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Old November 5th, 2021, 05:49 PM   #41
Bob KellyIII
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doing a quick pliminary check on the Triumph I discovered a few things.
I pulled the spark plugs and tried using my compression guage on the left side
but sense it is not a screw in compression gauge it pops off while I am kicking it.... it did register over 100psi though....
I resorted to the old stand by and that is putting my thumb over the hole and kicking it and it blew my thumb off the hole with a loud pop on both cylinders
...so I am assuming it has good compression.
....
I noticed that the points plate was twisted all the way to the right in the slot...
so I loosened the screws and centered the points plate in the slot and that may have helped and may not have it fired up ( with quickstart) but would drop to one cylinder at idle.... I am NOW suspecting the pilot jet is plugged on the left cylinder... so when the new high altitude main jet gets here I'll pull both carbs and do a real through job at cleaning the carbs and install the new main jet
..... no...i didn't pull the pilot jet out when I had that carb off a day ago and I am kicking myself for it ! ....
....
setting for 15 years usually means dirty carbs is a given... but this monster has a inherent timing problem that i seem to have focused on... it's just about impossible to adjust the timing without it running good at idle
so you can hook up the timing light !... so I am at an impasse .....
....
I don't think the fuel air screw is doing anything on the left side at all so I suspect a plugged pilot jet.
....
I think....and I do mean THINK...the timing is good enough to get it to idle
if both carbs are working correctly.... so when my timing tool for the crank gets here.... and the main jets I will do the carbs , removing everything I possibly can and cleaning it thoroughly .... now I wish I had bought a sonic cleaner ! LOL

...
... it almost idles on the one cylinder by itself but not quite
it runs nice above 3k RPM as close as I can tell that would be off the main jets..... but anything below that it stagers and drops a cylinder then picks it up then drops it again.... alot like the Ninja was doing and I know now that is dirty carbs....( it's still cold blooded by the way)
.....
and I put too much oil in it.... it was at half way point in the dip stick now it's at the top wanting to over flow.... what's up with that ???? weird !
....
one thing for certain ! I do NOT understand all I know about this machine
but I guess that is what makes it kind 'a exciting... learning new things
...
so I've gone around the bush and arrived back at where I started from.... CARBS !

....
Bob.......
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Old November 6th, 2021, 12:29 PM   #42
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I pulled the left side carb off late last night just to clean the pilot jet and it's circuit.....
got it all off there and low and behold there is no pilot jet in that carb !!!!
the fuel/air screw does it all.......
so.... again I am at a loss...
....
Bob.
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Old November 6th, 2021, 01:19 PM   #43
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damn previous owners! Seems the older the bike, the more damage accumulated from "mods" and "fixes"!
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Old November 6th, 2021, 02:19 PM   #44
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damn previous owners! Seems the older the bike, the more damage accumulated from "mods" and "fixes"!
I think he means that carb was designed to not have a pilot jet... just a mixture screw like a lawnmower engine.
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Old November 6th, 2021, 02:28 PM   #45
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Ah yes, thanks! So most likely carbs need to go to ducatiman for restoration. Clue was it runs better on starter fluid.
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Old November 6th, 2021, 02:59 PM   #46
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I think the main issue is the nut behind the wheel in this case...
I didn't know it had no pilot circuit so I left the airscrew alone....
turns out I should have fiddled with it alot more and I probably would have gotten it to fire at idle ...I think it was too rich to run down at low rpm with the factory settings .... I am in the process of trying to install the electronic ignition now... I think that will cure all the problems....at least I hope so
right now there was no reason for the carb to be at fault other than adjustment of the fuel air screw.... every hole and orifice in that carb is clean...I am positive of that...I took my time and did it right.
now I have both carbs off tank off seat off and am working on getting the coils out and replacing them as it takes 2 6v coils in series to make this electronic ignition work. I am still waiting on my TDC tool it should be here monday but there is alot of preliminary B.S. to get done before that is needed so I figured I'd get started on it.
the mark on the alternator rotor is for TDC but there is none for full advanced position at 38Deg. that is where the TDC tool comes in at there are supposed to be 2 notches in the crank flywheel one for TDC and the other for full advance at 38Deg. BTDC.... I need that mark for setting the electronic ignition magnet at the correct spot.
