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Old November 5th, 2021, 09:52 PM   #1
SuspectPage3
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08Ninja250R - Start up issue :mad:

Hi Riders,

I got myself a 08 Ninja 250R (used) with 18500kms on it. The bike ran fine for a week or such and now all of a sudden it's dying off on me. I could really use some help here please!!!!! (Disclaimer: I do not have much understanding of the bike, carbs, engine etc, but I am happy to get my hands dirty & try to fix as much I can)

So the bikes running fine and I am riding along to work and I could feel the bike is struggling to stay on, (I am not expert, but feels like it's running out of gas). So I opened the throttle and after a few seconds it was back to normal. I stopped at traffic light and then as soon as I put into 1st and opened the throttle, the bike stalled. After a few starts, it picked up.

Later at night, I put the key in, choke on, fire the bike and it started in one go, but after waiting about 30sec or such, I am ready to go and as soon as I open the throttle, the bike stalls. So I kept trying to start and rev it up, and then it stalls. If I leave it running on idle, then the bike stays on forever, no issue. I tried to choke it and then fire up and leave it running for a bit and then choke off and somehow managed to get it to rev and start riding. But still the bike feels like dying off randomly when riding. I thought may be the fuel is low (although had plenty of fuel in tank), so I fueled up and it ran okay for a bit and all of sudden feels like it's about to stall again. I'd rev it - rev it and then it's running again.

I am not sure what the problem is, I just want to reach home from work and then I can afford for it to die on me. I will be happy to pull it apart and look into the issue if someone can point me in right direction.

Thanks in advance!!!
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Old November 6th, 2021, 12:12 AM   #2
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let's do some simple diagnostic testing.

1. get small squirt bottle and put some petrol in it

2. open cover to airbox so you can see edge of air-filtre

3. squirt about 10cc of petrol into airbox, wait about 30-sec for it to vapourise

4. start bike, rev it up. Does engine rev quickly and easily?
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Old November 6th, 2021, 12:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
let's do some simple diagnostic testing.

1. get small squirt bottle and put some petrol in it

2. open cover to airbox so you can see edge of air-filtre

3. squirt about 10cc of petrol into airbox, wait about 30-sec for it to vapourise

4. start bike, rev it up. Does engine rev quickly and easily?
Okay, sure, let me try this when I'm home, I will reply when im done

*Goes home and google's what is airbox and how to open it* lol
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Old November 6th, 2021, 04:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
let's do some simple diagnostic testing.

1. get small squirt bottle and put some petrol in it

2. open cover to airbox so you can see edge of air-filtre

3. squirt about 10cc of petrol into airbox, wait about 30-sec for it to vapourise

4. start bike, rev it up. Does engine rev quickly and easily?
Odd that the 08 aussie bikes isn't EFI model
I think he need clean out fuel petcock and if you have fuel filter replace it and clean out the carb bowl
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Old November 6th, 2021, 05:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
let's do some simple diagnostic testing.

1. get small squirt bottle and put some petrol in it

2. open cover to airbox so you can see edge of air-filtre

3. squirt about 10cc of petrol into airbox, wait about 30-sec for it to vapourise

4. start bike, rev it up. Does engine rev quickly and easily?
Hi Danno, so I've opened the airbox and sprayed petrol at the opening (towards the engine side) and waited 30 secs, fire up the bike and it started in one go (after sitting overnight without choke) and I could rev it up right away, I held up the revs to 4-5k for 30 secs and all good.
I put things together and took it for a test ride and as soon as I put in first gear and took off, it tried to die on me, I just reved it up and 2-3 secs of struggling to stay on, and then all good. Hope this helps and I did all correctly as needed.
I noticed the air filter is clean and in good shape. See pics if helps. What would be my next step here please?
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Old November 6th, 2021, 06:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Hi Danno, so I've opened the airbox and sprayed petrol at the opening (towards the engine side) and waited 30 secs, fire up the bike and it started in one go (after sitting overnight without choke) and I could rev it up right away, I held up the revs to 4-5k for 30 secs and all good.
I put things together and took it for a test ride and as soon as I put in first gear and took off, it tried to die on me, I just reved it up and 2-3 secs of struggling to stay on, and then all good. Hope this helps and I did all correctly as needed.
I noticed the air filter is clean and in good shape. See pics if helps. What would be my next step here please?
Check air box intake just left of air filter maybe there a rat nest in it
Look like you got K&N air filter or clone to clean with soap water and blow dry and reapply oil to it
Have try ride it with out the air filter ?.

