Is the ninja 250r the ultimate beginner bike, or should I settle for something else?

[Mulholland]

I have been obsessed with the 250r ever since they redesigned them, and really want to get into motorcycling, and start commuting on a bike. I live in Texas so I should be able to ride pretty well year round if I want to.

In the grassroots racing world "the answer is always miata" is a pretty common saying, meaning that when it comes down to it, for auto-x, cheap race car builds etc. etc., odds are a miata is going to be the purest, most raw, exhillerating platforms you can get your hands on. that's pretty well how I view the ninja 250r.... with the exception being the prices on 250r's are ludacris in my area.

Dealers literally laugh in your face if you think you're walking off their showroom floor with a 250r for less than $5500+... but then offer to get you out the door for next to nothing as a beginner on a 600 supersport... retards.

Also I am absolutely in love witht he 2011 white SE, love at first site, gotta have it, want it so bad. But even so, at used prices, I can get a terrific array of other suitable bikes for less than the 250r it would seems, such as a 650r, a very similar bike to the 250r some might say, or a complete monster for beginners according to others. Also the hyosung gt250r/gt650r and of course the new honda cbr250r are all options. The hyosung is attractive in ways and not in others... the cbr250r I have practically zero interest in. I have sat on them all and was comfortable witht he ergo's on all, but the honda felt very small, even compared to the 250r. I'm between 5'11 and 6'2 (about 6'0) depending on which gas station I'm leaving, and weigh in at 180ish. My friend said I looked huge on the ninja 250r, but I felt fine on it and told him he was just feeling small in the pants.

I love the 650r... I could very easily see myself ending up with one in a year or two... but I don't want to miss a stepping stone in the 250r, and odds are I would still want to keep the 250r around even if I got a new bike in a year or two. The 250r really is what I want... but how do you justify paying just as much for a 250r as a 650r both used/equal condition? It's a supersize combo for free... how do you turn it down? Is the 250r really that much more beginner friendly and suitable than the 650r? The 650r really just seems like a plus sized 250r with some balls on it... how much more unwieldy is it to manuever? Other than the obvious abilities to accelerate more rapidly, and achieve a higher terminal velocity by 30mph or so, and the associated need to know your braking distances and judge manuevers accordingly, what is different on the 650r?

I'm fairly young at 24, and don't have unlimited expendable income, and will probably not be able to buy a second bike for another year or two... probably going to have to let the wifey trade in her 08 corolla and buy her an '11/'12 kia forte in order to sneak the bike purchase in honestly... which brings me to my final 2 questions: Riding 2 up on the 250r - once I have been riding it for months (thousands of miels down the road to get acquanted and comfortable with it) am I going to be able to ride 2up without it being horrible for her? Looking more for passenger experiences her than rider. I have seen a lot of riders comment, and doubt sincerely I'd have any issue with it, but if it's awful to ride on the back of, she won't want to enjoy it with me, which leaves me without my best friend to enjoy it with as a hobby when not commuting, which will take away from the experience.

And lastly on a further not from the above, I live in Texas, I have massive lengths of huge straight highways and tollroads everywhere that speeds hover between 75-80mph cruising with slowlane traffic basically... I've seen a lot of videos on the top speed and passing power of the 250r, but seriously... are highway winds and 80mph cruising cagers going to kill me if I try and commute it on the highways here? I don't want to be riding the arterial roads through town for the next 5-6 months only to realize once I try and commute to work and cut my commute down from 45min back to 20min of tollroad like in my car, that it's just too dangerous and I'm in the way of traffic around me. I know the 250r will do 100mph-ish, and I know the 650r will knock on the door of 130mph almost, and I don't plan on going that fast in traffic on either, but having power to move away from the millions of ricers around here who will drive up your ass if you're on a bike or in a car that they think would be fun to race... it would be good to have some oomph under my wrist to quirt away from danger. I'm a bit worried the racey look of the 250r is going to get me mauled by civics and stuff... anyone share their experiences here? Not really worried about around town, but highway, the attention makes me worry. Cagers drive full retard on the highways here, especially the tollroads because they think they own them.

Thanks for answers, opinions, suggestions/recommendations in advance. I have lots of questions I know... been spending the last year+ trying to make up my mind. I just want something new to enjoy that works with my previous experience and know-how, I love cars and racing karts and I make my living slinging wrenches for the past 5+ years, limited experience with motorcycles beyond occasional dirt biking and flying around parkinglots at car events on pocket bikes when people have them. I'm not into stunting, I don't think wheelies are cool or impressive on a bike (I can do one on a Huffy...) like they are in a car (no production cars wheelie.) I don't care for drag racing really either... and I would have to find local 250 riders to ride with because all of the riders I know rock supersports or harleys and think I'm a retard for only wanting to ride 250r/650r... while I think they are retards because they act like idiots ont heir bikes and most of them are scared shitless of their uncomfortable bikes and do not enjoy them at all beyond showing up at a bar in their jacket and helmet and parking it on the curb out front to show off. Elsewise it's old guys who cruise on harleys or suzuki's, which is good and well I suppose, but they are heavy and obnoxious (the bikes... and most of the guys actually) and not for me.

I want something I can and will ride the HELL out of, pretty much all the time.