.... if anything gives me trouble here it will be the wiring, as I am not positive weather this bike is Positive ground or negative ground.... the E.I. will work with either, but I need to know one way or the other ...so it's manual time...
can't tell from the battery hookup ... but there is a fuze on the neg side which is odd ! so that may denote positive ground.....
.....
but the manual should tell me for sure !
.....
later...
Bob........


....
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Old November 6th, 2021, 04:14 PM   #47
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OK ! I think I found the problem.... in fact I am sure of it.
the needle jet was in the wrong clip slot on one side ! ...
ASSUMPTION is the Mother of all F#@%& UPS still holds true !!!!! I assumed that the needle was in the center slot so I put it there when I reassembled the carb the first time around.... I just checked the right side and found it was on the 3rd slot not the center one..... ( being high altitude I guess the P.O. put it there to lean it out a bit....smart move actually)
but when I put the left carb back together I ASSUMED it was in the 2nd slot so I put it back together with the clip in the middle slot.... WRONG ! which made the needle jet lower on the left side and not equil to the right screwing up how it ran in every position but idle.... so I put it in the 3rd position like it should be....
I have the bike all apart right now so I can't try it to see if it runs any better but I am sure that was a major part of my problems....
I will continue now in putting on the electronic ignition..... I could not find what ground it was on the bike so I just took the VTOM and saw I had continuity to the frame on the positive side... so it IS POSITIVE GROUND !
....
finding that needle clip on the wrong slot is like AURGH ! WHATT"A DUMMY but that's how it goes some times ! you make an assumption and it comes back and bites you !
..... i'm just glad I checked it and caught the screwup NOW !!!!
.....
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Old November 6th, 2021, 04:35 PM   #48
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Are you saying that having the needle one notch off cause it to not start?
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Old November 6th, 2021, 05:20 PM   #49
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no I'm saying having the needle one notch off will cause it to run real bad !
the needle will only effect mid range and above in RPM not idle and the reason it won't start is yet to be determined.... more than likely its carb synchronization, air screw adjustment and down right struberness !
everysense I got it it would not idle.... and it is real hard to adjust anything if it won't idle !
.....
if I can get the thing to idle good I can get the thing balanced with the air screws... and that should fix the hard starting issue.

....
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Old November 7th, 2021, 02:56 PM   #50
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Well, I have been installing the electronic ignition system on this old Triumph
and I must say I am impressed with the quality of the kit itself. it's very well made....
although I did have to file a large notch for the wires to get out of the point area, because the new stator plate blocked the hole enough to where it was a struggle to get the wires through... so I gave it more room...LOL
....
...I think the pointer in the outer cover for indicating the 38Deg. advance mark
is bent..... so I am kind 'a waiting till my TDC indicator tool gets here to double check it with... before I lock everything down good.
the wiring looks rather simple, but I really haven't gotten into it yet.
I think that pulling the original HOT lead from the coils to power the IGN unit
is the way to go...that way it's off when the key is off. but I have to determine which of the 4 wires that is.... so I may well have to put the battery back in the bike just to get that part figured out.
then it's just following their wiring diagram which is easy peasy !
.... if I would have thought ahead enough to see that I would need that hot wire to the coils I would have marked it ...because they all look the same.
.....but.... that is how it goes 20/20 hindsight ! and all that !LOL
.....
Man it got Really cold here last night !!!!!
we had a hard freeze ...which is good as the insects will now be gone outside
....
Mt. Shasta Has snow on it again which is real good to see.... it's not real thick but it is some !
.....
...My poor Triumph is all apart...I hate to see it that way !
....
.. Bob.......
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Old November 7th, 2021, 03:03 PM   #51
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Humm... with the points plate having been turned all the way in one direction
and seeing that the POINTER on the alternator side Looks bent ( aluminum casing crushed a bit and it's pointing at an angle I am guessing that is why
the points plate was turned all the way.... the TDC tool i have coming will show exactly where 38Deg. is at and if it doesn't line up with the pointer mark I'll know it's bent.... I suspect it is !!!!!!
best to determine that now.... i want to KNOW it's right !
.....
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Old November 9th, 2021, 11:24 AM   #52
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Well, now....
My parts came in the middle of the biggest storm of the year so far so I let the parts wait till today ! LOL....