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Old November 6th, 2021, 06:27 PM   #7
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Adding gasoline made it run better, so the air filter box is not clogged with a nest or dirty filter. Something is restricting fuel flow, like a clogged fuel filter at the carb inlet or a tank vent that's not venting, or even dirty carbs.
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Old November 6th, 2021, 09:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Hi Danno, so I've opened the airbox and sprayed petrol at the opening (towards the engine side) and waited 30 secs, fire up the bike and it started in one go (after sitting overnight without choke) and I could rev it up right away, I held up the revs to 4-5k for 30 secs and all good.
I put things together and took it for a test ride and as soon as I put in first gear and took off, it tried to die on me,...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Adding gasoline made it run better, so the air filter box is not clogged with a nest or dirty filter. Something is restricting fuel flow, like a clogged fuel filter at the carb inlet or a tank vent that's not venting, or even dirty carbs.
Yup, good testing! When you bypass carbs and spray petrol directly into engine, it runs great! This shows you've got fuel problem, not enough petrol is getting into engine to run. It won't run that well again until you've fixed your fuel-flow issue.

You've got K&N aftermarket filter, so it's possible you've got some other modifications. Best to verify everything is in stock configuration and factory-fresh clean. Might as well clean K&N filter and re-oil it (lightly, don't drown it).


1. First test is easy. As Jim mentioned, clogged tank-vent can prevent petrol from flowing out of tank. Easy to test riding with tank-cap open. Does it run better?


2. Next should be inspecting tiny filtre inside fuel-inlet port of carb. Remove fuel hose from carb-inlet and look at filtre. If it's clogged or ripped, might as well replace it with external in-line unit.




3. Then test petcock and verify it flows sufficient petrol. Aim fuel-hose into measuring cup. Apply vacuum to port and note vacuum-level where flow reaches maximum. If it's higher than 3-4 in.Hg, diaphragm may be leaking and it may not be opening enough under regular use (this picture is for different bike, ignore numbers).



Also time 30-seconds flow. How much petrol did cup collect?
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Old November 6th, 2021, 10:34 PM   #9
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@shspvr - lol no, there's no rat nest in there, I looked around (out of curiosity) already,
Also, you mean to clean the filter and try a test ride with fresh filter or without one? I'm confused!

@Danno - thank you! Yes, the bike has some mods done by previous owner, there's Yoshi exhaust, non OEM air filter (as you guys mentioned, I wouldn't have known), the bike feels to be lowered (I'm being 5.6" can comfortably flat foot both sides, which I couldn't on my cbr250), tail tidy and other I may not know.

Now, I'm super excited to try your next suggested trouble shoot, I'll clean the filter and see if it makes difference. Further I'll try tank vent test, easy to complete. And then I'll figure out inspection the fuel port filter. But the vacuum thing you said, did not make sense to me, I didn't understand a word, but let's see how I go with step 1&2 and then I'll worry about next.

Also, when I was doing my first trouble shoot, to get fuel into spray bottle, I removed the fuel hose (like arrow 1 in image below) and then turned valve (like arrow 2 in image below) to prime and fuel was pouring out, but when on "ON" position, it barely came out. Does that mean anything? I would try your next suggestions on Wednesday as that's my next day off, and I'll get back to you once done
PS: I rode to work today, and luckily the bike didn't trouble at all on the way, let's hope it takes me back home too XD,
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Old November 7th, 2021, 07:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
(after sitting overnight without choke) and I could rev it up right away, I held up the revs to 4-5k for 30 secs and all good.
SuspectPage3 I take you deleted your previous post ?. My bad I meant without one install to see it still dose same thing because you said you let it sitting overnight without choke and start it in morning which I'm assuming you didn't spray any more petrol directly into air box ?.

