Greenaero's Ninja Hypermiling project

[FrugalNinja250]

Have you thought about installing a wide band O2 sensor so that you could do some documented tuning? It may be that you can tune it slightly lean, maybe 14.9:1 or 15:1, at the cruising RPM and output you spend a lot of time at.

[greenaero]

Hi FrugalNinja, Thanks for the suggestion, I may consider it for the future. I don't know that much about using O2 sensors other than engine management systems use them to inject the correct amout of fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel mixture. I'm pretty old school as far motorcycle tuning; observing and adjusting how the bike runs and checking sparkplug color.

[Skippii]

I think it took me about 5 minutes to grind the back of the cover. It isn't visible on the bike since it's the back of the cover, just in case you were interested in a 16T...since they are cheaper than the rear sprockets.
Posted via Mobile Device

[greenaero]

Skippi, thanks for the additional info on the 16T countershaft sprocket. I'll conside it for the next wave of modifications.

[greenaero]

I'll be riding to Carmel to visit with Craig Vetter and Alan Smith. I'll get to see the latest work they have done on the Ninja Streamlining Kit they are developing. It should be very interesting.

[choneofakind]

Post up some pictures. I wonder how it looks/performs in comparison to your homebrew kit on your bike

[greenaero]

Previously Alan has gotten 116 mpg with just the Vetter tail.

[choneofakind]

wow! That's impressive. I think you can beat him!

Seriously though, It might be worth it to do some dyno time, or invest in a wideband O2 sensor and display so you can run a touch lean in the areas that you most often run.

I've read through faq.ninja250.org, and they say that 102.5 main jets are an acceptable size for a stock bike, assuming that you aren't at sea level. The stock mains are rich, so going down a size might benefit you, both for fuel use, and it will get the mix closer to right, which means it might pull a little harder.

Then you can get the needles shimmed until they're just right, and for your economy purposes, take one washer off from where just right is. That should get you running right at the point where you're toeing the line of lean in both the midrange and top end. Might help a little with the mileage a little?

[greenaero]

I will definitely try but it would be tough. But at this point, he is the sensei and I am the student.

I rode the little Ninja to Carmel yesterday to visit Craig and Alan. They have finished with a fiberglass nose section for the Ninja streamliner kit and it is a work of art.
When I arrived in Carmel, we met for lunch and it was great to see all our streamlined bikes plus Craig's 2 sons' Alcan faired bikes in the parking lot.
I got to see the new nose, front framework , new windscreen, and the vinyl wrap that Craig is considering for future kits. We talked a lot about our favorite topic and took tons of pictures. It was a great day! The only down side was my fuel usage for the trip....74.54 mpg. I guess I enjoyed myself a bit too much. Pictures to follow.

[greenaero]

The Pix:
Vetter's Helix, my Ninja, Alan's Ninja



new Vetter NInja kit nose vs Alan's bike

Craig Vetter, me, Alan Smith

[greenaero]

Latest update: refueled today, mixed riding in cool to cold weather, 209.5 miles, 2.63 gallons to refill... 79.7 mpg . My 3 tank average is 83.3 mpg , OK but I want more!

Next steps; taller gearing and redo the tail section. My current tail is a bit small to hold the Vetter-mandated 4 bags of groceries so it's time to go all out before the May 4 Vetter Challenge in Carmel.

[greenaero]

I just finished skinning my new tail section today. I used coroplast panels on the sides and plasticized sign papers for the rounded top. The coroplast is very easy to work with and pretty rigid in line with the tubes. I built my framework with 3/8" and 1/4" plywood bulkheads, light wood and sheetrock edging stringers. The coroplast is very light and provides additional stiffness to tailsection. The more I use coroplast the better I like it. The coroplast doesn't bend that well and is much better for straight panels. The sign paper is weather resistant, bends easily and is great for the curved portions of the structure. I used 1"x 3/4" wood lathe for some of the stringers as it is light , rigid, easy to attach with glue and screws. I also used some bamboo for x-bracing and just hot-glued it into place.
I tested the new tail today and it works great. The only modification I'll need to do is add another attachment from the tail structure to the MC frame as it has tipped downward slightly. I'll run another tank and see how much improvement there is with the new tail.

[cerberusrex25]

This is a great project, good luck with achieving your goal MPGs. Is really interesting to see how the ninjette can adapt to all kinds of users and conditions, I look forward to see the finalized version of this and th great results.

