Engine Rebuild

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I'm rebuilding an engine that had overheating problems as well as a broken crankcase so I'm starting this thread to keep me motivated in finishing it in a timely manner. I started out by disassembling everything and wiping the oil off of everything the best I could.

Today I started taking a look at the clutch and found burrs on the outside perimeter of the clutch housing.

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Anyone know what that could have been from?

The bolt that held the chain tensioner lever did come out and was rubbing against the smaller gear on the clutch housing but that wasn't damaged.

@n4mwd

[n4mwd]

Those are grind marks from the factory. They are perpendicular to the angle of rotation. Mine have the same thing. I think its done for balancing purposes.

Can you post photos of your crank?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

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Is that what you wanted?

[n4mwd]

How about a close up of the crankshaft journal that has the bad bearing. And also one of that rods big end. Lets hope you were lucky and the crank is still OK.

[baxtc1]

Is it the light, or is that crank journal dark?
Good luck with the rebuild, hope you can keep interested and keep it going.
Mine has been in pieces for over a month now, not happy.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

N4mwd, I'll get the pics soon.

I'm a little bit confused right now as I am trying to measure my cam chain. The manual says measure 20 LINKS pin to pin but this puts the measurement waay high of the service limit (300mm+) compared to measuring 20 PINS which has the measurement at about 8mm shy of "standard" yet it doesn't match up with the picture in the service manual where the right side pin of the link is measured to that of another right side pin.....

The manual doesn't show the entire chain...

Standard is: 127mm - 127.4mm
My measurement is 125.92 @ 21 PINS (right side of link to right side of link).
~119mm @ 20 PINS.

Could someone just clarify how you measure this? It would seem I did it right by measuring the pins (excluding the 1st pin) vs. links as the manual states...... Make sense?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

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[Motofool]

For a new chain, the pitch of each link is 1/4" or 6.35 mm (distance between any two similar and consecutive parts of the chain).

For an old chain, 6.445 mm is the limit distance between two consecutive pins.

That is 64.45 mm for 10 links (11 pins), 96.67 mm for 15 links (16 pins) or 128.90 mm for 20 links (21 pins).

The measurement needs to me made with the chain under tension and on different sections.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

got it thanks! Any suggestions on how to create tension?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

got it thanks! Any suggestions on how to create tension?

You could hang 10 or 12 lb weight from an end.

Zero the caliper, then set it to the max allowable distance and simply compare that distance with the distance of several links on different lengths of the chain, after re-locating the weight to different links.

Yours looks OK.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I'm trying to figure out how to measure crankshaft endplay. My manual says insert a feeler gauge between the crankshaft and no.2 crankcase main journal...... The spec is .05 to .20 mm standard and maximum @ .4mm

After I do that I can take the rods off and take some pictures

Edit: I think I found the spot but the problem I see is that I had already taken out the crankshaft and I think the whole point is to see if there is play between it where it was sitting in the case (the crankshaft slides left and right a good amount after the case is split).

The picture subtitle says "Measure the endplay with a feeler gauge inserted between the no. 2 crank journal and the case web...."
That is saying something different than what I had wrote above correct??? If so then I guess it's a typo.

Whatever the case the measurement tells you whether or not you need a new case which I already know I do (for other reasons)....


On a side note, what is a good solvent for cleaning the engine?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Piston Rod # 1 And crankpin for no. 1 Piston rod

Notes: This is the one that had up and down play in it before I removed it. The bearings spin easily around the big end cap (see the gap?). I can also mate the two big end cap surfaces together by hand by tightening the nuts unlike piston rod 2.

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[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Piston rod # 2 and Crankpin no. 2

Note: The big end cap halves of the piston rod cannot be mated together by screwing the nuts in by hand.

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@%1;

[n4mwd]

Its hard to tell by the photos, but what I do see looks pretty good. Its very possible that all you might need is a new set of bearings. The bearings on the bad one don't look aligned properly. They should perfectly align with the split. As long as their aren't any groves or score marks in the crank pin or connecting rods, then you should be able to reuse it.