[Jiggles]

I think I'm the perfect person to answer all of your questions, I have both bikes. Now I have the new 2012 650 not the older 650r. They changed a buncha stuff on it but the engine is the same. And honestly learning to ride on that kind of engine could prove difficult. It has a ton of power, more than you will ever use, extremely fast throttle response and its pretty jerky in the low speeds. It engine breaks hard. If you are trying to maneuver in 1st and 2nd and you cut throttle, you get thrown into the gas tank. Combine a more difficult to handle bike with new rider experience and it's not always a great mix. I really would recommend getting a 250 first, but considering the pricing, if you really feel you could handle the extra difficulty that the 650 would offer it would be a good option.

You've just got to think, when you have an "OH ****" moment when a car pulls out or moves into your lane or w/e, do you feel confident you won't grab a handful of throttle? You can wheelie in first gear, and like I said this bike has a ton of power. It can easily keep up with a 600 up to about 60mph. When you **** your pants, your hands do unpredictable things. Physically riding the 650 (other than in the low gears) won't be much more difficult than the 250. It's more about you being unexperienced and making mistakes, the 250 is going to soften those mistakes, the 650 will amplify them

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I think I'm the perfect person to answer all of your questions, I have both bikes. Now I have the new 2012 650 not the older 650r. They changed a buncha stuff on it but the engine is the same. And honestly learning to ride on that kind of engine could prove difficult. It has a ton of power, more than you will ever use, extremely fast throttle response and its pretty jerky in the low speeds. It engine breaks hard. If you are trying to maneuver in 1st and 2nd and you cut throttle, you get thrown into the gas tank. Combine a more difficult to handle bike with new rider experience and it's not always a great mix. I really would recommend getting a 250 first, but considering the pricing, if you really feel you could handle the extra difficulty that the 650 would offer it would be a good option.

You've just got to think, when you have an "OH ****" moment when a car pulls out or moves into your lane or w/e, do you feel confident you won't grab a handful of throttle? You can wheelie in first gear, and like I said this bike has a ton of power. It can easily keep up with a 600 up to about 60mph. When you **** your pants, your hands do unpredictable things. Physically riding the 650 (other than in the low gears) won't be much more difficult than the 250. It's more about you being unexperienced and making mistakes, the 250 is going to soften those mistakes, the 650 will amplify them

I'm all too familiar with shitting your pants and grabbing a massive handful of throttle to speed up the hurt train from my offroad adventures That's the only part of the 650 that concerns me, as otherwise it seems like about the same bike as the 250r, the 650r/sv650f are the most powerful bikes I would even think of considering... and I much prefer the idea of the wimpy 250r to rip around on winding out gears constantly to it's screaming 12k+ redline, without ever getting speeds up that high, and be able to pin the throttle all the time and enjoy going slow. But the cost of the 250r vs. the mentioned alternatives is VERY unattractive. It's like choosing a new honda civic over a new m3, for the same cost, if the m3 also got almost the same economy as the civic, and insurance was marginally higher (I thought the lower insurance on the 250r would be worthwhile til I called statefarm and they pretty much said a sport bike is a sport bike and they are raising my penis tax if I ride one, no matter how tiny the engine is...

[Jiggles]

It sounds like a 250 is the perfect bike for you. Bite the bullet and pay more than you wanted to. My 250 new cost $5100 OTD and that was on the $4000 MSRP price. The dealers don't have a lot of profit in the 250 so they add on lots of fees. They make more on 600s which is why they can give you a better deal on it.

Call dealers up and pit them against eachother (well he has it for $XXXX), ask for free **** like frame sliders and gear

[TnNinjaGirl]

You need a 250.

It's funny you say M3 vs Civic... I have an M3 and an Accord. I would say the Ninja 250 is more M3 like. Maneuverable, sporty, fun. I think the 650 is just like a Honda, a really, really good toaster.

[iBang]

There's a difference actually in what you have asked and your thread title.

Is the ninjette the ultimate beginners sport bike? Yes... on average. It is a great little bike that handles well, is easy to deal with and will not get you in trouble easily. That means that overall it is the "best" for the average of the market which includes plenty of people without a lot of skill or restraint. My MSF course was proof enough of how dangerous a lot of people would be if let loose with a shiny new M permit and a big engine sport bike.

Now, all of that said, among my close friends who ride sport bikes and myself, starting bikes have been a CBR600, R6, R1, and CBR929. Of all of us, only one has laid down his bike and that was not power related (too much front brake into a tight corner, riding outside his comfort level early on).

Does this mean that there's no purpose to the 250 class? No, not at all. Of that group all four of us had varying levels of experience with quads and dirt bikes with plenty of power and manual transmissions. At the risk of sounding overconfident, none of us were ever as hopeless as some of the other people in my MSF course either.

I guess the end answer to your question is that it depends a lot on you. If you have good self restraint and perhaps have some experience that will help, a larger bike like the 650 might not be a bad idea.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It sounds like a 250 is the perfect bike for you. Bite the bullet and pay more than you wanted to. My 250 new cost $5100 OTD and that was on the $4000 MSRP price. The dealers don't have a lot of profit in the 250 so they add on lots of fees. They make more on 600s which is why they can give you a better deal on it.