[JeffM]

I love this kind of stuff. Subscribed.

[greenaero]

Dave and Jeff, Thanks for your support!! I do this stuff because I think its important, interesting and fun. To have the support and appreciation of other motorcyclists means a great deal to me and just motivates me to push harder toward my goals.

Dave, I'm a big fan of your project and wish you all the best as you work on it. The great thing about projects is the journey toward the goal and the struggles to achieve it along the way.

Jeff, My wife, dad and older brother are all cancer survivors. I appreciate your spirit . Please know we are pulling for you.

[FrugalNinja250]

Some food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback

You may be able to shorten the tail quite a bit without losing significant aerodynamic advantages.

Have you given any thought to using scale model wind tunnel testing?

[greenaero]

FrugalNinja, Thanks for the suggestion. Kammbacks are good for getting the majority of the aero drag reduction without excessively long boattails . However, for me I'm looking get the the absolute best out my project and the full boattail beats the Kammback. Even though you would think it's much worse riding it in crosswinds, it hasn't been the case. Also in the
Vetter Challenge rules you have to able to easily carry 4 full bags groceries so I just use the long tail's interior space to ensure I have this capability.

Access to a wind tunnel would be awesome but unfortunately there are very few and they are very expensive. Scale model testing presents it own challenges and is not as simple as it appears.

Vehicle aerodymanics are pretty well understood: the closer we can come to the ideal body shape ( a raindrop, rounded and wider in the front , coming to a gradual point at the end) the less air drag and enrgy needed to propel the vehicle. The rest is just dealing with the complicating issues: cost, weight, durability, ease of manufacturing, meeting legal requirements, comfort, safety, etc.

["A"]

I'd imagine a 1-piece nose cone that covers the headlight/front wheel/forks would offer more aerodynamic benefit than a large tail..

Have would thought about changing your riding position to more forward leaning? a secure tank bag that allow you to rest against while riding?

Reduce the overall height would make it more aero, too.

[greenaero]

A dustbin type fairing on the front would be an improvement. I'm not sure if offers more benefit than the long tail: most of my reading infers it doesn't. Nonetheless, I do plan to go this route in the future. For now it's harder to fabricate so I will get working on it after I complete the easier mods. I designed my streamlining around a comfortable position as I plan on doing lots of long rides. Getting good fuel economy by going slow and in a cramped position works but its not very practical for everyday use. The goal of the Vetter Challenge is to make motorcycles that can go 70mph into a 30mph headwind, carry 4 bags of groceries, be comfortable, and get over 100 mpg.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by greenaero

Dave and Jeff, Thanks for your support!! I do this stuff because I think its important, interesting and fun. To have the support and appreciation of other motorcyclists means a great deal to me and just motivates me to push harder toward my goals.

Dave, I'm a big fan of your project and wish you all the best as you work on it. The great thing about projects is the journey toward the goal and the struggles to achieve it along the way.

Jeff, My wife, dad and older brother are all cancer survivors. I appreciate your spirit . Please know we are pulling for you.

Thank you. Best Wishes to your wife, Father and Brother.

How cool was it to hang out with Vetter?

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by greenaero

FrugalNinja, Thanks for the suggestion. Kammbacks are good for getting the majority of the aero drag reduction without excessively long boattails . However, for me I'm looking get the the absolute best out my project and the full boattail beats the Kammback. Even though you would think it's much worse riding it in crosswinds, it hasn't been the case. Also in the
Vetter Challenge rules you have to able to easily carry 4 full bags groceries so I just use the long tail's interior space to ensure I have this capability.

Kamm tail aerodynamics are interesting. The theory is that the Kamm tail tricks the airflow into thinking that there is a large boattail behind the airfoil wide point.



Of course something like this would kill the ability to load the required bags of groceries. It is however, interesting to think about in relation to just aerodynamics and mileage.

Jeff

[choneofakind]

Is that speed-dependent? or is that true for all speeds?

I can't wait to take a fluids class. I think I'm required my junior year. If not, I might take it just for kicks. Looks really interesting.

[JeffM]

Chris, not sure about that. There are bicycle frame makers that are using the Kamm effect on frame tubes to make a stronger, lighter aero shape for time trial bikes. Speeds there are in the under 40mph range.