You need to bolt the bad rod back together and look to make sure its still round. Make sure you use a torque wrench because its really asy to stretch the bolts. You still need to buy new ones, (4 bolts + 4 nuts) because they are made of a special alloy.

If you need new rods, you can usually get a set on ebay pretty cheap (you need both for balance reasons).

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

How exactly do you tell if it's round still? Measuring around different points I'm guessing?

Is there a good solvent for cleaning the parts off?

[n4mwd]

Carb cleaner spray will clean most anything.

Put both rods back together without any bearings and put them on top of each other to see if one is not the same shape. That's not all that accurate, but when they go they tend to go big.

Other than that, put the bad one back on the crank with the good bearings and see if there is any play in any direction.

Its still kinda hard to tell from the photos.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

@n4mwd

The new case I bought has yellow markings on the bearings.

My old bearings have a blue marking on some of them. Are the markings the same for all bearings? What I mean is, if I spot a blue marking on one, are all the bearings in the case sized blue? I'm guessing the yellow bearings are a no go at this time?

[n4mwd]

The color probably indicates the size. But they could still fit. The only way to know for sure is to put it all together and torque it down (with a torque wrench to the exact specs) with plastigauge in there. Then see if the plastigauge threads squash out too much or too little.

How are your rods looking? I thought about using a caliper to measure but you could also use one and lock it in place and see how it looks all the way around.

Something was causing it to be loose like that and you need to figure out what was causing it.

The roundness of the crank journals is the most important thing. You can use the caliper in locked mode and rotate it to see if it binds or gets loose as you rotate it.

[baxtc1]

There is a chart in the service manual that lists the colour codes for different journal diameter/bore diameter. Might give you a rough idea before using the plastigauge.

[n4mwd]

BTW, they make different sized plastiguage. I think you want the green kind. But in case other manufacturers use different color codes, get the smallest they make.

The color codes in the manual can't be trusted when it comes to used bearings. Used bearings are usually thinner. You just have to plastiguage it and see. In fact, you need to do that even if you uses all new bearings.

I recommend new bearings for the crank rod journals. Those are the most critical. The problem is that they wont take them back if they are the wrong size. But you can sell them on ebay and get some of your money back. So its best to get the right size the first time.

For the straight journals, you should be able to find something that will work out of the two cases you have. They need to be the same halves. So don't mix one side from one case and the other side from the other.

Shopping list:
Plastiguage
Four half rod journal bearings of the right size.
four rod bolts
four rod nuts

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

BTW, they make different sized plastiguage. I think you want the green kind. But in case other manufacturers use different color codes, get the smallest they make.

The color codes in the manual can't be trusted when it comes to used bearings. Used bearings are usually thinner. You just have to plastiguage it and see. In fact, you need to do that even if you uses all new bearings.

I recommend new bearings for the crank rod journals. Those are the most critical. The problem is that they wont take them back if they are the wrong size. But you can sell them on ebay and get some of your money back. So its best to get the right size the first time.

For the straight journals, you should be able to find something that will work out of the two cases you have. They need to be the same halves. So don't mix one side from one case and the other side from the other.

Shopping list:
Plastiguage
Four half rod journal bearings of the right size.
four rod bolts
four rod nuts

Gotcha. I haven't measured the round of the rods yet but I'll do that today. I bought red and green plastigauge both for ~5 bucks total at advanced auto.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Spoke w/ a mechanic I know today and he saw that the bearings were spun immediately. He said the bearings on one were spun and the bearings on 2 were starting to. The "tangs" on my bearings were gone due to oil starvation locking them and then grinding off. He recommended I take scotch-pad to the rod caps and buy new bearings.

[n4mwd]

What did he say about the crank? That is the important thing.

Also, you shouldn't scotch brite or put anything abrasive on any of the parts because it will remove too much material. Remember we are dealing with microns here so a scotch brite pad might damage the part.