I just used the TDC tool and found 38Deg. BTDC with it checked my pointer on the case and it is within a cats hair of being right on it...so that's good.
then I timed the Magnet and got that dead nuts on . and then put a spark plug in the spark plug lead and turned the key on and I kicked it over a few times and I have good spark ! so that problem should be solved forever !
I will strobe time it later after I get it running... just to make sure it's dead on in the timing.
.....
next is carburation... I'll put in the jets I got for both carbs and put them back
on... and then re-assemble the rest of the bike i.e. seat and gas tank
then try starting it.
....so that's the plan there....
it's still quite cold out side and in the shop ( no heat in there)
so I may well put that stuff off a day or two...
..... But things are looking UP for the O'l Girl ....
my Shop is a mess right now and needs a good cleaning as I have been going in there doing 1 thing and running back to the warm house ! it's been too cold to stay in there very long ! LOL...
....
we had one hellacious wind storm yesterday with 60mph gusts and heavy rain.... but it's back to a light breeze now so it looks like we're through the worst of it.
.... I've been watching Lowbrow customs videos on the triumph and I've learned alot by doing so.... those videos was what prompted me into getting the electronic ignition and get it put on there... the hardest part of the whole install was routing the cold wires ! LOL.... if anyone is thinking of doing the electronic ignition install like I just did on my 1977 Bonneville Triumph 750
I'd say do not attempt it without the TDC tool... it makes every thing so much easier....
.....
later !
Bob........
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Old November 9th, 2021, 02:24 PM   #53
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I'm not sure what TDC tool you mean. I use either a piston stop I made from a spark plug, in conjunction with a degree wheel, or a dial indicator, with or without a degree wheel. My 2-strokes have the plug at the middle of the combustion chamber so I can use a dial indicator to find the crank position by converting thousandths of an inch to degrees.
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Old November 9th, 2021, 03:20 PM   #54
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I have a dial indicator for the sparkplug hole in a 2 stroke but this thing is totally different. On the Triumph at least the older ones , they have a plug that resides behind the cylinders and at the front of the transition, the pre unit ( separate transition from the engine) don't have this plug, but this plug is removed and the tool threaded into the hole then a sliding pin goes into the tool... and goes down and touches the crank shaft weight that is the flywheel that is bolted to the cast crankshaft. this flywheel has 2 notches cut in it.
one for 38 degrees BTDC, and the other for TDC.... it is very accurate !
...more accurate than the magnet on the alternator.
it's just a fancy pipe plug with a hole drilled through it and a short rod fits tightly into the hole...no slop at all... so what you do is get the bike on compression stroke with the piston coming up , but way before TDC... and put the pin in the hole... put your finger on the pin and press a little...and rotate the engine slowly... when the notch comes around the pin will drop in the notch and you have the 38Deg. BTDC that you need to set full advance with. ....
but the Triumph has very little in the way of timing marks on it ...I am lucky to have one with needle in the primary cover that points to a line on the Alternator magnet.... but their not always accurate on these old bikes...
but checking it with the TDC tool it turns out this one is right on it. so that's good !
....
the procedure for setting the electronic ignition was fairly simple, once you have the engine at exactly 38degrees BTDC you align the magnet with the stator plate that sets the timing, then tighten everything down and your done. but it is getting the engine to that place that isn't so easy...
... I suppose it is alot like any other bike you just line up the firing mark on the magnet and your there but it is different in quite a few ways.... one there is no TDC on the magnet at all just the firing mark.... I guess they figure for setting the valves that just past the firing mark is close enough to set the valves with..... LOL.... from what I've seen on the web most guys adjust them with the other side's rockers all the way down and that is close enough
so there is alot of misinformation on the correct way to do it and the manual is vague on the subject saying something like put the piston to TDC on the side your going to adjust and adjust both valves, but there is no TDC mark !!!
but You and I both know if you can get the piston on the compression stroke and at the top of it's travel that is close enough for government work ! LOL
....
anyway, I got both carbs with their new jets back on the engine and had to give up and come back in the house and get warm again...
all I have left to do now is put the gas tank and seat back on and try starting it !.....
....
then I'll need to set the airscrews on each carb and then time it with the strobe light.... and it will be ready to ride I hope.... we'll see.