Call dealers up and pit them against eachother (well he has it for $XXXX), ask for free **** like frame sliders and gear

Yeah... or settle for one that's not my white 2011 SE... but seriously... it just looks so damn good. I would be happy for the next 10 years to have that in my stable next to my cars. It makes me so happy in the pants. I'm happier to pay a premium for the white SE than I am to pay a premium for the 650 over a 250 lol. If we had the white 650 I have seen overseas though... I don't think I'd be able to help myself. It's funny too, because when it comes to cars, if the 250r was a car, I'd probably have to have it in blue. And I don't hate the cotton candy blue metallic or w/e, but... it doesn't hit the nail on the head either. I could rock it in white, green, black, blue, or red... but sure the white sends me from 6 to midnight the fastest.

[Jono]

The 250 is for you!!!!


And remember, you can always paint it white. So find a nice bike with the cheapest price and don't worry about the color. Just paint it yourself or have someone paint it.

When I was looking for a Ninja 250 I told myself I was going to get a Blue 08 250. But guess what, I ended up with a red 06. Haha. I really wasn't a fan of the pregen look but when I saw it in person I kinda just had to have it. They look much better in person. But anywho, my point is, don't limit yourself to finding a white SE. They are all fun to ride regardless of color!

I mean you will probably drop or crash this bike so just keep that in mind.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

I want something I can and will ride the HELL out of, pretty much all the time.

The ninja is one of the few bikes you can push hard a lot of the time without wiping yourself out.

Hyodung are widely known with that nickname for a reason, they are sh!t, they break down regularly, rust badly, and make you a great mechanic (or make your mechanic a rich man)

[Mulholland]

I just don't want to get the 250r and realize that my wife will never be able to enjoy it with me unless I buy her one to ride as well (unlikely, as she doesn't enjoy spirited driving like I do) and that I am too uncomfortable with the speeds of traffic around me locally to ever ride it long distances. I am in no way exaggerating when I claim that 75/80mph is slow lane speed.

You will literally get your doors blown off by minivans if you are driving at 70mph or less. Luckily with the higher rates of speed generally accepted, that means less random assholes flying 25+mph above the flow of traffic, few people speed too much beyond that natural flow of 75-80mph, but the ones who do are all that much more reckless generally. I suppose the other upside is that the toll roads where traffic is fastest, it is also lightest, and there are more lanes and they are huge, and the toll roads are walled from most cross wind I suppose as well... but when you get the retards flying up on you (especially when you are driving something sporty/riding anything sporty looking), they want to fly up on your ass and push you down the road faster to "play" with them. You don't want to get over, because you never know if they are going to try and fly by you at the last minute, and brake checking people is retarded in a car much less a bike, the best option is just to ease up in speed and get to a safe position to drop back behind them. Not being able to move with someone bearing down on my hard like that would worry me a bit. I generally pay enough attention to not let it happen, but of all the places I pay attention, when I'm moving faster than a lot of traffic around me, behind me is geenrally the last place I am frequently scanning, if I had an area where I could improve in paying attention to traffic, it's there. I generally keep a higher pace and focus primarily on road conditions around me and ahead, but when traffic is cruising at 75-80mph even, and say, like last week, a VW toureg comes blasting up flat out trying to peg his speedo and act like a reckless bastard and weave between cars needlessly rather than fly up the open left lane, because diving between cars in a slalom while listening to speed metal is the only way he achieves arousal apparently... it's amazing how quickly something like that can pop up from nowhere...

[Mulholland]

Anyone with experience as a passenger on a 250r, or general feedback on 2up riding, and/or general feedback on high speed interstate/toll road commuting that can shed light on the topic for me? I really want a bike that can be my daily commuter more or less, and can be used 2up for short trips to/from friends places or the bar for karoake with the Mrs. I really want the 250r to be the perfect bike for everything I want, and if it is, I'll ignore the 650r costing the same and get the 250r... but if it's just not the ideal bike based on my needs, and the 650r is entirely manageable for someone with self control who is used to high power vehicles, I don't see the danger level being absurd on the 650r either. It's really more about getting the best bike for my wants/needs... on the up side, I won't have to sell the 250r at much of a loss if it's not the right bike for me... on the down side, I'll love it so much I probably won't be able to part ways with it... I'm pretty sure it's the right bike, just want details on the 2up riding and the high speed commuting capabilities before I can commit with the 650r being so similar in performance and price, minus the throttle tube commanding a lot mroe respect pretty much...

[Jiggles]

2up riding on the 250 is ok, its a lot nicer on the 650 but thats to be expected

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

2up riding on the 250 is ok, its a lot nicer on the 650 but thats to be expected

I'd say I'll just convince her to get one as well, but she's a petit little bombshell and doesn't enjoy driving spirited so much... I dare say the 250r would be too much for her to handle. A cbr250r might fit her alright if I got her interested. Getting her to grab enough throttle to move on a 250r might be tricky lol, she's a very light footed driver

[Alex]

The 250 can do what you ask for years and years without breaking or being uncomfortable. But if you really are riding two-up at 80 mph, the bike is pretty much tapped out in terms of acceleration, and getting it from there to 85 or 90 mph will take a long time (think very slow economy car type acceleration). There is no such thing as quick bursts of speed when you're already at high speed with these bikes. 26 hp is 26 no matter how you swing it, so bike + rider + passenger is about 600 pounds, for a power to weight ratio of 23 pounds per hp, on a vehicle that really isn't that aerodynamic.

