Clutch friction point

peter330 · May 9th, 2010, 05:10 PM

Ok guys I did something stupid today. I went for a group ride today and one of my buddies warmed up his tired by skidding his back tires with the front brake in and thought that was a good idea to do before rides on a cold spring day. So after this ride, I tried doing this myself, held the front brake in put some throttle, to the point where the clutch was all the way out with throttle up pretty high 8-9k. I assume there isn't enough torque to do this on the 250 as I got it to spin a few times, but was working the engine way to hard.

So I gave up and rode the bike around to make sure I didn't mess anything up. Well unfortunately, I think I did. The clutch engagement point (friction zone) is now much higher almost at the point where the clutch is fully out. I bought this bike used and sorta got use to where it was before which was closer to the middle of the pull. My question is, where is the friction typically suppose to be and how does one adjust it if needed. I apologize I dont have the user manual so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

sofo · May 9th, 2010, 05:46 PM

I won't get into the technical but it sounds like you might want to check your clutch cable adjustment to start... there are many diys here that detail this.

...but don't feel bad about doing what you did, we all do something stupid for bravado or peer pressure / whatever at times.

backinthesaddleagain · May 9th, 2010, 08:09 PM

Although I don't recommend what you did, due to clutch wear, tire wear, and potential engine wear, I don't think the friction point was (or should be) near the middle of the clutch lever's travel.

As far as your friend warming the rear tire before a cold ride, I don't know what he really thought he would accomplish. Sure racers use tire warmers but thats on both tires, and then race speeds and agressive cornering would keep the tires warm. Burning the rear wouldn't help to warm the front. Also on a cold morning the road is often much colder than the air, even if you did warm both tires, how much of an effect would that have a few minutes later on a cold road?

peter330 · May 9th, 2010, 09:39 PM

thanks for the responses, i adjusted the clutch cable easily enough, who wouldve known you have to wiggle the cable tubing while turning the adjuster, took me the longest time to figure that out. Good thing because I was about to pull out some pliers. Possibly time for some cable lubing.

As for the tire warming, yes I know its a stupid thing to do now, especially on the low torque 250. I have to somewhat disagree that it has none to little beneficial effect though. When we ride we take routes that excercise the full potential of turning. Warming the back tire prevents low siding. It seems rational to me but before you start bashing, educate me why.

Either way, lesson learned.

kkim · May 9th, 2010, 09:55 PM

what you did (or tried to do) was (in my book) abuse the bike in order to, ahem

, warm up the tire. increased clutch wear, tire wear, possible dumping of the bike, etc... for what?? to warm up the tire before you start pushing it? you might warm up the rear tire, but what about the front using your method?

how about doing what everyone else does and ride the bike moderately till engine and tires are properly warmed up and ready to be ridden at the limits?

wiggle the cable tubing???

backinthesaddleagain · May 9th, 2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter330

thanks for the responses, i adjusted the clutch cable easily enough, who wouldve known you have to wiggle the cable tubing while turning the adjuster, took me the longest time to figure that out. Good thing because I was about to pull out some pliers. Possibly time for some cable lubing.

As for the tire warming, yes I know its a stupid thing to do now, especially on the low torque 250. I have to somewhat disagree that it has none to little beneficial effect though. When we ride we take routes that excercise the full potential of turning. Warming the back tire prevents low siding. It seems rational to me but before you start bashing, educate me why.

Either way, lesson learned.

Peter, I don't think I was bashing. Actually little bashing on this site, but lots of help. Lets assume spinning the rear tire heats it and increases traction. What about the front? Now the rear is hooking when cold it would have slid, but the front isn't warmed. What will the front do on those turns you mentioned? Why wouldnt it slide? That would be like having a sticky tire and a slippery tire on the same bike, something would have to give under hard cornering.

peter330 · May 9th, 2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

wiggle the cable tubing???

For me, the adjuster only screwed in to a certain point in which I had to "wiggle" the tubing to get the adjuster to continue turning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

I don't think I was bashing. Actually little bashing on this site.

I wasn't saying you WERE basging, simply anticipating a flurry of responses of the technicalities of why it was a bad idea.

I understand both your points, both rational. Morale of the story, the risks outweigh the benefits, if any.

Thanks for the input

backinthesaddleagain · May 9th, 2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter330

For me, the adjuster only screwed in to a certain point in which I had to "wiggle" the tubing to get the adjuster to continue turning.

I wasn't saying you WERE basging, simply anticipating a flurry of responses of the technicalities of why it was a bad idea.

I understand both your points, both rational. Morale of the story, the risks outweigh the benefits, if any.

Thanks for the input

Plus the tire will wear more in the middle than the edges and eventually make cornering worse. Of course for most of us the straight miles exceed the twisty miles which does the same thing regarding tire wear, but why speed up the process.

edbro · May 9th, 2010, 10:30 PM

I'm no tire expert, but why not just ride it 15-20 minutes moderately and then ride hard? You'll warm both tires up, not just the rear.

karlosdajackal · May 10th, 2010, 01:12 AM

I think you'll find if you go to a motorbike race or even a car race where tire warmers are banned, nobody does this, they do a warm-up lap, maybe two warm-up laps. The only motor-sport you'll find where this is acceptable involves not turning!

Like others said best case end result is a warm rear, cold front, so you may be less likely to slide the rear, but more likely to unbalance the grip and slide out the front. Anyone with experience of burnouts will tell you if you manage one (even a short one) the 2nd is way, way harder to do because the tire is so warm and sticky that it won't spin. Sure look at the Supersport 1000 race from Monza this weekend, the winner did a burnout or two(after he won), then after that he could not get it spinning again, and you could see him trying, and he had near 200 bhp.