.....
if I had a degree wheel I would have used that instead of spending $12.00 for the TDC tool cuz I'm cheap... but I've not replaced my degree wheel from the Ranch fire yet.... so the special tool got bought !
( I need a degree wheel anyway , I could use it on the lathe alot! )
....

Bob........
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Old November 10th, 2021, 12:15 AM   #55
Bob KellyIII
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Hummm..... interesting !
I got the carbs back on and the gas tank and couldn't stand it any longer and tried to start it.... on gas alone no quick start.... I got it to "Brump, Brump "
but that was all.... then I noticed my right carb bowl leaking gas.. so I gott'a find out why that is....these floats have a tendancy to stick in their down position and not raise up when gas finally gets to them ..... a peculiarity of the beast I suppose.
but it did fire 2 times on both cylinders so that is very very good news !!!!
now it's just sorting out the carbs.... which shouldn't be a problem but I have said that before many times ! ..... I've never seen a carb quite like this in all my years.... it's as bare basic as you can get ! no pilot jets at all so the fuel/air screw 's adjustment must be really critical on it and right now I know they are off.... they need adjusted properly.
according to the manual you pull the spark plug lead and adjust the live cylinder for best running..... not the highest RPM ...the best running, which is kind'a strange ! then you switch and do the same for the other cylinder.
..... normal procedure on a twin in my book....
.... I am wondering if I had a bad coil to begin with or not... as I replaced the points condenser and coils with new different stuff and I immediately got both cylinders to fire.....( on like the 3rd Kick) so it sounds like a good possibility to me.
.....
when I put the carb bowls back on I did not use any gasket cement I just left the gaskets dry and put them on, although I am reusing the old gaskets
their in good shape so why not !?!?!
...
I do not like the fuel line arrangement on this Triumph much at all... you can't see fuel in the lines as they are black and their bolt on fittings are a pain in the butt.... it's much easier to just unplug the vinyl lines and be done with that part of it.... and I like in-line fuel filters... this has none.!
the way it is probably 10 times more robust
but i don't care for one side feeding both carbs and the other side feeding both carbs ... too many lines for my liking, even if it is "better" so that will probably be changed in the near future !
.... and because the stator plate is thicker than the points plate was the point's cover will not screw down tight the stand off bolts are too tall now...
so I will have to grind off about 1/8" on each one for the points plate to fit on it correctly once again. ( another fiddly bit to do !) I'll probably have to shorten each bolt as well ! LOL.....
....
but it fired ! , I didn't get it running because it is late at night and I didn't want to disturb the neighbors !....and the fuel leak...
so tomorrow is the day I bet !
.....
Bob......
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Old November 10th, 2021, 05:34 AM   #56
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but i don't care for one side feeding both carbs and the other side feeding both carbs ... too many lines for my liking, even if it is "better" so that will probably be changed in the near future !
My Moto Guzzi's tank and fuel lines were like that. The reason was the tank's center hump for frame clearance was so big that when the fuel got low it needed two petcocks to get the last gallon or two. If you had each petcock feed only one carburetor, you could end up with one cylinder running and one not, if you got the fuel level very low. The complicated lines looked strange, but worked fine.
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Old November 10th, 2021, 11:19 PM   #57
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well, pooie.... another day gone by without the Triumph running....
I did get it to fire up for a second but it felt like it just ran out of gas !... I know this O'l girl is cold blooded but I am very reluctant to use the choke
so I opted for the quick start and got it to fire up a few times with that.....
this time I got it to take a bit of throttle but then like i said it acted like it was out of gas and died I'll try again tomorrow when it is light out because it is a noisy monster even with the new mufflers on it. it's just too noisy to play with it at 10:00pm at night !
.... so I'll wait for daylight ! LOL...
.....
I discovered something strange... I turn the key switch on and imediately the neutral light comes on.... or ignition on light what ever that one is.... then I kick it and the light goes out...... and after a few seconds it comes back on.... I am wondering if that is the reason it wouldn't keep running ! this electronic ignition takes a minimum of 10v to work and with the key on and the tail light on I get about 11.5 to 12 volts at the plug in for the electronic ignition.... so it is enough to run it if it stays that high but not if the battery is dropping voltage ! .....something I may well have to look into.
the battery does not look old at all and the P.O. said he recently replaced it...
but recently to a 75 year old man is a relative time,.... and it could be last years battery ! LOL,.... so the battery may be weak. I don't think so, but it might be.