No bike you purchase will be so perfect that it's the last one you buy in this lifetime. The advantages of the 250 are pretty broad, and one of them is the value it holds when selling it, so the risk of losing any significant cash even if you do change your mind in 6 months to a year is low.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

I'd say I'll just convince her to get one as well, but she's a petit little bombshell and doesn't enjoy driving spirited so much... I dare say the 250r would be too much for her to handle. A cbr250r might fit her alright if I got her interested. Getting her to grab enough throttle to move on a 250r might be tricky lol, she's a very light footed driver

My opinion, I'd get a few years under your belt prior to going two up. I have never carried a passenger but I know I would have been very apprehensive doing that my first year or so of riding. I made enough mistakes riding solo while I was learning that would have freaked out a passenger.

Don't underestimate your little lady, she might like riding and become a better rider than you, 250R or CBR250.

There are plenty of very, very good lady riders/racers here. Exhibit A: Lisa pictured below or exhibit B: All of the riders here.

[massacremasses]

you can cruise 80-90ish Freeway. I was doing it the other day... but thats about all you got.

[Mulholland]

It wasn't a sexist comment or opening for anyone to jump up on their feminist soap box... it was an "I know my wife and she barely pushes the gas pedal in her corolla hard enough to get the POS to downshift when she wants to overtake on the highway, and gets stuck on hills in an autotragic car because she's afraid to push the gas harder or something"

Also, again, I live in Texas and this isn't meant to be a weekend toy. If I ride it half as much as I would like to, I will have more riding time on it than most yankee's would in 3-4 seasons. I wouldn't let her hop on the back if I wasn't comfortable, or without the proper gear, and I'm not dropping $500+ on riding gear for her until I'm ready to have her riding with me. I appreciate the advice but try to keep it general and not assume things... I'm sure you know that saying about assuming stuff.... even if you had simply read what I stated about my wife, and about myself, I also explicitly stated I wouldn't be riding it on the expressways and would be running arterial roads for the first 6months or so and certainly wouldn't think about going 2up on it before then either. So all in all, it was rather rude and unneccesary advice that seemed rather condescending and seemed to acuse me of being a sexist pig who thinks women are incapable of riding a motorcycle... and I personally think anyone so defensive has more insecurities than anyone who actually IS a sexist and thinks that could ever degrade womens rights/empowerment/whatever in the riding world. I could care less what women do, or anyone else for that matter... it's a thread about me, and my wife, and like I said, I would love to get her riding, but I doubt she would ride solo. She won't even learn to drive stick in any of my cars, and she can barely ride a bicycle. Unless she fell head over heals in love with it, if I as a beginner should be on a 250r... with years of racing, car control clinics, competitive driving events, etc. at 6'0 185lbs, all 110lbs soaking wet of her 5'4" or so frame that can't ride a bicycle or drive stick, would probably find a 250r she can barely sit comfortably on (I made her sit on them with me at dealers) insanely difficult to pick up. I would never opress her by making her try something that dangerous that she doesn't want to do or wouldn't enjoy. I'll be lucky if she feels like riding 2up ever.

[Reddoak]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I think I'm the perfect person to answer all of your questions, I have both bikes. Now I have the new 2012 650 not the older 650r. They changed a buncha stuff on it but the engine is the same. And honestly learning to ride on that kind of engine could prove difficult. It has a ton of power, more than you will ever use, extremely fast throttle response and its pretty jerky in the low speeds. It engine breaks hard. If you are trying to maneuver in 1st and 2nd and you cut throttle, you get thrown into the gas tank. Combine a more difficult to handle bike with new rider experience and it's not always a great mix. I really would recommend getting a 250 first, but considering the pricing, if you really feel you could handle the extra difficulty that the 650 would offer it would be a good option.

You've just got to think, when you have an "OH ****" moment when a car pulls out or moves into your lane or w/e, do you feel confident you won't grab a handful of throttle? You can wheelie in first gear, and like I said this bike has a ton of power. It can easily keep up with a 600 up to about 60mph. When you **** your pants, your hands do unpredictable things. Physically riding the 650 (other than in the low gears) won't be much more difficult than the 250. It's more about you being unexperienced and making mistakes, the 250 is going to soften those mistakes, the 650 will amplify them

Are the drugs wearing off? That was coherent, well organized, factual (with a good heaping of informed opinion) and correct.

OP, You seem to want a 250. A 250 is a terrific starter bike. Actually, the Ninja 250 is just a terrific bike. I rode about 10,000 miles on mine before I got a deal I couldn't pass up on for an ER-6n (a nude 650r, if you will.)

I rode plenty with my son on the 250, together with gear we put about 350 pounds on the bike. It would do it... but it wasn't great. Short trips? No sweat. But plan ahead when you pull out into traffic.

I have no doubts that spending a good chunk of time on a small displacement bike made me a more capable, safe rider. You learn every skill related to handling, braking, planning, and most of all good judgement riding a little bike. If you do get a 250r, and then later get a 650, then you can learn throttle modulation next... I put the front wheel up one of the first times my son and I rode the 650 2up. The 250 was a lot more forgiving... Oops. No harm done, 10,000 miles on a smaller bike trained me not to panic on two wheels.

If the price is a sticking point, wait it out for a used one. Likely as not, you could resell it in a few years and recoup a good chunk of your money.

