Be the first one on your block . . .

[Ram Jet]

https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2018-Ninja-H2-Carbon

Bill

[Triple Jim]

A motorcycle that could only be enjoyed on the race track, yet fits in no class that's raced. Track days only, I guess.

[corksil]

Any idea where this thing is made? The 250r came out of thailand...

It's all about the marketing.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

A motorcycle that could only be enjoyed on the race track, yet fits in no class that's raced. Track days only, I guess.

For another $24,000.00 you can have THIS one. I could barely afford the $1,500.00 for my Ninja. Could this be the Donald Trump model - "Let's Make Kawasaki Great Again"?

https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2018-Ninja-H2R

Bill

[adouglas]

Meh. Doesn't do it for me at all.

The benefit of a machine like this (or a hypercar like, say, the 1,000 hp Bugatti Veyron) is, frankly, conceptual only.

310 hp. That's 60-odd more than a MotoGP bike.

So it's a tour de force in the engine department. So what? That power is utterly useless on the street (hell, my plain-jane GSXR can get me a ticket on any road in first gear, and get me arrested if I really open it up), and frankly not particularly useful on the track either.

At my last track day a guy showed up with an H2 (he must be silly rich, because he ALSO showed up with a BMW S1000RR). I didn't talk to him much, but I did hear him saying that in the corners, you can barely touch the throttle. That's not what I call "usable power."

It's not the basis of any sort of race bike; semi-naked, heavy, won't fit in any class...

Maybe good as a drag bike or a land-speed-record machine. But that seems a shame....

So why would anyone buy it? No, this thing exists for bragging rights only IMHO. It's true purpose is to be owned and appreciated for its uniqueness. Consider it a working mechanical sculpture. As art, it makes sense. As a real-world motorcycle, not so much.

It also sends a message about the Kawasaki brand, just as that $187,000 MotoGP replica Honda built sent a message about that brand. Look what we can do!

[Ralgha]

I'll take two. I'll never have a Ferrari in the garage, this would be a good substitute though.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

I'll take two. I'll never have a Ferrari in the garage, this would be a good substitute though.

I'd rather buy a nice sailboat.

Bill

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by adouglas

It also sends a message about the Kawasaki brand, just as that $187,000 MotoGP replica Honda built sent a message about that brand. Look what we can do!

It also gives the nerds a chance to stretch their legs, as it were. Just like the Raptor. Just like any bicycle company making a $10,000 bicycle (which are too light to be UCI compliant, requiring added weight in order to compete, which is stupid as well). These Halo machines exist for the purpose of "because we can".

I'm okay with that.

I'd still hazard a guess that a pro rider could get a lot out of this machine on a big race track with some time to dial in the suspension to their liking. With the power differential over a GP bike, I'd love to see the comparison back to back.

[Zaph42]

Saw this for sale right in my town.

2015 H2, $9000. Probably a scam. Someone should contact the guy to see how the scam works.

https://appleton.craigslist.org/mcy/...281273756.html

[MLR]

It would be a good Sunday bike for rides in the mountains, and a blast at the drags.

It's a niche bike, and that's a good thing, not everyone tracks their bike, some people just want big hammers.

I would have one in my garage, if the missus would let me spend that much coin on a toy, which she wouldn't.

I will keep pushing my Hyabusa agenda.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by MLR

It would be a good Sunday bike for rides in the mountains.

Would it, though?

Just my $0.02, but I believe that too much power can be unusable in the real world.

Okay, so you crack the throttle just a bit and you're going 100 mph in a few seconds. Whee!

How often? Be honest.

More likely, you run right up against either traffic or the speed limit +30 before you know it. Over and over. Every time you ride.

How quickly would it get old having to hold back all the time?

I feel the frustration riding a bike with considerably less than half the power this thing has.

[MLR]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Would it, though?

Just my $0.02, but I believe that too much power can be unusable in the real world.

Okay, so you crack the throttle just a bit and you're going 100 mph in a few seconds. Whee!

How often? Be honest.

More likely, you run right up against either traffic or the speed limit +30 before you know it. Over and over. Every time you ride.

How quickly would it get old having to hold back all the time?

I feel the frustration riding a bike with considerably less than half the power this thing has.

You could say that for every big bike used on the street, hell, my little ninja can get my licence torn up, same same for my WRX STI.

Should we all be happy with the power of a bikes or cars that just do the speed limits.

That would be boring IMO.

If you have the coin or inclination to buy something like this I say fill your boots, I will be the guy looking at your bike with love in my eye.

["A"]

Three of them combined still cost less than 1/3 of the price of the 2018 model H2.. I have been enjoying these without losing my license.