..... and it is a small 12v battery.... not a big one at all...
.....
...taking the bulb out of the tail light might get it to run for a minute or two if the system is not charging....
.....
anyway... no vroom yet...
so I'll keep working on it !
....
Bob.....
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Old November 11th, 2021, 03:24 AM   #58
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so I opted for the quick start and got it to fire up a few times with that.....
This is very basic logic...

IF it it runs on quick-start but
NOT without
THEN it's obviously not getting equivalent amount of fuel from carbs...

You've gone through this trap before...
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Old November 11th, 2021, 04:33 AM   #59
Bob KellyIII
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Hi Danno !
but you gott'a see these carbs to believe them.... there ain't anything to block the flow of fuel there is a main jet and a needle jet No emulsifier tube its just a fitting to attach the main jet to the needle jet.... everything is clear in the carb itself ...there is no pilot jet it sucks directly from the carb float bowl via 2 tubes that are clean into a area where the air screw meaters the flow of fuel
... these things are so basic that normal carburetor rules do not apply ! well, almost ! LOL if it's not getting fuel then it's got to be the air screw adjustment..... carb cleaner ( because it has a sprey and a straw not because it cleans...) shoots out any orifice it is supposed to...
if it's not getting fuel it is because I set the float level too low... or have the air screws too far in ..... it's not the carbs it's me ! of that I am sure !
but the question is, what did I screw up this time ? LOL
the float level I changed on both carbs simply because the previous owner said he just replaced both floats ... and I had over flow on each carb on (separate occasions ).... so I lowered the float level slightly ( very little)
on the left and on the right carbs...
.... I am confident it will run right now ... as I got it to fire several times without the quickstart on gasoline alone... but kicking it is alot of work for this old man so I used the quick start to get it going quicker....
.....
if it's a carb issue I will eat my hat ! ( no I won't, that thing is filthy!) LOL
but I do not think there is anything wrong with the carbs at this point in time
.... if I can get it running tomorrow by what ever method, seeing if it will IDLE is the key.... it is static timed by the book so it should run and idle
right now the air screws are 2 turns out... the one on the right side was 1.5 turns out and the other was 2.5 so I put them at 2 turns out on each.
the book calls for 2.5 turns out as a starting point....so it is possible it might be a bit lean for a cold engine to idle on right at the moment
...i don't know how sensitive those screws are...yet... I expect they are very sensitive !

Yes I've been through this before many times you must take the entire bike into consideration.... not just one part like the carbs. their not always the answer.... usually they are but you have to let the machine tell you what's wrong... and so far she's not talking much....
....
....later !
Bob........
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Old November 11th, 2021, 05:34 AM   #60
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Why don't you want to use the choke?
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Old November 11th, 2021, 06:50 AM   #61
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ummmm.... I'm leary of it ???? mainly...I don't know.... I flooded the hell out of it the first day so I have been scared to use it HAHAHAHAH
.....
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Old November 11th, 2021, 07:30 AM   #62
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It's not surprising that it doesn't want to run without choke when cold. My Guzzi needed its enricher on for the first few hundred yards from my driveway. There's no way it would have started without it or some other help, and if I had squirted something in the carbs to get it started it would have immediately stalled when I quit squirting.
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Old November 11th, 2021, 09:22 AM   #63
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... use the choke... Bob....
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Old November 11th, 2021, 11:57 AM   #64
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LOL... OK i'll use the choke !
but it's going to run today no matter what ! I have faith...
and it's noon so I can make NOISE.... so lookout ! HAHAHAHA
later all
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Old November 11th, 2021, 01:24 PM   #65
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Humm... I used the choke and the ticklier's on both carbs and one kick had it going... imagen that ! .... ( that was after I got it going on quickstart)
... but it's running on 1 cyl at idle not both and yes blocking off the carb intake
makes it pick up the dead cylinder... so it is lean for some reason....
i had to increase the idle screws in both carbs to get it to idle on 1 cyl but it did idle like that a bit .... then it died before I could do any other testing
....
i started it about 5 times so it is starting fairly good but it's not running very good at all.... I suspect the new jets are too lean 180 instead of the stock 190 jets... and the needles are at the top position .... so what ever I do I have to pull the tank to get at the slides at any rate....