[Whiskey]

An Er6 (Ninja650) or a SV650 may also be an idea if you want 2 up & a bit more go, but neither will be as forgiving (you can get away with doing some real dumb **** on the 250, the same mistakes would be punished far harder on a 650)

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Reddoak

Are the drugs wearing off? That was coherent, well organized, factual (with a good heaping of informed opinion) and correct.

I'm not incoherent on drugs, just unrestrained

[drvr5]

250 is a fantastic first bike, especially with commuting in mind. It is more than capable of going fast enough to get you arrested on almost any road in the states (2up is another story- you pick up a lot of drag with a trunk monkey, 75 is no sweat but above that it takes a looooong time), while getting better fuel mileage than any prius. It's 0-60 time is comparable to a GT mustang or Subaru WRX.

I was riding every day for about six months before I went 2up, and it was a very good choice. I did it once, and wasnt that comfortable with it so I waited a while and tried again, and am now fine with spirited riding (my passenger is awesome, so YMMV).

Would you be okay on another bike? Probably, because you're smart enough to be concerned about it and assess the situation. Would you have more fun on a different bike? Probably not. Coming from the car world as well, I can tell you that the miata leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of areas (compared to other cars that are also readily available). The ninja is all-around better as a bike than a miata is all-around good as a car.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

An Er6 (Ninja650) or a SV650 may also be an idea if you want 2 up & a bit more go, but neither will be as forgiving (you can get away with doing some real dumb **** on the 250, the same mistakes would be punished far harder on a 650)

Yeah those are essentially the 3 primary candidates I have looked at, the 250r, 650r, and sv650f. I don't care if I'm "going to drop it, and going to wreck it" ...I want fairings. It's my money, I want a bike I like the look and feel of... which is why I am not considering pre-facelift ninja's, ninja 500's, or suzuki gs500f's. I don't like the ergo's of the sv650f like I do the 650r, I fit well and feel at home on both the 250r and 650r. The cbr250r feels like half the bbike the 250r does when I'm on it for some reason... no matter what it looks like in pictures/in person or what video's and reviews say, it FEELS tiny by comparison somehow... much more narrow in the saddle perhaps? Not sure what all adds to it, just seems much more compact, the 250r is already about as compact a package as I would want between my legs (that's what she said...) and the 650r is as large/aggressive ergonomically as I would consider learning on, but the everyone makes it out to be such a monster, and I know how much fun I have driving slow stuff fast, and how little I enjoy my 400+rwhp 87 325 project car on the street, because driving so slow in something so powerful just feels crappy.

I think the ideal situation is just to get my 250r I want for me, ride the hell out of it, love it, learn from it, then after a season if the Mrs. is interested I will see how it fairs 2up and if she wants to ride along much or do any big trips with me instead of just quick short trips, I will add a 650r as more of a sport-tourer that I can still enjoy somewhat like the 250r and get rid of one of the extra cars to make room for it. That way I can have my cupcakes and eat them too.

[etiainen]

The Ninjette is quick, but not nearly as quick as the current WRX. Trust me I know, my good friend had one, and it smoked the Ninjette.

The CBR250 can get up and go at lower speeds and in the twisties. It has a decent amount of low to midrange torque. It just lacks what the Ninja 250 has in top end. 23 vs 26 hp essentially.

Between those, I'd have her sit on them and see which one she likes best. I prefer the seating on my CBR. I'm 5'9'' though. My friends prefer riding with me 2up on it.

It is narrower. It is a single though. It just fits me better than my Ninjette did, so I'm ok with it. I'm not sure it feels that narrow to me, but I guess that isn't something I really took into account while sitting on it the first time. I was more concerned with how cramped I felt, or rather, lack thereof.

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I think I'm the perfect person to answer all of your questions, I have both bikes. Now I have the new 2012 650 not the older 650r. They changed a buncha stuff on it but the engine is the same. And honestly learning to ride on that kind of engine could prove difficult. It has a ton of power, more than you will ever use, extremely fast throttle response and its pretty jerky in the low speeds. It engine breaks hard. If you are trying to maneuver in 1st and 2nd and you cut throttle, you get thrown into the gas tank. Combine a more difficult to handle bike with new rider experience and it's not always a great mix. I really would recommend getting a 250 first, but considering the pricing, if you really feel you could handle the extra difficulty that the 650 would offer it would be a good option.

You've just got to think, when you have an "OH ****" moment when a car pulls out or moves into your lane or w/e, do you feel confident you won't grab a handful of throttle? You can wheelie in first gear, and like I said this bike has a ton of power. It can easily keep up with a 600 up to about 60mph. When you **** your pants, your hands do unpredictable things. Physically riding the 650 (other than in the low gears) won't be much more difficult than the 250. It's more about you being unexperienced and making mistakes, the 250 is going to soften those mistakes, the 650 will amplify them

I bought the 2012 650 with ZERO experience. It was a bit tough at the very beginning for me because I had never ridden, so I stalled the bike alot during that first hour, but by the 2nd day I was already getting pretty comfortable and able to ride confidently on public roads. I've put ~500 miles on it so far and haven't had any difficulties since day one really, aside from learning how to properly 'blip' on downshifts to avoid that hard engine braking Jiggles mentioned.
I think it really depends on the person and how well you know yourself. I only got the 650 over the 250 because I was confident I would be able to handle it.. and I intended to use the freeways for commuting.. although now I find riding straight lines/constant speeds to be boring so I'll probably just take the longer way using backroads lol.