Also different tires have much different operating ranges, he may be running a near track type compound, you may be running a big miles road tire. Your tire probably works quite well when cold, his might not. Making your bike have to work harder. Either way, I'd find a different friend to take advice from

Shano22 · May 10th, 2010, 05:04 AM

Wouldn't spinning the rear tire just warm the middle? So when you corner you thought you warmed you whole tire but just the middle of it and not the sides which was the whole purpose of spinning the tire.

May 9th, 2010, 05:10 PM	#1
peter330 ninjette.org member Name: Peter Location: Toronto Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250r Blue Posts: 32	Clutch friction point Ok guys I did something stupid today. I went for a group ride today and one of my buddies warmed up his tired by skidding his back tires with the front brake in and thought that was a good idea to do before rides on a cold spring day. So after this ride, I tried doing this myself, held the front brake in put some throttle, to the point where the clutch was all the way out with throttle up pretty high 8-9k. I assume there isn't enough torque to do this on the 250 as I got it to spin a few times, but was working the engine way to hard. So I gave up and rode the bike around to make sure I didn't mess anything up. Well unfortunately, I think I did. The clutch engagement point (friction zone) is now much higher almost at the point where the clutch is fully out. I bought this bike used and sorta got use to where it was before which was closer to the middle of the pull. My question is, where is the friction typically suppose to be and how does one adjust it if needed. I apologize I dont have the user manual so any help would be appreciated. Thanks

May 10th, 2010, 01:12 AM	#10
karlosdajackal ninjette.org guru Name: Karl Location: Ireland the Hawaii of Europe! Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Fuel Injected Model 2009 Posts: 357	I think you'll find if you go to a motorbike race or even a car race where tire warmers are banned, nobody does this, they do a warm-up lap, maybe two warm-up laps. The only motor-sport you'll find where this is acceptable involves not turning! Like others said best case end result is a warm rear, cold front, so you may be less likely to slide the rear, but more likely to unbalance the grip and slide out the front. Anyone with experience of burnouts will tell you if you manage one (even a short one) the 2nd is way, way harder to do because the tire is so warm and sticky that it won't spin. Sure look at the Supersport 1000 race from Monza this weekend, the winner did a burnout or two(after he won), then after that he could not get it spinning again, and you could see him trying, and he had near 200 bhp. Also different tires have much different operating ranges, he may be running a near track type compound, you may be running a big miles road tire. Your tire probably works quite well when cold, his might not. Making your bike have to work harder. Either way, I'd find a different friend to take advice from __________________________________________________ My vlogs on Youtube are here

May 10th, 2010, 05:04 AM	#11
Shano22 ninjette.org member Name: Shane Location: Pittsburgh Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawi Ninja 250, 2004 Honda CBR600 F4I, 1999 Yamaha TTR225(dirtbike) Posts: 103	Wouldn't spinning the rear tire just warm the middle? So when you corner you thought you warmed you whole tire but just the middle of it and not the sides which was the whole purpose of spinning the tire. __________________________________________________ Sportbike riding, because activities like football, baseball, and basketball require only one ball.

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May 9th, 2010, 05:46 PM	#2
sofo ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: Vancouver, BC Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 410	I won't get into the technical but it sounds like you might want to check your clutch cable adjustment to start... there are many diys here that detail this. ...but don't feel bad about doing what you did, we all do something stupid for bravado or peer pressure / whatever at times.

May 9th, 2010, 08:09 PM	#3
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	Although I don't recommend what you did, due to clutch wear, tire wear, and potential engine wear, I don't think the friction point was (or should be) near the middle of the clutch lever's travel. As far as your friend warming the rear tire before a cold ride, I don't know what he really thought he would accomplish. Sure racers use tire warmers but thats on both tires, and then race speeds and agressive cornering would keep the tires warm. Burning the rear wouldn't help to warm the front. Also on a cold morning the road is often much colder than the air, even if you did warm both tires, how much of an effect would that have a few minutes later on a cold road?

May 9th, 2010, 09:39 PM	#4
peter330 ninjette.org member Name: Peter Location: Toronto Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250r Blue Posts: 32	thanks for the responses, i adjusted the clutch cable easily enough, who wouldve known you have to wiggle the cable tubing while turning the adjuster, took me the longest time to figure that out. Good thing because I was about to pull out some pliers. Possibly time for some cable lubing. As for the tire warming, yes I know its a stupid thing to do now, especially on the low torque 250. I have to somewhat disagree that it has none to little beneficial effect though. When we ride we take routes that excercise the full potential of turning. Warming the back tire prevents low siding. It seems rational to me but before you start bashing, educate me why. Either way, lesson learned.

May 9th, 2010, 09:55 PM	#5
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	what you did (or tried to do) was (in my book) abuse the bike in order to, ahem , warm up the tire. increased clutch wear, tire wear, possible dumping of the bike, etc... for what?? to warm up the tire before you start pushing it? you might warm up the rear tire, but what about the front using your method? how about doing what everyone else does and ride the bike moderately till engine and tires are properly warmed up and ready to be ridden at the limits? wiggle the cable tubing???

May 9th, 2010, 10:30 PM	#9
edbro ninjette.org member Name: Ed Location: NJ Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 157	I'm no tire expert, but why not just ride it 15-20 minutes moderately and then ride hard? You'll warm both tires up, not just the rear.