....
one thing about that bike I dislike is that when I rev it up it creeps backwards at a fairly fast pace towards the door....( i guess she wants out !)
this is when it is on it's center stand ! LOL
and my shop is just too small for that , I have to position the bike just right in there in order to get to both sides ! and then it is scooting all over the place ! ..... I might try putting a piece of plywood under the stand on the cement and see if that helps....
anyway... I gott'a run to town and do some shopping....
it runs and the new electronic ignition works... but I fear the carbs have to come off again.... I think I'll put the stock jets back in and see if that helps
and try to find some info on float height adjustment... ( i don't think there is any) and I'll put the jet needles in the middle position
... these jet needles don't have the circlip like normal carbs they have a bent spring wire that slips on the needle and the throttle return spring rests on that to hold down the needle.... one of those clips is broken and pops off the needle ....I have 2 new clips coming already.... so far it's been holding the needle in good but I don't trust that wimpy clip ! so I'm going to replace them....
.... man that is a big bike ! it feels quite powerful ! more than the old W1 kawasaki 650 i had did... and it's lighter !
.... it should be a fun ride !
....
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Old November 11th, 2021, 01:32 PM   #66
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I suspect the new jets are too lean 180 instead of the stock 190 jets.
I'm glad it's showing promise, but there's no way that main jets, even if too small, have anything to do with how it runs in your garage.
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Old November 11th, 2021, 04:18 PM   #67
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yah..that's what I was thinking as well....
well.... what would cause it to drop a cylinder at 1200rpm and lower...
low compression would cause that...
carb issue of not getting enough fuel like Danno says...
ignition failure at low RPM ( unlikely )
....
so what would cause the lean issue in the carb....
....DIRTY carb....
plugged passageways and the like...
air screws adjusted too lean... ( this doesn't act like that...)that condition usually is characterized by a sputter rather than dropping the cylinder to dead condition below a certain RPM...)
....
sense I almost never change the needle clip condition EVER.... I can't say I know what the conditions are for the clip being too high or too low.
I believe that is signified by a sogg on acceleration for too lean or a blustery sound and alot of smoke....for too rich.
....
if anything this may have a sogg upon acceleration, but really that is yet to be determined.
.....
still sounds like a carb issue to me ! ...but how can that be? their clean !
well I said that 3 times for the SX650 and finally found a passage way that was plugged... so I MUST be missing something
setting for 15 years and the owner cleaned the carbs, I have cleaned the carbs as well... but evidently their dirty or it would run correctly Right ?
so I'll pull the carbs and do another complete tear down of each carb and pay special attention to that fuel air screw passage way....
....
putting my hand over the carb throat and it picking up the cylinder at idle told me alot.... that cylinder is too lean to run at idle ...but why ?
I'll try one more thing and turn the air screw out 1/2 turn more on that side
only and see if that makes a difference or not before I tear into it again.
....
later !
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Old November 11th, 2021, 07:17 PM   #68
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AH HA ! this carb has a pressed in pilot jet that cannot be removed. if the bike starts and then dies ( which is what mine is doing now) the pilot jet is plugged and your supposed to clean it by plugging the big hole in the front of the carb bore and shoot compressed air into the air/fuel adjustment screw hole.
and they do NOT give any mention as to how to adjust the float level... so it's a if it leaks "bend the tab till it don't leak" type thing....
.... I thought it had to have a pilot jet in there somewhere ! LOL
...ok NOW I gott'a plan and am not scratching my head ! anymore....
...
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Old November 11th, 2021, 11:51 PM   #69
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well, I spoke too soon.... I thought for sure that would fix it but nope !