I would start remove fuel bowl with 8mm wrench from bottom of the fuel petcock do see any ethanol damage? you my see some regular trash in it but there should no white/lite tan crusty stuff.
If you do see ethanol damage you may pull the fuel petcock remove the five screw from diaphragm and inspect for ethanol damage there if do see ethanol damage I recommend replace the fuel petcock it stead of trying to save it as new one are cheap for your model year off eBay at lease here in USA, and clean out carburetor and fuel passage really well

If everything good

As Jim point try with tank cap open
There are two possible there evaporative canister system on you model that also is provide venting to fuel tank just left of fuel petcock you should see 2 hoses NoN Emission going into fuel tank or 3 hoses with Emission going into fuel tank
I'm not sure if the Emission Model Tank are also vented gas cap usually there not just like cars

As DannoXYZ said vacuum test the fuel cut off diaphragm is good idea
Also inspect all the vacuum line come from the carburetor and any other hoses there for cracks and shrinkage
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Old November 7th, 2021, 12:49 PM   #11
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SuspectPage3 I take you deleted your previous post ?
I was wondering what happened to my reply? I posted a response and saw a pop up window coming up, and I accidentally closed it before I could read, did I delete the reply by mistake?
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Old November 7th, 2021, 01:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
I was wondering what happened to my reply? I posted a response and saw a pop up window coming up, and I accidentally closed it before I could read, did I delete the reply by mistake?
Found your response email it wasn't Reply to thread any way here it is below

-----------------------
shspvr - lol no, there's no rat nest in there, I looked around (out of curiosity) already,
Also, you mean to clean the filter and try a test ride with fresh filter or without one? I'm confused!

@Danno - thank you! Yes, the bike has some mods done by previous owner, there's Yoshi exhaust, non OEM air filter (as you guys mentioned, I wouldn't have known), the bike feels to be lowered (I'm being 5.6" can comfortably flat foot both sides, which I couldn't on my cbr250), tail tidy and other I may not know.

Now, I'm super excited to try your next suggested trouble shoot, I'll clean the filter and see if it makes difference. Further I'll try tank vent test, easy to complete. And then I'll figure out inspection the fuel port filter. But the vacuum thing you said, did not make sense to me, I didn't understand a word, but let's see how I go with step 1&2 and then I'll worry about next.

Also, when I was doing my first trouble shoot, to get fuel into spray bottle, I removed the fuel hose (like arrow 1 in image below) and then turned valve (like arrow 2 in image below) to prime and fuel was pouring out, but when on "ON" position, it barely came out. Does that mean anything? I would try your next suggestions on Wednesday as that's my next day off, and I'll get back to you once done
PS: I rode to work today, and luckily the bike didn't trouble at all on the way, let's hope it takes me back home too XD,

---------------
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Old November 7th, 2021, 01:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shspvr View Post
Found your response email it wasn't Reply to thread any way here it is below

Also, when I was doing my first trouble shoot, to get fuel into spray bottle, I removed the fuel hose (like arrow 1 in image below) and then turned valve (like arrow 2 in image below) to prime and fuel was pouring out....
Thank you @shspvr
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Old November 7th, 2021, 01:15 PM   #14
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Thank you @shspvr
Image re-attached

There shouldn't be any fuel come out in "ON" position you see when the engine is running it pull a vacuum open up fuel shut off diaphragm to allow fuel thru act like on off switch so doesn't flood you carb with fuel that what 2nd hose is for
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Old November 7th, 2021, 02:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Now, I'm super excited to try your next suggested trouble shoot, I'll clean the filter and see if it makes difference. Further I'll try tank vent test, easy to complete. And then I'll figure out inspection the fuel port filter. But the vacuum thing you said, did not make sense to me, I didn't understand a word, but let's see how I go with step 1&2 and then I'll worry about next...
---------------
Vacuum is opposite of pressure, less than normal air. You use bicycle pump to add extra air and pressure to tyre. A vacuum pump as shown in photo sucks air out. Some people suck on small hose attached to petcock's vacuum diaphragm to activate it and cause fuel flow. But that doesn't give you quantitative measured number of how much vacuum is needed to turn on petrol flow.

With worn-out or leaking petcock diaphragm, it may be possible to make it flow by sucking on hose, but engine may not generate as much vacuum and you won't get enough flow. The vacuum activation hose is smaller one to right/behind main fuel hose coming out of petcock in your photo.



In wonder if this is OEM petcock? For U.S. bikes, petcock doesn't have lever. Just slot for screwdriver to turn position. When doing vacuum activation & fuel-flow test, petcock should be set to normal ON position.
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Old November 7th, 2021, 03:15 PM   #16
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In wonder if this is OEM petcock? For U.S. bikes, petcock doesn't have lever. Just slot for screwdriver to turn position. When doing vacuum activation & fuel-flow test, petcock should be set to normal ON position.
Hi, I should have mentioned before, that this picture is NOT from my bike. I forgot to take a pic before putting the fairings back on, so I googled a ninja 250 picture and found this similar looking one.

As you mentioned, mine one does not have lever either, I used a flathead to turn the position. Looks like you guys really know your way around bikes well, you could tell just looking at the picture. nice
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Old November 7th, 2021, 03:27 PM   #17
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In wonder if this is OEM petcock? For U.S. bikes, petcock doesn't have lever. Just slot for screwdriver to turn position. When doing vacuum activation & fuel-flow test, petcock should be set to normal ON position.
From photo of OEM I saw
88 thru 07 Petcock Valve have a extended body had reg lever
08 thru 12 Petcock Valve have a short body has coin slot but can replace them with reg lever which I think are 3rd party or from diff Kaw OEM Planet.
I think the photo is a Calif model with evaporative canister system or some country
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Old November 8th, 2021, 02:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post

1. First test is easy. As Jim mentioned, clogged tank-vent can prevent petrol from flowing out of tank. Easy to test riding with tank-cap open. Does it run better?
TBH I couldn't answer this, as the bike "dying off" is bit of hit and miss, it doesn't do it all the time, so during my test run with fuel cap open, bike didn't try to die on me, also on my way back from work, it ran smoothly. So sorry I can't say for sure if leaving the cap off helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
2. Next should be inspecting tiny filtre inside fuel-inlet port of carb. Remove fuel hose from carb-inlet and look at filtre. If it's clogged or ripped, might as well replace it with external in-line unit.
Yes I did this part. The filter seems to be in good shape, no debris in it. See my picture taken below. Sorry for low quality image as I'm working at 830pm and it's getting dark outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shspvr View Post

I would start remove fuel bowl with 8mm wrench from bottom of the fuel petcock do see any ethanol damage? you my see some regular trash in it but there should no white/lite tan crusty stuff.
If you do see ethanol damage you may pull the fuel petcock remove the five screw from diaphragm and inspect for ethanol damage there if do see ethanol damage I recommend replace the fuel petcock it stead of trying to save it as new one are cheap for your model year off eBay at lease here in USA, and clean out carburetor and fuel passage really well
?
Can you please point this out in a picture, I don't know what is fuel bowl or diaphragm etc. Once I know what I'm inspecting, I'll be happy to look at it.
Thanks!
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Old November 9th, 2021, 10:28 AM   #19
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Yeah, photo is of '88-07 pre-gen bike, CA-model with EVAP canister.
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Old November 12th, 2021, 01:35 PM   #20
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Can you please point this out in a picture, I don't know what is fuel bowl or diaphragm etc. Once I know what I'm inspecting, I'll be happy to look at it.
Thanks!
odd place to fine a filter
fuel bowl filter if your has one and diaphragm
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Old November 12th, 2021, 01:50 PM   #21
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The stock fuel line filter is indeed jammed in the fuel hose at the carb inlet. The petcock inlet tube that extends into the tank also has one. I've taken out the one in the fuel line and installed a pleated paper filter in the middle of the hose.
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Old November 12th, 2021, 03:19 PM   #22
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Can you please point this out in a picture, I don't know what is fuel bowl or diaphragm etc. Once I know what I'm inspecting, I'll be happy to look at it.
Thanks!
You can just do petcock flow test. If numbers are sufficient, no need to disassemble petcock for cleaning as it's not needed.

