the "animal kingdom" post. That we give in to loss and compromise.

Originally Posted by adouglas

I like Ron Paul's ideas (some of 'em, anyway), but they're just fantasy. He'd never get the chance to enact them. They're even less realistic than the radical concept of real bipartisanship and a Congress that is in any way interested in actually getting anything done.

What ever happened to the spirit revolution.

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

Funny, you should mention that!

Link to original page on YouTube.

lol zing.

[drac]

You like Ron Pauls stance on things but you aren't voting for him because he can't win.......Is that correct?

Do you think RP ever thought he had a chance at winning? Of course he didn't. He wants to give people an opportunity to vote for a third party candidate. If everyone who like RP's idea actually voted for him he might get 8%. But thats okay. Because next election cycle a candidate like him would get 12% of the votes. In 2020 they may then get 21%..........You see where this is going??? In 20 years we could have the possibility of having a third party break the stranglehold of the two party system we currently deal with.

Voting for Obama or Romney is a vote to support either the Dems. or Repubs. Think about that.

[Heed]

I didn't vote. I expect Obama to win.


Everyone's locked in on Romney being the inevitable nominee, which is understandable, because from what I've watched on the news, if Gingrich gets mentioned at all, it's that he's dead and nobody even peeps about Ron Paul.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by drac

You like Ron Pauls stance on things but you aren't voting for him because he can't win.......Is that correct?

Do you think RP ever thought he had a chance at winning? Of course he didn't. He wants to give people an opportunity to vote for a third party candidate. If everyone who like RP's idea actually voted for him he might get 8%. But thats okay. Because next election cycle a candidate like him would get 12% of the votes. In 2020 they may then get 21%..........You see where this is going??? In 20 years we could have the possibility of having a third party break the stranglehold of the two party system we currently deal with.

Voting for Obama or Romney is a vote to support either the Dems. or Repubs. Think about that.

I would hope that would be the case. I like Rand Paul too, and I think he would be a good candidate as well.

[Jono]

I probably won't even vote. I dislike all the choices.


America is doomed!


Learn Chinese, now!

[massacremasses]

SCROOOOOOMED.

If you listen to Armstrong and Getty youd know what I was talking about... but they are only norcal local.... sooo yeah. lol Sac, and the Bay Area get em.

[Heed]

Originally Posted by Jono

Learn Chinese, now!

This.

Russian wouldn't be bad either.

["A"]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

SCROOOOOOMED.

If you listen to Armstrong and Getty youd know what I was talking about... but they are only norcal local.... sooo yeah. lol Sac, and the Bay Area get em.

What exactly are they talking about? are they good representatives of this nation as a whole or just nocal/bay area?

[greg737]

Nothing you guys are arguing about makes any difference at all because politics (the game) goes on and will always fail the first rule of correction: don't hire the same people who created the mess to clean it up.

And by "the same people" I mean people who, although they are different looking or sounding, are very similarly motivated/controlled. Same sh!t, different day. But hope springs eternal in the human being, so get out there and vote!

(Not buying ammo, don't even own a gun. I plan on being one of the first placed against the wall when the revolution comes.)

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by "A"

What exactly are they talking about? are they good representatives of this nation as a whole or just nocal/bay area?

they are just talking heads on the radio. They are really funny. They talk a lot about politics, but current events too. But they put a funny spin on everything. They do talk about local stuff as well though.

["A"]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

they are just talking heads on the radio. They are really funny. They talk a lot about politics, but current events too. But they put a funny spin on everything. They do talk about local stuff as well though.

Sounds like they just might be "puppets' for someone else.. who are the sponsors to their radio show?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by "A"

Sounds like they just might be "puppets' for someone else.. who are the sponsors to their radio show?

they totally are. How did you guess? They are puppets of sleep train mattress center and their evil agenda.

[checho323]

One word. Illuminati.....,.

[TylersEM2]

This is why I won't vote for RP

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...a-campaign.php

Separation of Church and State is something that I think is very important. Mixing the two is one of the worst ideas ever.