... I pulled out the air/fuel mixture screw and blew compressed air through there while plugging the big hole like the instructions in the manual said
but there is no change.
it starts for a second and then dies on gas mind you not quick start now.
and yes that is with the choke on fully.... but it's still not getting fuel through that super duper tiny pilot jet hole that is pressed way in there I can see it with my flashlight and it "LOOKS CLEAN" but you and I both know that means nothing....
a wire from my wire brush might be small enough to go in the hole in the pilot jet but I seriously doubt it.... I ran a drill bit by hand down the long holes to the pilot jet and found no debris at all, those are clean too.... the fuel pick up hole MUST be the culprit ! as a process of elimination.... from the air screw hole the hole "T"'s to a vertical hole down to the float bowl.... and I figure it must have a blockage in that portion of the line....
the float bowl portion that continues the long hole is clean I am sure of that but in the carb portion I did not run a wire through that passage... I just sprayed carb cleaner in that hole.... and it came out the air/fuel screw hole and the big middle hole in the carb intake ... like it should.... so I would say that it is clean as well......
so I assume the passage to that pressed in jet is clean....
that leaves only the jet being plugged as a final verdict.... so it's scrounge around till I find a wire small enough and strong enough to poke through that tiny hole to make sure.... I cannot see through it but it is black behind that jet so i really cannot tell by looking.

not having a passage way drawing of the AMIL 900 series carb to go by I am guessing that there is only one "T" in the pilot circuit....for the fuel.
or I could be wrong and there is no "T" at all and just a "L" down to the float bowl .... and the Air side has the "T" in it.
there has to be enough vacuum to draw up the fuel to the pilot jet to mix with the air set by the Air screw in order to function properly.
it looks to me that the tip of the air screw is shaped just so it will cause a vinturi effect at the pilot jet to suck up fuel.... so that fuel side must be a straight shot to the fuel bowl or at least as straight as was possible in manufacturing it, hinse the 90 degree turn in it to the bowl...

we'll see what I come up with ...this bike has definitely been a challenge
the funny part is, I thought it would be a Snap. as this is the era of bike I worked on most of my life... but this one is being very picky ! and throwing in a AMIL 900 carb to the mix has set me back a bit ! HAHAHA if it was a 30mm Mikuni carb I'd have had it going the first day I am sure...
...but I am sure She will teach me a thing or two before it's all over ! HA !
... just goes to show ya, your never too old to learn !

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Old November 12th, 2021, 05:36 AM   #70
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I don't know if this applies to your carbs, but you should be able to tell: https://www.jrcengineering.com/techn...g-and-jetting/

If not, do a Google Images search for Amal 900 series diagram and you'll get a lot of results to look at.

This description says you can clean the pilot jet by removing the air screw: http://amalcarb.co.uk/rebuilding-mar...ic-carburetter

Last futzed with by Triple Jim; November 12th, 2021 at 07:17 AM.
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Old November 12th, 2021, 01:14 PM   #71
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wow Just what I needed to see ! THANKS JIM !!!!
....back to work....
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Old November 12th, 2021, 03:38 PM   #72
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OK here's what I did.... I pulled the airscrew again... and got the compressor fully pressurized, ( last time it only has about 20 psi in it) and I blew into the air screw hole several times... and got gas all over the place I also plugged the big hole in the end of the bell of the carb at the same time...
if it was going to come out with the use of air it would have that time !
... I put the air screw back in set it to 2.5 turns out and tickled the carbs...
turned the key on and kicked it and it fired right up ran for about 1 second and then died.... it's still not getting fuel.
the next attempt I just tickled the carbs after several times kicking it to no avail and after tickling the carbs it fires easy.... the choke was on full all this time too BTW.... I kicked it and if fired up and I held the RPM at 2500 to 3,000
and held it there for a few seconds then tried to reduce throttle slowly and soon as I got down to around 2000RPM it fell on it's face and died there was no recovery... I tried giving it throttle at that point but it just died anyway.... no fuel obviously !..... the smallest piece of wire I could find is a tiny spring that I straightened out and tried in the hole of the pilot jet... no go it is still too big ! that has to be a 2 micron hole or something it really is tiny....
.....
so I am left with 3 options I suppose, 1#)pull the carb and try from the other side to find the blockage.... from inside the carb itself although I know all those holes are clean.... 2#) replace the 40 year old carburetors or 3#) send them to Ducatti man and see if by chance he can un-plug that pressed in pilot jet......
Replacing the carbs ( both of them) will cost close to $1000.00 bucks
but I can see the logic in doing that as they are warped on the intake flange
and that is why the slide didn't want to slide very good on the left side... the right carb is the same way..... but that carb works... at the moment.
...although the warpage isn't an issue any more as I have corrected for that
( mostly) they seal up fine now...
so I am left at that conundrum.... replace or not to replace and possibly face the same issue in the future again. .... it's a tough one !