For easier future maintenance, leave out tiny internal filter and install an external in-line filter on hose between petcock and carbs. Shorten hose so it doesn't dip down and back up. Install filter so petrol flows from outside inwards so it'll be easy to visually check for debris build-up.


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Old November 13th, 2021, 06:55 AM   #23
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Or a 5/16 90 degree fuel filter
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Old November 13th, 2021, 11:45 AM   #24
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Okay, thanks guys! I will try this and order an external filter as well. Let's see how I go, I will keep you posted!
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Old November 13th, 2021, 11:59 AM   #25
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Okay, thanks guys! I will try this and order an external filter as well. Let's see how I go, I will keep you posted!
Stay away from the sintered metal type. I've had particles get through one of those that were so big one clogged a main jet! Pleated paper filters won't do that.

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Old November 14th, 2021, 07:52 AM   #26
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I am wondering why none of you guys have told him to use the drain screws on the bottom of the carb float bowls to drain the gas out yet... in Aussie land they have alot of trouble with water in the fuel alot like California did for a while until the law cracked down on the owners of the gas stations for putting their garden hoses into the fuel tanks.... ( back in the 70's boys)
... any way... running good then running bad is a symptom of water in the fuel
and it's a easy fix.... when in doubt turn the screw next to the small black drain line on the float bowl of the carburetors... drain everything out... and it should stop draining because the motor is not running... you don't have to take those screws out just loosen them about 2 or 3 turns is all... then tighten them back up. ( don't leave them like that or you'll forget them !)
....
Another thing I like to do is get the motor running and rev it to about 3,000 RPM and put your hand over the throat of one carburetor....
then take it off when the RPM's drop to about 2000 RPM... and do that again to the other side... this sucks all the junk out of the carburetor along with any water that is lingering in there...
this is only do-able if you have the boots and air box all disconnected because you can't put your hand over the back of the carb if their on there
....
doing that will also help show up a fuel supply problem as it sucks alot of gas out of the carb and it will take a few seconds to recover ...if it takes a minute or two to recover then you definitely have a fuel supply problem !!!!
(replace the petcock with one that doesn't have that stupid vacuum line ! )
....
my 2 coppers
Bob......
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Old November 14th, 2021, 09:12 AM   #27
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I am wondering why none of you guys have told him to use the drain screws on the bottom of the carb float bowls to drain the gas out yet... in Aussie land they have alot of trouble with water in the fuel alot like California did for a while until the law cracked down on the owners of the gas stations for putting their garden hoses into the fuel tanks.... ( back in the 70's boys)
... any way... running good then running bad is a symptom of water in the fuel
and it's a easy fix.... when in doubt turn the screw next to the small black drain line on the float bowl of the carburetors... drain everything out... and it should stop draining because the motor is not running... you don't have to take those screws out just loosen them about 2 or 3 turns is all... then tighten them back up. ( don't leave them like that or you'll forget them !)
....
Another thing I like to do is get the motor running and rev it to about 3,000 RPM and put your hand over the throat of one carburetor....
then take it off when the RPM's drop to about 2000 RPM... and do that again to the other side... this sucks all the junk out of the carburetor along with any water that is lingering in there...
this is only do-able if you have the boots and air box all disconnected because you can't put your hand over the back of the carb if their on there
....
doing that will also help show up a fuel supply problem as it sucks alot of gas out of the carb and it will take a few seconds to recover ...if it takes a minute or two to recover then you definitely have a fuel supply problem !!!!
(replace the petcock with one that doesn't have that stupid vacuum line ! )
....
my 2 coppers
Bob......
Unless he has boat load of water in bowl and tank it wouldn't run at all usually just sucked it right through and burned it as you keep the high RPMS
I agree it can't hurt to open up the float bowl drain screw
The reason for the stupid vacuum on petcock is easy you be surprised by how many people who do not turn off the fuel petcock when let it sit
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Old November 14th, 2021, 09:32 AM   #28
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If the tank cools fast after being hot a vacuum forms that starves the engine of fuel causing a stall within a block or two. Even happened to me on a stock bike when brand new… usually after riding hard to get fully warm then parking it for a short time (store visit) before blasting off somewhere. While parked the engine heat goes into the tank which rapidly cools when you take off, forming a vacuum. Adding gas seems to help because you opened the tank and released the vacuum.

