Proton Flush mounts 08-09 Specific

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

i have carefully calculated your feng shui...June 16th is a good day to do it LOL

hahaha I will be back in class by then. Latest would be the second week of May hahah

I don't even have the lights yet so... yeah, th3 gh3y

[Sloppy2nds]

John, its a good thing you had your front and rears switched out before I did. Would have been another PITA if I started installing rear LEDs and had to stop to make/add these diodes to the circuit. Thanks for the writeup.

[randomwalk101]

Anyone else got them in and installed? Any other feedback& review or opinion?? Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rynownd]

Ok, got them installed.

They are definitely well made, but the I would only give the fitment a 7/10. They don't fit quite perfectly... at least not on my bike. They are super bright though! I will get some flashing pics eventually.

So, I decided to try the lights without diodes. And maybe those will solve my problem. As of right now, when I turn the signal on, all four of my signals flash at varying rates. So essentially my signals are useless... again. Keep in mind I have LEDs with resistors in the rear. Lastly, I tried that flasher/relay on page two, and it works great, but doesn't stop all the lights from flashing. I have run out of time to keep trying stuff, so I won't be able to try using any potential comments you guys may have to fix them...

Anyway, here are some pics:

[JaeL]

i dig!

[Sound Wave]

looks great!! could you show a pic of the area that "(doesn't) fit quite perfectly"? thanks.

[randomwalk101]

Looks great but it looks like it's not too visible from the front like the cbr. Perhaps it's the angle of the fairing. Nice job though.
Posted via Mobile Device

[miks]

That looks great.

[Sloppy2nds]

Ryne,
Did you mount them like I posted? Mine fit perfectly.

[Rynownd]

I'm pretty sure I mounted them properly, Sloppy. As for pictures of the somewhat poor fitment, those will have to wait. It is raining here... again. I rode to my soccer game and it started pouring while we were playing. So, I just got back from my first rain ride! ...It sucked ass

OK, so for these diodes. The single wire goes to the dash indicator light and the 2 wires go... where? Spliced into the actual indicator (+) wires?

[Cochese]

Got a set on the way!

[Mike_HTS]

Hi guys,

I am Mike from HighTechSpeed.

I just wanted to sign on and address a couple questions. I am not here to spam you

First, thanks for the orders - it is much appreciated. Nate @ New Enough and one of our dealers in Australia were telling me "you have to make these for the 250R, so many want them!", so we did. Glad they were well received.

So just to address a couple questions/comments

1) The Proton lights do not have "built in resistors". They have a microcontroller chip that monitors the flash speed, and if it is too fast (or too slow), it will slow the blink speed of the Proton lights. This won't fix "fast flash" that occurs from using LED signals.

The reason we don't include resistors, is that the LEDs we use are pretty high power LED's. People think LED's don't get hot, but they actually do... we are at the limit of the thermal capability of the Proton light, so to include a ginormous resistor in there would push it way over the edge. External resistors are feasible, but clunky... they get hot, they are a pain to mount.

IMO, the best solution is an electronic flasher. Instead of just adding load (and wasted power) like resistors do, they actually cure the problem, rather than address the symptoms.

2) Why we don't include resistors or a flasher. Resistors are cheap and easy... we could include them but I dislike that solution. I know people who had them overheat and melt their plastic, or who had them short out and blow fuses. They are OK but not the best solution.

As for not including a flasher, the answer is because there are lots of companies in China making hundreds of millions of flasher relays, and because of this you can always get it cheaper locally than I could ever hope to sell them for.


3) Connectors. We don't include the OEM connectors for two reasons. First, it would mean a lot of extra stuff we need to do - having the crimping tools, keeping track of the various connectors, etc. The other (and real) problem is some bikes use proprietary connectors that they don't sell, and while there are a few companies that knock them off, it is a gray area. I recommend cutting the wires from the OEM signal, so this still gives you the plug/unplug functionality when you remove the fairing.

4) Waterproofing. They are totally sealed. The front is CNC machined from solid acrylic, then the board is inserted and the cavity is filled with epoxy. Proton lights laugh at water

5) Price. I know they aren't cheap... and I don't want to sound flippant, but "quality costs money" - it's true. If you compare with a $40 signal, the manufacturer probably sells that to a wholesaler for $15... and they want to make money, so there may be $5 of parts in the pair, probably less.

We use solid acrylic and machine it to a fitted shape. Each pair probably takes 20-30 minutes on the CNC machine to make. The LED's are high-power 5-lumen (per LED) units, and there are 12 per flushmount. There are also 2 microcontrollers, two constant-current LED drivers, various other parts to keep them running for life, etc. We probably have more $$$ in parts in the Proton lights than the MSRP of the $40 flushmounts. I would say any of the high-end flushmounts that is probably the case.

You also have to figure that if the price on any of the high ends units was, lets say $60, that means $40 worth of "stuff" has to be taken out of the product. The middlemen wouldn't eat that $40, so it comes out in the form of cheaper parts and such.

I am very sensitive to the price issue, so we try to keep the value high with high brightness (~60 lumens per flushmount), running lights, programmable patterns, etc.

6) Fitment. On the 250R there is a left and right, so be sure they are installed in the corresponding side. The fairings on bikes are not super precise, there is a pretty wide tolerance, so you sort of have to decide how much to push the close-fit issue. On the 250R, we have a slight lip around the bottom which makes it fit into the fairing and stay in place. I can post a pic of how they should fit and look, if anyone is interested, and that way if anyone has them in wrong, you could see how they should be. The fairing hole on the 250R is very deep (and hence, very tapered), so rather than coming up with a spacer (which we tried but seemed hokey), we added a slight lip at the front.


Hope this answers the questions, if anyone has any others, definitely feel free to get in touch, email is best since I am usually pretty busy at work and don't get a lot of chances to come to the forums.



Hey so how are you guys enjoying these bikes? It seems they are very hot for '09. I was actually hoping to get one as a "shop bike" to modify and use for projects, but all the Kawi dealers around here are super sticklers on charging over MSRP, so I just passed. I think it is a hot looking bike though, and I can imagine how well it handles.

Ok, it's Friday @ 5:30pm, got a few hours of maching left to do before I head out, so I better get going on it Cheers!

Mike

[Mike_HTS]

Oh, and a little fun fact...

the amount of power you save going with Proton lights (or any LED's really) in place of a 35W bulb signal, comes out to about 0.005 horsepower.

So the next time someone says "yeah they LOOK nice but they don't make you go faster", you can say... "actually, they DO!".

Have a great weekend folks!

[Rynownd]

Thanks for posting Mike. Im pretty sure I talked to you on the phone, you were very helpful to me and now very helpful to everyone. Reps for you guys!

As for me giving it a mediocre fitment rating, that probably came form me mounting them on the wrong sides.

Random, I'm gonna be hittin' you up for some more info on those diodes in the next week or so. School is almost over and I will have nothing to do but play with my toy!

[Mike_HTS]

Originally Posted by Rynownd

Thanks for posting Mike. Im pretty sure I talked to you on the phone, you were very helpful to me and now very helpful to everyone. Reps for you guys!

As for me giving it a mediocre fitment rating, that probably came form me mounting them on the wrong sides.

Random, I'm gonna be hittin' you up for some more info on those diodes in the next week or so. School is almost over and I will have nothing to do but play with my toy!

I remember talking to you, glad to be of help.

One other question I forgot to address was why we don't do them in other colors. We machine them from solid acrylic, and as such the acrylic varies in thickness on the finished product. It's "dome shaped" and in the center of the dome it is a lot thicker than at the edges. Tinted acrylic has the color mixed into the material, not just on the surface, so the thicker it is, the darker it is. We tried some smoke colored acrylic, and it was dark in the center, and light around the outside. Looked like crap to be honest.

A company called Testors makes tint paint. It is made for tinting the windows of RC cars. It is cheap, something like $4 a can. Each coat you spray on makes the part one shade darker. It works really well, I used it for some prototype lenses for a digital gauge just a few weeks ago.

They make the tint paint in smoke/gray color as well as different candy colors. I've had people tint the lenses to match the color of their bike.

Just bear in mind that any tint applied will reduce the light output, especially colored tint - not a whole lot of amber light will pass through a blue tinted lens, for example.




If you guys have any electronics questions in general, I mean stuff that is unrelated to our products, feel free to PM me or shoot me an email and I will be happy to help. I know a lot of times electronics and wiring is like a black art to people who don't do it for a living, and I know bike shops charge $$$$ for their work, so if anyone has any questions on anything so they can do it themselves, hit me up and I am happy to help however I can.

Cheers
Mike

[Buffalony]

This display of service and professionalism pushed me into ordering a pair.

[randomwalk101]

Is the 250's Photon has running light? It'd be real nice if it incorporates the superbright leds like that of the new Watson design...like this one.
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=139006

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by Rynownd

Thanks for the info! I totally know what you're saying. I've been reading a lot about this lately, not to mention it's a pretty big part of my studies for the MS degree.

I went out and bought a flasher. I just bought the first 2 pin one I saw... so I'm not totally sure it will work, but I was bored and needed some where to ride. I'll compare it to the stock one before I open the package so I can take it back if I need.

Protons will be here no later that Saturday, so I'll find out if all this works soon.

Here is a picture of it:


If you can't read it, it says: FL32, Electronic Flasher, Truck and RV, Variable Load, HEAVY DUTY

Anyone have a definative answer as to whether or not this flasher idea works?

I'm a little nervous right now as I have the BikeLitez rear LEDs integrated with the rear fender.



They are installed using resistors. The Protons don't have resistors so I'm contemplating re-wiring the rears to eliminate the shop installed resistors...

I need to know which flasher to buy.

I'll chip in for the hookers and cocaine if someone pens a DIY for this!

[Rynownd]

Ok, I have LED rears and the Proton fronts. