Bike feels like it rolls with friction in first with clutch in

[ieoz]

If you have been following my chain of threads you know that my bike chain popped while I was riding 30MPH also causing a lot of collateral damage and jamming my chain in between my engine block at 30MPH as well. I was able to finally get the chain out and put a new one on, along with a new front and rear sprocket but now it wont start, even worse when its in first gear and has the clutch fulled depressed it will hardly roll. its not completely free. Any idea on what I can do? I feel like I may have to salvage the bike but I hope not...

TL;DR : The bike will go into first, but has trouble rolling even when the clutch is fulled pressed in.

[Sirref]

The clutch/transmission may be damaged from any added tension on the chain before it broke. I take it the engine block was undamaged from the chain

it rolls fine in neutral but not with the clutch lever in in first? have you tried adjusting the clutch lever/clutch line? does it ride normally once you get it into 2nd?

[cadd]

Originally Posted by ieoz

TL;DR : The bike will go into first, but has trouble rolling even when the clutch is fulled pressed in.

My bike goes in 1st gear. It doesn't roll forward when I have the clutch lever pulled. Is that what you meant?

"the clutch is fulled pressed in". What does that mean? What is pressing it? Are you referring to the actual clutch or the clutch lever?

[ieoz]

Originally Posted by Sirref

The clutch/transmission may be damaged from any added tension on the chain before it broke. I take it the engine block was undamaged from the chain

it rolls fine in neutral but not with the clutch lever in in first? have you tried adjusting the clutch lever/clutch line? does it ride normally once you get it into 2nd?

I cant even pop it in 2nd. I think the problem there is that I cant start the bike. Or should I be able to even when the bike is off? its a 2011

[Sirref]

definitely sounds like clutch damage

[ieoz]

Originally Posted by Sirref

definitely sounds like clutch damage

any specific part? like the plates or what?

[Sirref]

I can't tell without actually seeing it, it's possible that the damage is minor or extensive. I'd take it to a shop or a friend that knows bikes well to open it up and check it out

[Ducati999]

WAIT!
Please clarify what exactly is being done (action) and what happens (reaction)

You stated that the bike will not start---is the bike running when you are "rolling in first"?
You will not be able to shift into any gear other than first and nuteral without the motor running due to the positive N finder on Kawasaki bikes.

When the motor is not running and the bike is in first, it can be harder to push the bike than nuteral even with the clutch lever pulled into the handlebar because for drag of oil on the clutch plates.

Please answer the questions and the answer will be provided

[verboten1]

isn't the neutral switch under the cover?

the kickstand switch is over there.


either one with damaged wiring could keep it from turning over.
the clutch is on the other side of the bike. I doubt it's messed up.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Ducati999

WAIT!
Please clarify what exactly is being done (action) and what happens (reaction)

I feel like we need a template for posting problems, like I made for users to report IT problems...

Summary: A few sentences describing the problem.
Steps to reproduce: List the actions you did, in order, for this situation to happen.
Desired results: What did you expect to happen after doing the above steps?
Actual results: What actually happened when you did those steps?
Reproducibility: How often does this outcome happen? Every time? Most of the time? Occasionally? Can't get it to do it again?

Originally Posted by verboten1

isn't the neutral switch under the cover?

the kickstand switch is over there.


either one with damaged wiring could keep it from turning over.
the clutch is on the other side of the bike. I doubt it's messed up.

The kickstand switch will only kill the engine if the bike is in gear with the clutch out (i.e. as you let the clutch out to ride off with the stand down). The neutral switch is essentially overridden in any situation by having the clutch pulled. The neutral indicator light is also grounded through that switch, so if the dash light works properly, then the switch is inherently working properly.

Assuming the clutch switch is working, having the clutch pulled will allow the bike to start and run regardless of the state of the other switches.

[kxpower?]

Originally Posted by ieoz

If you have been following my chain of threads you know that my bike chain popped while I was riding 30MPH also causing a lot of collateral damage and jamming my chain in between my engine block at 30MPH as well. I was able to finally get the chain out and put a new one on, along with a new front and rear sprocket but now it wont start, even worse when its in first gear and has the clutch fulled depressed it will hardly roll. its not completely free. Any idea on what I can do? I feel like I may have to salvage the bike but I hope not...

TL;DR : The bike will go into first, but has trouble rolling even when the clutch is fulled pressed in.

OK I'm going to try and interpret all this, and considering your other posts as well. So you have 2 problems: it won't start, and it won't go into first. So far it appears you think that both are related to your broken chain.

You said your motorcycle "wasn't so fortunate", what all was damaged? Sounds like you chewed up the front sprocket and the chain cover, in the world of starter bikes like the ninjette that's really not much damage at all. Hell all you need to buy is a sprocket and a chain, should be riding it again with an afternoon of work. Was there anything on the engine case or electrical that was damaged? The clutch located on the opposite corner of the engine from the output shaft, I don't see how a chain could damage it.

First the non-start: I'll assume this means it won't turn over. Meaning you turn on the ignition, turn on the kill switch (don't ask me why I ask!), pull in the clutch and hit the starter button and nothing happens. Do the warning lights come on? Does the green neutral light come one? Do you get a click out of the solenoid close to your right ankle? How is your battery?

Or is it turning over and just failing to start? Much more complicated question if so.

Now the dragging in gear thing: There's usually a little drag on the wet clutch in first. Like when you shift a running bike from neutral to first, a lot of bikes will lurch forward just from the drag on the disengaged clutch. It's even worse on a cold bike where the oil between the clutch plates is extra thick and sticky. I know my EX250 drags enough when it's cold it's A LOT harder to roll in first gear than it is in neutral.

Do I understand correctly that you're trying to turn the output shaft (where the small drive sprocket that was damaged went) with one hand while holding the clutch in with the other? I don't think you have enough leverage to turn it with an operable clutch. Especially if you're just grabbing the shaft with your hand (as opposed to the sprocket), you can put a lot more torque on the output shaft by putting it all back together and just rolling the bike.

I'm really concerned that you've noticed this only because you've been in there wrenching on stuff; that in reality nothing is wrong with the clutch. Get a new sprocket and chain installed first, and if the clutch is failing to disengage then we'll start back on that problem.

LT;DR: Fix the problem you're sure of first.

Originally Posted by Ducati999

WAIT!
Please clarify what exactly is being done (action) and what happens (reaction)

You stated that the bike will not start---is the bike running when you are "rolling in first"?
You will not be able to shift into any gear other than first and nuteral without the motor running due to the positive N finder on Kawasaki bikes.

When the motor is not running and the bike is in first, it can be harder to push the bike than nuteral even with the clutch lever pulled into the handlebar because for drag of oil on the clutch plates.

Please answer the questions and the answer will be provided

So basically

[ieoz]

Originally Posted by Ducati999

WAIT!
Please clarify what exactly is being done (action) and what happens (reaction)

You stated that the bike will not start---is the bike running when you are "rolling in first"?
You will not be able to shift into any gear other than first and nuteral without the motor running due to the positive N finder on Kawasaki bikes.

When the motor is not running and the bike is in first, it can be harder to push the bike than nuteral even with the clutch lever pulled into the handlebar because for drag of oil on the clutch plates.

Please answer the questions and the answer will be provided

So the engine was on when the incident occurred and was only turned off when I came to a complete stop using the kill switch. It does not turn over but will try and get very close. I never noticed the 'clutch drag' before but perhaps I never paid close attention.

[cadd]

You're not helping us help you.

[Ducati999]

Originally Posted by ieoz

So the engine was on when the incident occurred and was only turned off when I came to a complete stop using the kill switch. It does not turn over but will try and get very close. I never noticed the 'clutch drag' before but perhaps I never paid close attention.

OK Getting better but you still need to answer the questions so we can help you. There are some of the most knowledgeable ninja 250 mechanics in the world on this forum but even they cant fix what they dont know!

You seemed to answer the question about the bike not running when the clutch was "dragging" (I am only guessing based on your statement not a direct answer)

When you try to start the bike is the kick stand up or down. Bike in neutral or gear? if in neutral is neutral light on dash lit? have you tried the choke? Do you smell gas in the exhaust fumes? have you checked if the fuel is on prime or run?

All we can do is guess when you say "It will not turn over but its close"
Make sure you have a fully charged battery, put bike into N and be sure green light is on on the dash then hit the emergency engine stop first to stop then to run and then hit the starter for a few seconds----smell exhaust if it does not start--see if it smells of strongly of gas or smells normal. Provided the bike did not start try the choke and repeat then report back with as many details as possible! If it was running then there is only a minor issue preventing it from running now

[verboten1]

Turning over means the starter is turning and the engine is rotating.

Starting it means it turned over and is now running.

So, if it's not turning over, it's not close to starting.

If it's turning over but not starting, there are other problems.


If the bike was on its side, it can be hard to start sometimes.

[Ducati999]

Originally Posted by verboten1

Turning over means the starter is turning and the engine is rotating.

Starting it means it turned over and is now running.

So, if it's not turning over, it's not close to starting.

If it's turning over but not starting, there are other problems.


If the bike was on its side, it can be hard to start sometimes.

Agreed but he did not say (that I remember--should reread OP) that the bike went down just that the chain snapped and he shut it down with the engine kill switch

[verboten1]

Exactly. But we have no idea what's happening, so I gave some definitions to get everyone on the same page. Which we clearly are not.