Not saying this is it but definitely something to keep in mind.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 10:07 AM   #29
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If the tank cools fast after being hot a vacuum forms that starves the engine of fuel causing a stall within a block or two.
That would require the tank vent being clogged.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 10:35 AM   #30
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That would require the tank vent being clogged.
Nope… just overwhelmed and unable to vent fast enough. My tank would moan and whistle like everyone else’s. I didn’t own a car and commuted daily yet this would only catch me about once a year. I found examples of it happening to others too.

I assume the vent is deliberately constricted so it isn’t just breathing in nightly condensation to fill up with water or evaporate fuel.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 11:19 AM   #31
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I assume the vent is deliberately constricted so it isn’t just breathing in nightly condensation to fill up with water or evaporate fuel.
The vent should be free to let pressure in or out pretty quickly. They do get clogged though, and if the vent gets partially blocked it might let enough air leak in to let the engine run, but not fast enough to prevent a vacuum if you get a sudden cooling situation. It's not designed to be partially restricted like that though.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 11:53 AM   #32
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The vent should be free to let pressure in or out pretty quickly. They do get clogged though, and if the vent gets partially blocked it might let enough air leak in to let the engine run, but not fast enough to prevent a vacuum if you get a sudden cooling situation. It's not designed to be partially restricted like that though.
If the vents were totally unrestricted then Kawasaki Tank Whistle™ wouldn’t be a thing. The tank vents just fine for normal conditions. It’s only when I do something that specifically gets the tank hot and then rapidly cooled that the vacuum starves the carbs/engine of fuel.

My 2008 Ninja 250 was brand new when I first experienced it and it continued whistling for years so I know the vent wasn’t clogged. I didn’t figure out what it was until it happened twice a year later (remember: riding daily). In both cases, opening the cap allowed it to run… but one instance was during a downpour and I had to push to a covered gas station. It was left warming up so that I could try to beat the rain but my relief at work was nearly an hour late with my bike left running the whole time. The engine was totally hot while the bike was stationary and all that heat was going up into the tank. Sure enough, the rain immediately started pouring on me (and the tank!) as soon as I left and a couple blocks later I sputtered out at a stop light.

The other time was after I blasted up the interstate, engine piping hot, only to park and blast off again a short while later. I was just checking a Goodwill store and was probably in there around 10 minutes. Once cool air was flowing over the engine and tank I sputtered out at a stoplight a few blocks away.

After that, well, it was easy to predict what situations might cause this and I could open the tank preemptively or predict that it would soon sputter out. Even before then it would only happen one in several hundred rides (pushing 1,000). It’s no wonder the issue flies under the radar. After all, the tank does vent normally.

After seeing it affect at least two others here over the years I feel I should point it out any time I see a possibly relevant situation.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 12:25 PM   #33
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After seeing it affect at least two others here over the years I feel I should point it out any time I see a possibly relevant situation.
Something is odd then. Maybe some tank vents came from the factory overly restricted for some reason like improperly cut gaskets, or something assembled a little out of place.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 12:54 PM   #34
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Something is odd then. Maybe some tank vents came from the factory overly restricted for some reason like improperly cut gaskets, or something assembled a little out of place.
Yeah. I’d love to see if I could make it happen on someone else’s 250J to know for sure that it isn’t something you could make happen on any J or K bike. Of course, OP may be dealing with a genuinely-clogged vent regardless.

@SuspectPage3
Does your tank ever make noise like a moan or whistle when it sits?

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There shouldn't be any fuel come out in "ON" position you see when the engine is running it pull a vacuum open up fuel shut off diaphragm to allow fuel thru act like on off switch so doesn't flood you carb with fuel that what 2nd hose is for
These bikes are known for leaky petcock. Here is why:
https://imgur.com/06nhPsg

It seems that many of them have this defect. They literally can’t make a full seal. That was a picture of the one I replaced, but I wasn’t the first to discover this. Never got to verify the replacement didn’t have the same issue.