....incidentally, the petcock on the left side at the rear of the gas tank that was totally plugged up... has no screen over it and hasn't had for a long time
which is probably the reason for all this trouble in the first place.
I am going to order a new petcock with a screen and replace it.
... while I try to decide on what to do !
...later !
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Old November 12th, 2021, 04:39 PM   #73
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Well, I did it.... I ordered new carbs for the Triumph and it set me back $774.00 bucks for that order ! OUCH !!!!!
... so these new carburetors have a removable pilot jet !!!! and my problems should be cured as soon as their installed and tuned....
that brought the cost of my $4000 dollar bike up to almost $5000. bucks and probably into that a bit with the cost of the new clutch I already added to it...
but it's still a bargain to me ! so I am happy....
.... nothing like a classic bike to add to the cost of motorcycling ! LOL
....
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Old November 12th, 2021, 04:47 PM   #74
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Old November 12th, 2021, 05:55 PM   #75
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LOL so true !
... well I got new carbs coming now simply because I can't clean the carb.... that sounds exceedingly silly to me for some reason !
I also ordered 2 new petcocks that have screens on them... and their sealing washers....
.... oh well its only money ..right ? LOL
...
something tells me I should have bought that ultrasonic cleaner 3 months ago
i would have saved money in the long run ! ....
....
so next week when the new carbs get here I shall continue.... ...
later all...
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Old November 12th, 2021, 07:32 PM   #76
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I think I may have chosen Mikuni carbs.
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Old November 12th, 2021, 08:17 PM   #77
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LOL...I didn't even think about that... I couldn't get "ORIGINAL" so I got the updated version of the 30mm carbs that replaced them...
I did think about going with a bit bigger carbs like 32MM but not for long...
as I am not planning on making the bike any noisier than it is right now
adding cams and flow through exhaust would do just that...so it's good enough with the stock sized carbs....
....
I am getting to like these AMAL 900 carbs though, except for the fact that you can't clean the pilot jet on the original carbs the design is pure
simplicity !
...
I know my Brother-in-law's 200 Triumph tiger cub ran for years with out even a hick-up from the carb so they are a reliable design...
...His bike was My first introduction to anything bigger in size then a 90cc honda.
and boy I really liked that bike.... even if the ball bearing in the clutch rod arrangement kept falling out ..other than that it had low end torque out the Kazoo !
....
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Old November 13th, 2021, 07:13 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
except for the fact that you can't clean the pilot jet on the original carbs the design is pure
simplicity !
I call bs on this one. Woulda, coulda, shoulda sent me the carbs for a pro clean.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 06:49 AM   #79
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Well I still might send you the carbs in all truthfulness ! just to have a back up set, if nothing else....
I watched a video on cleaning the Amal 900 carbs pilot orface... ( can't call it a jet really) and the guy found wire that would go through that tiny hole from a bag of garden twist-ties he just stripped the paper stuff off one end and used that.... I thought KOOL i'll see if I have one...and I did..so I went out there and tried to poke the wire through that tiny hole ... but no way ! it's either too big of a wire or it is pluged up very solidly...
I one-upped that wire the other day by finding a slightly smaller wire of stronger material, a small very weak spring... I un wound it and had the wire.
spring steel too ...that shouldn't break off in the hole ! LOL
...but it won't go through the hole either...the hole size is about the same size as a hair I have to have my magnifying glasses on to see it !
.... i don't know how the guy in the video got his wimpy wire through the jet when the jet on mine is so much smaller...it's strange !
...i figure the only way to clean that jet is chemical stuff to dissolve it,or ultrasonic which might or might not do it... that is just as likely to shine up the debris real good ! HAHAHAHA
....
I also heard that if 2.5 turns out of the airscrews doesn't work use 3 turns out... that I haven't tried... but I will tomorrow... just for S&G's
if that works I will Kick myself in the butt for not trying it earlier...
..but I don't expect it to....
but I would be pleasantly surprised !
....
it's been raining here the last few days....
but at least we haven't had any snow YET....
later !
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Old November 14th, 2021, 07:01 AM   #80
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I also heard that if 2.5 turns out of the airscrews doesn't work use 3 turns out... that I haven't tried... but I will tomorrow...
Since your problem seems to be insufficient fuel, I don't see how increasing the air in the mixture will help.
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