If oil starvation is an issue, then you need to check the oil passages in the crank to make sure they are clean. You should be able to squirt carb cleaner through the center journal and have it come out on the rod journals.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

What did he say about the crank? That is the important thing.

Also, you shouldn't scotch brite or put anything abrasive on any of the parts because it will remove too much material. Remember we are dealing with microns here so a scotch brite pad might damage the part.

If oil starvation is an issue, then you need to check the oil passages in the crank to make sure they are clean. You should be able to squirt carb cleaner through the center journal and have it come out on the rod journals.

Well he didn't look at the crank but he told me to visually inspect and honestly they look very smooth like there's not much I could even find to point a finger at. I'll definitely check the passages with a spray. What's interesting is that cylinder one was oil starved both in the head and in the crank it makes you wonder if something was lodged in between the oil pump and cyl. 1's passageway.

[n4mwd]

Its really easy to install the oil filter wrong. Check with the manual to dbl-check that you are installing it correctly. On this engine, a single grain of sand could destroy it if it gets past an incorrectly installed oil filter.

The bearings are made of soft steel so that if something goes, it will usually be them. But that isn't always the way it works. Put the caliper on it and lock the caliper tight so you can wind it around the journals to make sure its perfectly round. Do similar with the rods.

It was really loose on the bad cylinder with the bearings still mostly intact. So you need to find out where all that play was coming from.

Its normal for the inside of the rod ends to look tarnished, but that doesn't mean they spun or were damaged. Look for scuffs and gouges and stuff like that.

If you are lucky, the only damage will be the bearings.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

It was really loose on the bad cylinder with the bearings still mostly intact. So you need to find out where all that play was coming from.

Cylinder one was the bad one with the spun bearings. I don't think I mentioned it but the bearings had ridges on either side of them where the original thickness remained while the rest of the inner part was worn. That's where the play came from. I'm still unsure why that cylinder took a bigger beating than cylinder 2....

Cylinder 2s bearings were in much better shape but my friend said he could see the oil starvation had started to wear on them.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I'm still confused as to why my new crankcase has yellow markings on the bearings. The new case's balancer bearings are brown; that I can understand. I know it doesn't matter as long as it measures within tolerance but I'd like to find out anyways. The service manual only lists brown, blue, and black markings.

I'm stuck right now. I put plastigage (green type fyi) in and am putting the bolts back in but the manual seems to have the wrong sizing for the bolts! The bolts for the top of the crankcase are all right but for the bottom I am pretty certain they are listed wrong.

I am on page 8-8 of the service manual. It shows a diagram where 7 bolts are supposedly M8 x 72mm. The bolts I bagged contain 2 of that size, but 7 M8 x 90mm. This has got to be a mistake because I dropped the 72mm bolts into the oil filter tunnel (where the diagram shows) and the bolts spin freely not catching any threads.

My Haynes service manual doesn't have a tightening sequence or blowout diagram.... A little frustrated at this.

Edit: Ok now I see that it is a typo and numbers 1 and 3 at the bottom of page 8-8 should be swapped. I'll forgive them this once. If you have your manual printed I would make the changes now.

[n4mwd]

Just be sure to use the proper torques and use a torque wrench. They don't take much at all.

The bearing colors can't be trusted. I got some that were in a sealed factory package that said one color on the label and the actual bearing was a different color. The plastigauge is the only thing that can be trusted.

Also, some years they had extra colors.

On final assembly, make sure the bearings that have holes line up with the oil channels.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Main crankcase bearing
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Balancer Bearing
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The readings are pretty much the same across the balancer and crankcase. It looks good from what I can tell but I'd like a 2nd opinion.

Specs
Crankcase Main bearings:
Standard: 0.014 mm - 0.038 mm
Service Limit: 0.08 mm

Balancer Bearings:
Standard: 0.020 mm - 0.044 mm
Service Limit: 0.08 mm

On a side note, wouldn't it make more sense that the limit would be smaller than 0.020mm since that would indicate wear and therefore more clearance?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Should I replace this piston? I moved the bike with the block off and the tab caught on the case and broke off.....