Edit:
Figured I’d pull this out of the IMGUR link but I’ll leave the link above for the full resolution:

“Inner ring should be complete, not C-shaped. It can't seal so fuel leaks. Many are like this from the factory.”

That inner ring appears to be made of Teflon or something. I suspect an air bubble during production leaves the C-shape behind.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 02:05 PM   #35
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I’d love to see if I could make it happen on someone else’s 250J to know for sure that it isn’t something you could make happen on any J or K bike.
If mine could do it I surely would have had it happen by now. It's been parked in hot sun and then ridden off many dozens of times. Also I never hear any noises from it.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 03:45 PM   #36
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Yeah. I’d love to see if I could make it happen on someone else’s 250J to know for sure that it isn’t something you could make happen on any J or K bike. Of course, OP may be dealing with a genuinely-clogged vent regardless.

@SuspectPage3
Does your tank ever make noise like a moan or whistle when it sits?



These bikes are known for leaky petcock. Here is why:
https://imgur.com/06nhPsg

It seems that many of them have this defect. They literally can’t make a full seal. That was a picture of the one I replaced, but I wasn’t the first to discover this. Never got to verify the replacement didn’t have the same issue.

Edit:
Figured I’d pull this out of the IMGUR link but I’ll leave the link above for the full resolution:

“Inner ring should be complete, not C-shaped. It can't seal so fuel leaks. Many are like this from the factory.”

That inner ring appears to be made of Teflon or something. I suspect an air bubble during production leaves the C-shape behind.
It mean the spring lose it spring height so there for it isn't able to maintain enough pressure on the O-ring you can stretch the spring out just a little bit which will help maintain enough pressure to seal it
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Old November 14th, 2021, 08:37 PM   #37
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If mine could do it I surely would have had it happen by now. It's been parked in hot sun and then ridden off many dozens of times. Also I never hear any noises from it.
I rode daily and parked in the sun exclusively for over four years after buying it new and that was never enough to cause it. The engine had to be parked REALLY hot… like, ridden hard and not simply idled. The fan may blow for a bit after turning it off but much of that remaining heat will make its way up into the tank. Because it seems find for a few blocks you might not make the connection even if it happens to you. Have you ever had an unexplained stall?

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It mean the spring lose it spring height so there for it isn't able to maintain enough pressure on the O-ring you can stretch the spring out just a little bit which will help maintain enough pressure to seal it
The “ring” it seals against is incomplete… C-shaped instead of ring-shaped. It is supposed to be ring-shaped. The material is white and plastic-like… not compressible like a rubber O-ring. You can seat it all the way against the remnant of that ring and fuel will still make its way out the missing part of the ring. The incomplete ring is holding it open and preventing a seal.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 09:14 PM   #38
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Have you ever had an unexplained stall?
Not that I can think of.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 09:25 PM   #39
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were talking about TWO different things now right?

1. clogged tank-vent causing vacuum in tank. This is not binary all-or-nothing issue. It's possible to have partially clogged vent, which still vents enough for adequate petrol flow. Mine hissed and squealed for years before I fixed it, but was always able to start and run bike normally regardless. One simple and easy test is riding with cap open. OP reports this made no difference. OP also has not reported any hissing or whining from tank. So we can assume tank-venting is not issue in this case.

2. Leaky petcock seal should only affect operations when bike is off. Such as causing dripping through carbs with non-sealing float-valves resulting in hydrolocked engine and/or stripped starter ring-gear. Neither has been reported by OP. Leaky petcock should not affect opened
operation when bike is ON in anyway because diaphragm will be open for full flow anyway.


Which is our final diagnostic test. If his petcock flow-rate is measured to be sufficient, only conclusion left is dirty and clogged carbs.
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Old November 14th, 2021, 09:26 PM   #40
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The “ring” it seals against is incomplete… C-shaped instead of ring-shaped. It is supposed to be ring-shaped. The material is white and plastic-like… not compressible like a rubber O-ring. You can seat it all the way against the remnant of that ring and fuel will still make its way out the missing part of the ring. The incomplete ring is holding it open and preventing a seal.
Are you refer to part that is circled in yellow ? if yes it should not be going that far in should be sitting on the 45 degree bevel
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