[DannoXYZ]

Wow! I think Honda XX was one of first production bikes to break 200mph?

One of my friends just got H2. Gotta go check it out. Too bad it weighs so much.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by MLR

Should we all be happy with the power of a bikes or cars that just do the speed limits.

That would be boring IMO.

If you have the coin or inclination to buy something like this I say fill your boots, I will be the guy looking at your bike with love in my eye.

Oh, I agree. I said my bike CAN get me busted easily. That doesn't mean it's not a hoot anyway.

But to be perfectly honest, I found riding the Ninjette to be more rewarding overall because you have to really work the bike to make it perform.

On my 750, it's twist the throttle in any gear and beam me up, Scotty. Sure that's entertaining in itself but on balance... eh. Too easy. I don't even need to downshift. Lazy. No thought or technique required.

A 310 hp bike is that on steroids.

Fun? When I do get to whack it open, sure it's fun. But day after day and mile after mile, it's this....

Link to original page on YouTube.

The Dream:



The Reality:

[CaliGrrl]

ROFL!

I hear guys talk about bikes that you basically never take out of second gear and I wonder why you'd want such a thing. You'd never get a chance to open it up. Well, maybe on the road to Vegas but that's about it.

I'll stick with my little bike. Does enough to have fun. Lightweight, easy in the canyons.

[MLR]

@adouglas, I disagree totally about big bikes not requiring technique.

I can wring the neck of my little 250, it's not going to wheelie, or step out.

If I rode my old gixxers like I ride the ninja I would be dead, full throttle up shifts on the ninja is not a issue, try that on a big bike, I can flat shift all the way to 6th on the little ninja and it just accelerates, a bit, throttle control, clutch, body position and a good amount of judgement was required on the gixxers.

The H2 is an animal of a thing, the bike isn't marketed at peopke who want a cheap bike to ride to work, or a cheap track bike.

It's marketed at people who want an animal and are willing to pay for it, and it's still cheaper than some other bikes that it out performs.

Is it overkill, not if that's what your after, look at all the R1's, Ninja 1000's, BMW 1000RR's and GSXR1000 that you see every day on their way to work.

I though it would have had more love here.

Whilst my little Ninja is a awesome little cheap bike, if I could justify the purchase of a big flashy bike I would get one, unfortunately the minister of war and finances will only let me have one toy, my WRX STI.

I am squirreling away cash to hopefully get a used Hyabusa which has way more power than I could use, she thinks looks ugly, I can play with at the drags, and, importantly, will lay down rubber like a champion, things, that I find, are integral to my spiritual development.

Maybe if I stop buying food for the kids.............................

[adouglas]

@MLR... I think you missed the context. I said that the 250 has to be worked harder in order to get it to perform than a big, powerful bike. A big bike just needs a flick of the wrist. That does not mean there is no technique involved in riding a big bike.

The GSXR is exactly what you said... on the street the technique, as you put it, is in NOT overdoing it. "Ride the GSXR like I ride the ninja and I'd be dead" were your words. In other words, an exercise in holding back. Which is precisely why, in my experience, a big bike can be a bit frustrating in the real world.

On the track... the GSXR's power and refinement make a HUGE difference because you're able to work the bike more. Heck yeah, skill is involved!!!!

Don't get me wrong... I really love my GSXR. I just found the ninjette to be deeply satisfying when I got it singing, in a way that I don't really have the opportunity to experience on the street riding a 750.

Something I noticed when I was first exposed to the track in cars years ago: When you get a vehicle working closer to its limit than usual, it behaves differently. It starts talking to you. It feels different. Bikes are like that too. I think we can agree that the ninjette likes to be ridden hard, and is more fun if you do. The GSXR does, too.

Here's my point: You can get that feeling with the ninjette on the street with every ride. It's a lot harder with the GSXR... unless you really want to get busted or die.



A couple of other points since you brought them up: Body position has nothing to do with size of the bike. A ninjette can corner fast enough to get a knee down just as well as a liter bike and requires just as much attention to body position. More, even, since the rider is a larger portion of the overall mass.

Re judgment... a little bike requires just as much, but it's of a different character. An example:

Here's the reality I encounter almost every time I ride:

I get on the parkway. There are five cars in a conga line in the fast lane. A gap opens in the slow lane that, just maybe, will let me pass all five before running out of room. A gap that would be a real challenge spanning on the Ninjette. I'd have to set it up and get some momentum. I'd have to plan and time it just right. I'd have to downshift to get some acceleration and keep the momentum up. Get in a full tuck to cut drag. I'd be fully engaged, riding as hard as I can.

When on the GSXR, I simply move over, twist and I'm in front of all five cars in a few seconds. Easy, fun for a different reason (a rush of acceleration). But all I had to do was move my right wrist an extra half inch.

Which pass takes more riding skill? Which pass takes more judgment?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

ROFL!

I hear guys talk about bikes that you basically never take out of second gear and I wonder why you'd want such a thing. You'd never get a chance to open it up. Well, maybe on the road to Vegas but that's about it.

I'll stick with my little bike. Does enough to have fun. Lightweight, easy in the canyons.

Well, the fun is there but it's different. Power sure can be addictive. The roll-on acceleration is awesome and a real hoot.

But it's easy. Really easy. Too easy? Maybe. That's my point.

The GSXR and its like have other benefits too. Much sharper handling, AMAZING brakes. Far better suspension. Those are really great. Unfortunately, on the street I'm rarely riding hard or fast enough for any of that to make a marked difference.

I know it'll never happen for economic reasons, but Lord, I'd LOVE a 50-70 hp true sportbike with all the chassis and engine refinement of today's supersports.

["A"]

Over 14 years ago, I picked the block that want to have my house.
Within 10 mile radius, my block has protected open spaces, preserved farm lands, and National park.
Sure housing development and vehicle traffic has been increased within the area since, but I can still find quiet country roads, sparse LEO and entertaining dirt/mt. bike trails just within 5 minutes from my driveway.
Know that you have an area that allow you to operate your vehicle is just as important to choose the vehicle for your block.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by adouglas

@MLR... I think you missed the context. I said that the 250 has to be worked harder in order to get it to perform than a big, powerful bike. A big bike just needs a flick of the wrist. That does not mean there is no technique involved in riding a big bike.

The GSXR is exactly what you said... on the street the technique, as you put it, is in NOT overdoing it. "Ride the GSXR like I ride the ninja and I'd be dead" were your words. In other words, an exercise in holding back. Which is precisely why, in my experience, a big bike can be a bit frustrating in the real world.

On the track... the GSXR's power and refinement make a HUGE difference because you're able to work the bike more. Heck yeah, skill is involved!!!!

Don't get me wrong... I really love my GSXR. I just found the ninjette to be deeply satisfying when I got it singing, in a way that I don't really have the opportunity to experience on the street riding a 750.

Something I noticed when I was first exposed to the track in cars years ago: When you get a vehicle working closer to its limit than usual, it behaves differently. It starts talking to you. It feels different. Bikes are like that too. I think we can agree that the ninjette likes to be ridden hard, and is more fun if you do. The GSXR does, too.

Here's my point: You can get that feeling with the ninjette on the street with every ride. It's a lot harder with the GSXR... unless you really want to get busted or die.



A couple of other points since you brought them up: Body position has nothing to do with size of the bike. A ninjette can corner fast enough to get a knee down just as well as a liter bike and requires just as much attention to body position. More, even, since the rider is a larger portion of the overall mass.

Re judgment... a little bike requires just as much, but it's of a different character. An example:

Here's the reality I encounter almost every time I ride:

I get on the parkway. There are five cars in a conga line in the fast lane. A gap opens in the slow lane that, just maybe, will let me pass all five before running out of room. A gap that would be a real challenge spanning on the Ninjette. I'd have to set it up and get some momentum. I'd have to plan and time it just right. I'd have to downshift to get some acceleration and keep the momentum up. Get in a full tuck to cut drag. I'd be fully engaged, riding as hard as I can.

When on the GSXR, I simply move over, twist and I'm in front of all five cars in a few seconds. Easy, fun for a different reason (a rush of acceleration). But all I had to do was move my right wrist an extra half inch.

Which pass takes more riding skill? Which pass takes more judgment?

Brother, with all due respect, passing on the right on an expressway will get you a reservation for a fitting for a nice pine box. You have no way of knowing that one of the five cars in the high speed lane is going to do the right thing and move to the right or slower lane. Personal experience. I was in my car in the center lane of a three lane expressway. I was rolling along in kind of a "pokey" fashion and decided to move further right to allow faster vehicles to move on by me. I looked in my mirror and it was clear so I hit my turn signal and began to pull to the right. I started to pull into the right hand lane and as I was turning the steering wheel I glanced over my right shoulder. Sure as **** on your shirt tails some speed junkie on a crotch rocket was doing your brand of pass on the right and I would guess traveling at 80-90M.P.H. Had I not looked over my shoulder at the last minute it would have been a very bad day for both myself and the biker.

Please reconsider this particular passing maneuver. Besides, if it doesn't get you your last rights it might get you a traffic ticket.

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Not looking over shoulder before changing lanes will get you creamed on the left OR right side. Drivers are so bad with lane discipline, it doesn't really matter.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Not looking over shoulder before changing lanes will get you creamed on the left OR right side. Drivers are so bad with lane discipline, it doesn't really matter.

Say what you will about CA. drivers, ride in Boston and you'll think your in the middle of the movie set for "Gone in Sixty Seconds".

Bill

[MLR]

I find controlling a powerful bike much more engaging that wringing the the neck of a smaller bike.

IMO body position has everything to do with putting power down, whether it is laying some rubber down on a exit or launching the bike at the drags.

Anyways, horses for courses.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by "A"

Over 14 years ago, I picked the block that want to have my house.
Within 10 mile radius, my block has protected open spaces, preserved farm lands, and National park.

Your profile says you're in IT. Italy?

["A"]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Your profile says you're in IT. Italy?

Sometimes.

[adouglas]

Link to original page on YouTube.

Kudos to the rider for not losing it.

This appears to be a speed run on a track... IMHO perfect use for the bike, perfect opportunity to let it rip.... literally, in this case!

[adouglas]

And then there's this...

Yeah, I know, it's not the bike. It's the rider.

I will say the thing makes a lovely noise....

Link to original page on YouTube.

[adouglas]

You're right, of course, but a little context...

The road in question is Connecticut's Merritt Parkway, a 1930s-era, two-lane-in-each-direction road. Most definitely not the massive, multilane Interstate scrimmage where you get cars diving from one edge all the way to the other.

Passing on the right is illegal but absolutely routine on this road. Expected. Cops ignore it.

But it's also about relative speed. That's where the judgment part comes in.

Side note: Drivers around here often engage in what a high school friend once dubbed the "double d*uchebag syndrome." Car in slow lane driving about the speed limit, car in the passing lane either moving ahead at +0.1 mph or keeping pace, while a long line stacks up behind. That's what results in those freight trains.

Often, if I get the opportunity to pass the car at the head of the line, I'll politely gesture and suggest they move over once I'm in front of them. Surprisingly often, it works. They're just clueless.

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

Brother, with all due respect, passing on the right on an expressway will get you a reservation for a fitting for a nice pine box. You have no way of knowing that one of the five cars in the high speed lane is going to do the right thing and move to the right or slower lane. Personal experience. I was in my car in the center lane of a three lane expressway. I was rolling along in kind of a "pokey" fashion and decided to move further right to allow faster vehicles to move on by me. I looked in my mirror and it was clear so I hit my turn signal and began to pull to the right. I started to pull into the right hand lane and as I was turning the steering wheel I glanced over my right shoulder. Sure as **** on your shirt tails some speed junkie on a crotch rocket was doing your brand of pass on the right and I would guess traveling at 80-90M.P.H. Had I not looked over my shoulder at the last minute it would have been a very bad day for both myself and the biker.

Please reconsider this particular passing maneuver. Besides, if it doesn't get you your last rights it might get you a traffic ticket.

Bill

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

Saw this for sale right in my town.

2015 H2, $9000. Probably a scam. Someone should contact the guy to see how the scam works.

https://appleton.craigslist.org/mcy/...281273756.html

Definitely a scam. I've ran into so many to good to be true ads. Earlier in the summer I emailed a "woman" about a 2016 CBR600 for $1500 I asked what was wrong with it she said perfect condition and asked for my phone number and that she just needed to sell it because her husband died and she needed the money to get back to her country. Seemed completely legit

[DannoXYZ]

Yesterday on CL, I saw 2013 Ninja 300 ABS with 1200 miles on clocks for $500. It had been laid down and needed handlebars, brake & clutch levers, left rearset and shift-linkage. Fairings were scratched, but not broken. Got address and went over right away. As I pulled up, it was being loaded up on trailer by someone who got there just 5-minutes before me!!!

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Link to original page on YouTube.

Kudos to the rider for not losing it.

This appears to be a speed run on a track... IMHO perfect use for the bike, perfect opportunity to let it rip.... literally, in this case!

I wonder what the round gauge is for. Intake boost pressure? 188 M.P.H would make me nervous. I don't normally but I would be wearing a well padded leather one piece suit and gloves. Whew!!!

Bill

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by MLR

I find controlling a powerful bike much more engaging that wringing the the neck of a smaller bike.

IMO body position has everything to do with putting power down, whether it is laying some rubber down on a exit or launching the bike at the drags.

Anyways, horses for courses.

Horses for courses... yep.

The original context for all of this is the utility of a 310 hp motorcycle in actual, real-world street riding, something I think is getting lost in the discussion. I'm not against big, powerful bikes. I ride a supersport, after all. They're wonderful as mechanical art and engineering showcases. I just think that all that excess power isn't all that useful out here in the real world.

If I may borrow your phrasing...

IMO body position has little if anything to do with putting power down at realistic street speeds, whether it is merging into the flow of traffic at an exit [sic... entrance ramp?] or pulling away from a stoplight.


Some of those chiming in here might be popping wheelies, getting the rear to step out in corners and laying down rubber on the street... all examples cited in this thread about why you'd want an enormously powerful motorcycle. If that's your deal, then yeah.... moar powah all day long. Too much is never enough. See video clips above and vaya con Dios. May you live to ride another day.

It should come as no surprise that I choose not to ride that way on public roads even though I ride a bike that can do all of that.

So as you say... my "course" is riding at 15-20 mph over the limit most of the time and only occasionally faster than that, never dragging knee on the street, never doing showy stunts like burnouts, wheelies or stoppies. My "horse," even though it's just a middlweight, is serious overkill for my preferred brand of riding.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I wonder what the round gauge is for. Intake boost pressure? 188 M.P.H would make me nervous. I don't normally but I would be wearing a well padded leather one piece suit and gloves. Whew!!!

Bill

Yeah, probably boost/vacuum gauge. Wonder what happened?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Yeah, probably boost/vacuum gauge. Wonder what happened?

Video comments say a conrod snapped.

kerblammo......

Link to original page on YouTube.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Video comments say a conrod snapped.

kerblammo......

Ouch! I had that happen at Laguna Seca once! Good thing I was in a roll-cage just in case...

Link to original page on YouTube.

[adouglas]

Yikes!

[MLR]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Horses for courses... yep.

The original context for all of this is the utility of a 310 hp motorcycle in actual, real-world street riding, something I think is getting lost in the discussion. I'm not against big, powerful bikes. I ride a supersport, after all. They're wonderful as mechanical art and engineering showcases. I just think that all that excess power isn't all that useful out here in the real world.

If I may borrow your phrasing...

IMO body position has little if anything to do with putting power down at realistic street speeds, whether it is merging into the flow of traffic at an exit [sic... entrance ramp?] or pulling away from a stoplight.


Some of those chiming in here might be popping wheelies, getting the rear to step out in corners and laying down rubber on the street... all examples cited in this thread about why you'd want an enormously powerful motorcycle. If that's your deal, then yeah.... moar powah all day long. Too much is never enough. See video clips above and vaya con Dios. May you live to ride another day.

It should come as no surprise that I choose not to ride that way on public roads even though I ride a bike that can do all of that.

So as you say... my "course" is riding at 15-20 mph over the limit most of the time and only occasionally faster than that, never dragging knee on the street, never doing showy stunts like burnouts, wheelies or stoppies. My "horse," even though it's just a middlweight, is serious overkill for my preferred brand of riding.

I acknowledge you think the bike is overkill.

I didnt chim in with wheelies or stoppies, I did talk about drags and laying rubber, if you feel that is wrong so be it, Im not a fan of speeding on the street, you say you do, so be it, I dont really care what you do.

As for the context of the OP, it was a link, I commented on the link, my comments are different to yours, thats life.

If you dont like my point of view, so be it.

Luckly everyone is different and have their own point of view on riding styles and requirments and to what they consider safe and fun.

Do a skid.....

[DannoXYZ]

I have mixed and conflicting views on this. On one hand, I love to have all freedoms possible and being able to use such extreme bikes to their utmost capabilities. And I take measures to do it safely and not injure myself or others.

But there's also a tonne of others that do not and cause horrible injuries and deaths to innocent bystanders.

I don't want to curtail fun and excitement, but don't want wanton anarchy either. In our litigious culture, there's always someone else at fault. Unfortunately, a lot of freedoms have been taken away in CYA type preventative measures...

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by MLR

I acknowledge you think the bike is overkill.

I didnt chim in with wheelies or stoppies, I did talk about drags and laying rubber, if you feel that is wrong so be it, Im not a fan of speeding on the street, you say you do, so be it, I dont really care what you do.

As for the context of the OP, it was a link, I commented on the link, my comments are different to yours, thats life.

If you dont like my point of view, so be it.

Luckly everyone is different and have their own point of view on riding styles and requirments and to what they consider safe and fun.

Do a skid.....

"You are right from your side and I am right from mine,
We're both just one too many mornin's
And a thousand miles behind."
Bob Dylan

Bill