[Jiggles]

Have any oh **** moment yet Akshay?

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

the 650r is as large/aggressive ergonomically as I would consider learning on, but the everyone makes it out to be such a monster,

It is a pretty big bike.. and heavy at 460lbs which is more than the zx6r/10r.. but it's really not hard to learn on at all. Not sure how big you are but if you can touch both feet on the ground while your sitting on it then it shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Have any oh **** moment yet Akshay?

The only Oh **** moment I've had on the bike was in the first 10mins I had the bike, I was riding in culdesac with little throttle and I wanted to slow down so when I went to grab the front brake lever, as I pulled it in I also twisted my wrist and grabbed a bit of throttle lol.. but I had enough awareness to pull the clutch in so I didn't go into the neighbors lawn lol.

[Pudge Ate Me]

I learned how to ride on a Honda CBR 600 f4i.

I bought a Kawisaki Ninja 250.

I swapped bikes with my buddy (the guy with the cbr600) on a couple of our rides and I will have to say, if you are on a bunch of straight roads with no turn yes the 600 will be more fun but if thats all you are going to ride on a motorcycle is kinda pointless cause straight roads are boring on any vehicle.

When it comes to twisty roads such as the mountains with switch backs and what not this 250 runs like a champ.

I REGRET NOTHING!!! (doubt you will either, go buy it)

[Mulholland]

It doesn't make me feel particularly cramped... compared to the 250r, a tad, but still pretty roomy for being a small bike. It just feels miniscule compared to the 250r, which according to the salesman(boy?), and my friend who was with me, I look pretty big for the 250r too, but I had him take pictures to show me, not that I care what I look like on it per say, just curious. In a room surrounded by supersports and compared to the zx14 I sat on and laughed about, because it's rediculous, sure I look big on the 250r too... but it fit me in the waist. The saddle felt great, the tank felt good between my thighs, everything felt comfortable to reach and hold and use. The cbr250r on the other hand... it felt like my knees would be hanging in the wind a bit like riding a bike that was too small, and it felt unnaturally narrow in the saddle for my waist sort of... hard to describe, but if you've ever held a big jar of pickles or something between your legs/knees to pry a lid off with your hands... it reminded me of that... like I was forcing my legs closed on something that was closer than they wanted to be at the time. I think Kara could flat foot the more narrow cbr about with no dorp at all... though either would need lowering if she were ever to be comfy or confident on one of her own, but she says she will never want one, so it's all good.

If the 650r wasn't such a damn fine bike... I wouldn't have any decision to make. Even though I love the fuel injection of the cbr250r, it feels too small and I hate the instrumentation on it as well, and has a touch less top end which is where I like to drive anyhow, and as for the hyosung... fits me and size wise is like the 250r, and I like the gauges and fuel injection but dislike the offbrand cheapness, and again the lesser power. I laugh about the threads I come across while researching and people hate on the 250r and have never even done over 9k rpm...wtf? I have no problem ringing an engine out all day, people underestimate what most are capable of, and the 250r seems to have a very capable durable mill.

I am excited to play with the carbs anyways, it's old tech that has come a long way despite limited automotive use in the past 20+years, and something I have never owned or gotten to tinker with much, which is lame because I do make a living turning wrenches and have never had to touch a carb lol. I love simple mechanical devices like the carb, such elegant simple machinery/hardware vs. much more modern engineered solutions. I also love the established aftermarket for the 250r, because I love to mod and wrench on everything I own. If I had a golfcart, it'd be souped up lol.

[akshay11]

Oh and also a while ago I was taking off from a stop light, and when I went to shift from 1st to 2nd I accidentally went into neutral so the engine revved, and instinctively I went to press up on the shift lever and I'm not sure what exactly I did.. whether I forgot to pull the clutch in or what.. but as I pressed up on the shift lever I could feel the gear like banging or something.. felt the vibrations in my foot.. maybe gear grinding? But yeah I was freaked out for a sec but then everything went back to normal.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by akshay11

I bought the 2012 650 with ZERO experience. It was a bit tough at the very beginning for me because I had never ridden, so I stalled the bike alot during that first hour, but by the 2nd day I was already getting pretty comfortable and able to ride confidently on public roads. I've put ~500 miles on it so far and haven't had any difficulties since day one really, aside from learning how to properly 'blip' on downshifts to avoid that hard engine braking Jiggles mentioned.
I think it really depends on the person and how well you know yourself. I only got the 650 over the 250 because I was confident I would be able to handle it.. and I intended to use the freeways for commuting.. although now I find riding straight lines/constant speeds to be boring so I'll probably just take the longer way using backroads lol.