Jeff

[choneofakind]

Honestly, I wasn't really thinking supersponic, since I know that creates a whole new list of things to consider from my reading about airplanes...

I was more just thinking in terms of motorcycle speed vs commercial jet speed. But that's cool on bicycles too! TT bikes are neat

[greenaero]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Thank you. Best Wishes to your wife, Father and Brother.

How cool was it to hang out with Vetter?

Jeff, Thank you!
Before I met Craig Vetter, I was a big fan of his design work and his promoting better motorcycle fuel efficiency through his fuel economy competitions in the 80s and his new Vetter Challenges since 2010. For me, getting to meet him was like a Beatles fan meeting Paul McCartney. He is a brilliant, accomplished person but very friendly and generous with his time and knowledge. After meeting him and riding in my first Vetter Challenge last year he invited me and 2 other competitors to his shop and after talking and sharing experiences, I developed a close friendship with Craig and Alan Smith.

They are wonderful people to spend time with and I am blessed to have them as friends. They have inspired me to try to do my part in our shared crusade to promote and improve motorcycle fuel efficiency through making our respective streamliners and demonstrating their effectiveness. I try to support Craig's efforts by sharing information on various fuel economy and motorcycle forums. Gradually we are expanding our cadre of fuel economy advocates and lots of great work is being done. For those interested, check out Craig's webiste at www.craigvetter.com and the motorcycle section at www.ecomodder.com

[JeffM]

You are welcome Vic.

I emailed Craig Vetter about his 250 aero kit and he wrote back that evening. He will be posting new photos of Alan's bike with the completed nose section very soon.

I hope to catch Alan if he rides through Salt Lake in transit to Mid Ohio.

Hmmmm, you never know, I might join the aero crusade.

Jeff

P.S. I just joined eccomodder.

[greenaero]

Jeff. Excellent, if you need help with anything let me know.
all the best , GA

[JeffM]

Latest photo of the Vetter Ninja 250 aero kit on Alan's bike.

[greenaero]

Jeff, Wow! Hot off the press, thanks for sharing. I gotta meetup with Alan soon and check it out.

I took the Ninja for a good hard ride on Saturday on the local backroads to test the new tail and to test the accuracy of my odometer/tripmeter. The new tail worked great and seems to be very sturdy. My destination was a local motorcycle hangout ( the Livermore Junction ); the brothers and sisters there seemed to like the streamliner. I had some fun and found that my odometer under-reported distance traveled by 9.2 %.

Yesterday, I decided to go ahead and change to the smallest rear sprocket I had: GreenJoe's 33 tooth. I also lubed my swingarm and shock linkage, shimmed the cush drive and shortened my chain by 4 links. I rode the bike to Fremont on some errands and found that the taller gearing was manageable. It starts from a dead stop OK , accelerates at an acceptable pace and brings the rpms way down while cruising. Hills and headwinds now need quick downshifts to maintain speed and often need dropping down 2 gears at a time. We'll see how it goes.
I fueled up on the way home and got ..... 90 mpg !!!
I'm pleased with this and hope to keep the upward trend continuing.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by greenaero

Jeff, Wow! Hot off the press, thanks for sharing. I gotta meetup with Alan soon and check it out.

I thought you would post this first

The kit looks to be shaping up nicely. I like the tail section (it removes with just three fasteners) because it would allow an easy transition between a high mileage configuration or stock. You could have the best of both worlds - high mileage or trackday/canyon ready just by swapping tail sections, windscreens, and sprockets.

Ninja 250 - the Swiss Army Knife of bikes

Jeff

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by trixter

Why not just put a mast up and a few yards of sail? In wyoming you might be able to exceed 100mph on a regular basis.

For that you would need this :

[Domagoj]

This is very interesting topic indeed!
I've been checking it out and decided to try to contribute in some way. It may seem dumb but here are my ideas:

You guys work hard on streamlining, but leave the sides open. I bet closing those sides and forming a "full" teardrop would benefit greatly. Will Alan's bike have closed sides? That does mean installing some sort of... well, doors, and does complicate things quite a bit.

Have you considered removing the rear-view mirrors and adding some sort of rear view camera instead? Mirrors are not large but they are hard to shape nicely, and I figure every bit helps.