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[baxtc1]

Replace the broken piston for sure.
I printed the crankcase bolt patern from the 2008 manual and put it in my folder.

[n4mwd]

The main shaft and balancer look good just like they are. But you'll need to be a lot more picky about the crank pin journals. They take all the beating. You need new bearings for that for sure. The marks they refer to in the manual are just blobs of paint and not a stamp. The "O" mark is the absence of a mark if I recall.

The service limit is a "don't go" limit for being too tight. You are no where near that.

Yes, you need a new piston. Preferably replace both if they come in a set. Don't forget about the rings. If you get them on ebay from a low mileage bike, the new pistons will probably come with new rings as well. That will give the engine more compression.

Check your rod ends and look for any scoring caused by the tab on the bearing. If it has them, you'll need new rods too.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

When putting new pistons in when am I required to hone the cylinders? Is it with new rings, just to get them to squeeze in?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

When putting new pistons in am I required to hone the cylinders?

new rings mean honed cylinders. new pistons mean new rings.

[n4mwd]

Its best to use new everything, but not required. The pistons on ebay will probably be used so they aren't new. So just use the rings that come with them if they aren't too high of mileage.

Considering the miles on your engine, I would seriously think about honing. You can get a honing kit at autozone or harbor freight for about $25. You'll also need an electric drill. Its really easy to let the thing slip out of the cylinder when its going and if so, it will self destruct and you just lost your new honing kit - ask me how I know that. Might be some tips on youtube that show a good technique for doing it properly.

You might be able to find a machine shop, like NAPA on military, that can do it cheaper, but be sure to ask about their shop minimum. If they do it, have them also check the heads for warpage. If you still aren't over the minimum, you could also have them install the new springs and keepers on your head.

Here is a honing video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mTsELG3Os
The issue is that you really need more speed than he shows and if it comes out at full speed, centrifugal force causes the hone to self destruct. I was thinking about something like some sort of stop to keep the drill from backing out too far. If the hone comes out past the hinge at full speed, it flies apart.

Here is a guy on ebay selling the rods/pistons (one broken skirt) for $35.

Another guy selling the same thing without a broken skirt for $50.

Note that both come with rod bearings that may possibly be usable. The one with the broken skirt is missing one ring, but you could possibly use the good piston with your old one.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I see my crank throw has a "0" stamped into it and neither of my rods are marked so the manual says to use part number 92028-1431 White/brown bearing inserts. I was able to find a set of those on ebay listed for years 86-87 but otherwise it seems the part number has changed.

motosport.com has the part number as 92028-1494 can anyone verify that is the same size bearing??

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I see my crank throw has a "0" stamped into it and neither of my rods are marked so the manual says to use part number 92028-1431 White/brown bearing inserts. I was able to find a set of those on ebay listed for years 86-87 but otherwise it seems the part number has changed.

motosport.com has the part number as 92028-1494 can anyone verify that is the same size bearing??

No that's the wrong mark. Remember, they use paint and not actual stampings to "mark" it. However, in the manual, they refer to "no mark" as "o".

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Ok, but same principle applies... The part numbers don't match up for my 2001

I think I'm gonna be buying a used set anyways so I guess it's not a big deal....

[n4mwd]

I think I may be totally wrong on that. I do know that the guys at the service area of broward motorsports had me bring mine in and then told me what bearing to get. They were correct. Maybe give them a call and see if they will help you.

If only one journal was marked then it could be that only that one needs that size bearings. But I'm not sure.

Based on what you are saying, it sounds like its probably the 1494 bearing. That's what the manual says to use. The 92028-1431 part number is not coming up.

Also remember that kawasaki sells the bearings in halves. So you need 4 of them.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Well I'm going off the service manual which tells you to check the marking on your crank throws and the marking on your big end caps.... Think I'll just buy a used set of rods on ebay and plastigage it.