I have no doubt I could respect and quickly learn to handle the power the 650r has, however, I know I don't NEED that power, but I also know I will need mroe power than the 250r has if I ever want to do any sport-touring duty 2up with the Mrs. Me personally, by myself... I know the 250r will be all the bike I ever need, and if I ever want to hop on a supersport for the day or go rip the throttle wide open on a 'busa on a stretch of road, I have friends who have bikes for that... they would probably toss me the keys as it stands without a worry in the world. They are al (my riding friends) convinced I'm full retard for wanting a 250r, knowing my experience with cars, and my personality, and how I drive... but they don't get things like I do. They have fun cruising at legal speeds on their r1's and cbr1000's and crap... me... I don't see the point. That's like renting a Lambo for the day, and going to find school zones to cruise through... WTF... vs the 250r, which is like buying a miata, and having a laugh every time you leave a stoplight and wind out 2 gears fully then coast at legal speeds, or blast around a corner flat out in a low gear, etc. The 650r's power is just one more thing to worry about, and will teach a squid bad habits probably... I truly believe I will become a more advanced rider more quickly on the 250r than a 650r.


The last car I built ruined powerful street vehicles for me. Seriously, now I just mod for a bit extra oomph/aggressive intake and exhaust sounds and enjoy it as is. No more racecars for the street. Do you have any idea how quickly you can go from 0-arrest me- speeds with ~450whp/tq and 2400lb's of car to roll out? The only thing that kept the car fun was the 205/50/16 tires I rolled out on to enjoy it at mineral wells or other drift events and such where I could really open it up and just let loose. Nowadays I much rather enjoy my slow street cars that are just purely fun to drive, and the occassional Italian tune up on my father's miata when it needs repairs and I pick it up for the week and bring it over to my place Slow stuff is more fun. Besides... just because some CAN 0-60 quicker than something else doesn't mean it will. And even then... from a stoplight... you've legally got 0-40/45 and it's over. A slower toy is just getting to enjoy the periods of time you are accelerating, because the rest of the time all of the cars are just coasting anyways haha.

Akshay you kinda sound like the squids i know with supersports who think they are great starter bikes and that they ride "well enough" even thought hey didn't start on 250's... when even someone like my wife can see them riding and think they look uncomfortable, both physically and mentally, because they are scared of their bikes, and have learned to do little more than get on it, leave a stoplight, accelerate (probably half as briskly as their amazingly powerful bike could, because they are scared) and then come to a stop and do it again. I want to control the bike like I control cars and karts. I want people to go "damn, I can't believe how hard that crazy mofo rides that 250r, I guess we're lucky he didn't get the supersport like we thought he should, we wouldn't even be able to ride with him then." Building confidence and good habits is key to anything. You don't sound like you're building confidence very quickly, you sound nervous to me.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by akshay11

The only Oh **** moment I've had on the bike was in the first 10mins I had the bike, I was riding in culdesac with little throttle and I wanted to slow down so when I went to grab the front brake lever, as I pulled it in I also twisted my wrist and grabbed a bit of throttle lol.. but I had enough awareness to pull the clutch in so I didn't go into the neighbors lawn lol.

The type of moment I'm talking about is when a cage pulls out in front of you or tries to merge into your lane. You're going to get a massive adrenaline rush which clouds your judgement. You know how sometimes when something scares you, you'll twitch? That can be really bad with so much torque at your disposal. To give you an example, I was cruisin on the highway on my 250 when another supersport came screaming up behind me. I didn't hear him or see him until he was directly next to me (he lane split past me). His bike was so loud I literally jumped on the bike. My hand hit the throttle, and I didn't go anywhere cuz the 250 softened my mistake. On the 650 I would have had some massive acceleration that probably would have stacked on top of my initial reaction. It would have been easy to crash. Hit the throttle, swerve trying to control, run into a cage or the passing lane and lose traction.

That's what you need to be wary of, external factors, not internal ones. External factors are what will cause you to make mistakes because of a poor reaction, something that can only be tamed with experience.

Recently, I've hit a milestone where I stopped getting adrenaline rushes and was far more in control of my oh **** moments. Well, want to know what happened when I crashed on monday? It was such an Oh **** moment that I did get that adrenaline rush and didn't react properly (not that it would have mattered, collision was imminent which is probably why I freaked, I knew I didn't have an out) A few feet from the car I locked up the front brake, I also put my right leg down trying to stop (dunno about left leg, probably wouldn't have broken my left leg if I also put that one down, think my foot got stuck on the foot peg which caused the break on the gas tank). Clearly even with all the experience that I have, and I consider myself a very good rider, under the most intense situation, I still reacted poorly.

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The type of moment I'm talking about is when a cage pulls out in front of you or tries to merge into your lane.

Only had one of those so far. Have mainly been riding around state highways that aren't too crowded. But there was 1 time a while back where this asshole turned onto the highway from a side road.. and idk if he didn't see me or saw me but didnt care.. but he turned out right in front of me. Luckily the road was straight at the time so I could see there were no oncoming cars and was able to just swerve around him. I also don't cover the clutch/front brake with 2 fingers at all times anymore lol. More fun when my entire hand is wrapped around the throttle :P. And everyone was right, shifting is becoming second nature now as well

[Boom King]

I weigh about ~73 kilos (160 pounds?) or so with full gear. We have fast highways up here as well. On the 401, when it opens up to at least 4 or 5 lanes per direction, people will cruise at 120 km/h outside of rush hour. In the fast lane, it's 130 km/h +. We have a toll road here as well, the 407 with wide multiple lanes and smooth concrete. In the fast lane, people are going 140 km/h. The 250R can cruise all day on the highways here but obviously up to a certain speed, passing power is lacking. You really have to pick your spot and give yourself time. You need even more patience if you're going up grade or against the wind.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Boom King

The 250R can cruise all day on the highways here but obviously up to a certain speed, passing power is lacking. You really have to pick your spot and give yourself time. You need even more patience if you're going up grade or against the wind.

Straight up, and if you can't do that or think the 250 is incapable, well then, see my signature

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

Akshay you kinda sound like the squids i know with supersports who think they are great starter bikes and that they ride "well enough" even thought hey didn't start on 250's... when even someone like my wife can see them riding and think they look uncomfortable, both physically and mentally, because they are scared of their bikes, and have learned to do little more than get on it, leave a stoplight, accelerate (probably half as briskly as their amazingly powerful bike could, because they are scared) and then come to a stop and do it again. I want to control the bike like I control cars and karts. I want people to go "damn, I can't believe how hard that crazy mofo rides that 250r, I guess we're lucky he didn't get the supersport like we thought he should, we wouldn't even be able to ride with him then." Building confidence and good habits is key to anything. You don't sound like you're building confidence very quickly, you sound nervous to me.

Lol. Well I wasn't overconfident to the point where I started on a supersport. I bought the bike in March, but started doing research back in December. Up until February I was leaning more towards getting a 250r. Like I said, the main reason I got a 650 was because my daily commute involves using the freeway, and while the 250r can do fine on the freeway, the 650 won't have issues cruising at 80 for longer periods. I'll admit I was nervous at first.. hell even moving at 5mph just by letting out the clutch was nerve wracking. But after about the first 30 miles or so, it became really easy. Idk how I sound nervous to you, I've been out riding with other people now, usually side by side with a friend and some group rides, and don't have any troubles. No chicken strips either :P

Oh and also 1 of the friends I've been riding with rides a cbr600rr now, and he started on a 250. When I asked him about it he actually told me not to start on a 250.. Then again he also rides his bike pretty hard.. redlining before shifting and doing wheelies etc.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Straight up, and if you can't do that or think the 250 is incapable, well then, see my signature

Gotcha, 250r=speed demon deathmachine. I will go get a vespa now

Though the wife did point at a 800lb monster scooter at the local kawi/zookey dealership (some huge heffer of a suzuki scooter) and say that she wanted me to get that, and I was like Eff that, like I'm gonna wobble around parkinglots hold up that SOB while you sit all comfy on the back... psh. I want something to enjoy, not a chore hahaha, but maybe I could get her into a sporty scooter down the road since she's avid she would never drive a motorcycle, but always seems excited about scooters.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

Akshay you kinda sound like the squids i know with supersports who think they are great starter bikes and that they ride "well enough" even thought hey didn't start on 250's... when even someone like my wife can see them riding and think they look uncomfortable, both physically and mentally, because they are scared of their bikes, and have learned to do little more than get on it, leave a stoplight, accelerate (probably half as briskly as their amazingly powerful bike could, because they are scared) and then come to a stop and do it again. I want to control the bike like I control cars and karts. I want people to go "damn, I can't believe how hard that crazy mofo rides that 250r, I guess we're lucky he didn't get the supersport like we thought he should, we wouldn't even be able to ride with him then." Building confidence and good habits is key to anything. You don't sound like you're building confidence very quickly, you sound nervous to me.

Not everyone buys a bike so they can ride it to the limit. Yea the 250 is probably the only bike that you can ride to the limit on the streets. I ride my 250 crazy hard, and I ride my 650 at about the same speed. I don't think the 650 is a bad choice for a first bike, just that the 250 is a better choice

[Mulholland]

Like I said, and like I've told my friends who ride, and know my general racing/automotive background... could I handle the power of a 650? Yeah... I could probably putt around timidly and not murder myself on a busa if I had no car and needed something to get me from A-B and had no choice... Would I choose more bike than I need? No because even though I can, and do restrain myself on the street, as I said with the cars... slower cars are more fun because I can push their limits where as a track prepped car is boring as hell on the street.

I don't want to be bored on a faster/more powerful bike that I know I will want to ride hard... I want to ride my slow bike hard and fast and not have to worry so much about restraining myself. If there is anything I have learned from cars that I'm sure carries straight over... it's easier to do something slowly once you learn the control to do it fast. Like when I teach people to drive stick... I always teach them to do the motions quickly and crisply, and then work on slow and smooth from there. Going fast is often easier than going slow, and with a more powerful bike with grabbier brakes, a snappier throttle tube, etc. If you have never done it faster and been able to learn to do it slow and have the minute control over it, I'm sure it's a bear to learn on something jerky and twitchy that you're making buck and engine brake hard etc.

[Jiggles]

It's good that you know your limits. The thing I like about my 250 was that it limited me. I knew I would love having a larger bike but I never test rode one because I knew it would be addicting like crack. Well after I matured, I found that I didn't really ride the 650 faster than the 250. Didn't need to, the thrill of 250 speeds are enough for me. Should be a good option for you too once you master the 250

[MustangGuy]

Jiggles is 100% right about the new 650 compared to the 250. I recently went from a 2007 250 to the 2012 650. His observations are right on the money. This isn't to say that a new rider can't learn on a 650 - it's very possible - but in general a new rider will be SAFER starting on 250 (and I wouldn't consider any other 250 but a Ninjette!) Believe me, you will still have a lot of fun on it and it won't feel slow at all. You may want to look for a decent used 250 instead of paying premium for a brand new one. Best of luck with whatever you decide!