Then there is the idea many people have - reducing the cross section. You have almost 400 mm height above the full tuck position on the stock ninjette - that's a lot. I am convinced it's a good idea to look for some sort of comfortable solution to keep your head and torso lower. Keep the streamlining, but make it smaller in the cross section.

Finally, what @FrugalNinja250 mentioned: fuel-air mixture. I am sure you could get same results you have now with modified sprockets, with stock sprockets and clever fuel injection. And then maybe adding some sort of on board computer to keep your engine running in optimal rpms during cruising. I have no knowledge on this apart from theoretical, but there are plenty of people who play around with car/bike ecu-s. Maybe it's worth to look someone up.
The extreme of this line would be using some sort of continuous transmission like a scooter; keeping your engine in the most efficient rpm, and handling the rest with transmission. But this is a bit far flunged.

I forgot: You mentioned diesel bikes? Who makes those?

[greenaero]

Hi Domagoj, Good comments and questions. To answer your questions:

1. The sides are left open to prevent the bikes from being blown over in strong sidewinds by letting sidewind to pass through with less deflecting force on the streamliner. Fully enclosed bikes have less air drag but present more side area for potential dangerous steering deflection or a blowover. This happened to the Honda factory entry in one of the Vetter sponsored fuel economy competitions in the 80's. The only safe, fully enclosed motorcycles for the street are 3 wheelers.

2. We have reduced the size and improved the shape of our mirrors to minimize air drag. Cameras could reduce frontal area or deviations from the ideal shape but then you need a viewing screen mounted which increases cost, complication, ease of use and the the killer: legal requirements. In CA we must have at one mirror mounted on the left side of the bike.

3. Reducing the height is effective in reducing air drag. Craig Vetter and Alan Smith and others are working on plans for "feet forward "designs to lower rider height and reduce frontal area. Laying on the tank also lowers height but is not comfortable for extended riding and one of our goals as Vetter Challenge competitors is to design comfortable, practical motorcycles that get 100mpg, can go 70 mph into a 30 mph headwind and can carry 4 bags of groceries. I use the sit up position on my bike to increase the size of my tail section so that I can meet the 4 bags of groceries requirement.

4. Fuel injection and computerized engine management offer potential improvement but are expensive and complicated to add on. Chain drive/manual gerboxes are currently more efficient than CVTs. Money, time and ingenuity are the limiting factors. I'm still operating in the cheap, simple area.

5. Some of the diesel bikes were made by Fred Hayes of Hayes Diesel Technology, Inc. who converts motrcycles to diesel power for use by the USMC. They are not commercially available. A few others have mounted smaller diesel engines onto their MC chassis with impressive results. Fred Hayes has made a large investment with his diesel streamliner with 2 Vetter Challenge wins and 2 second place finishes.

My project was recently mentioned on the Vetter website , check it out :
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/201...liner-p56.html
CHeck out the latest chapter on Craig Vetter's webite

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by greenaero

My project was recently mentioned on the Vetter website , check it out :
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/201...liner-p56.html
CHeck out the latest chapter on Craig Vetter's webite

Nice write up Vic.

Are you going to be riding up to Mid Ohio with Alan?

[greenaero]

Thanks Jeff!
I might ride out with Alan depending on when he plans on leaving for Ohio. Craig Vetter is also planning on riding there this year rather than trailering his Helix streamliner. It would be great if we could all travel together but if it doesn't work out I'll do the ride this year barring the unforeseen.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Kamm tail aerodynamics are interesting. The theory is that the Kamm tail tricks the airflow into thinking that there is a large boattail behind the airfoil wide point.



Of course something like this would kill the ability to load the required bags of groceries. It is however, interesting to think about in relation to just aerodynamics and mileage.

Jeff

Trek used to use a Kamm. That tube shape on the right is all new and different from a classic airfoil with a Kamm truncation.

[sendler]

Here is the classic Kamm. Second from the right.

[greenaero]

Wow, the Trek Kamm looks as good as the long tail. Very interesting development.

[blink]

Isn't it uncomfortable with that big windshield?

[greenaero]

Blink, No, actually its quite comfortable; no wind buffeting on my chest, better weather protection, and less tiring on long rides. I can't lean forward much but then I don't need to and why would I want to? I can move side to side easily and lean to the inside of corners. With 100mpg+ and huge storage capability not much downside if those are important to you.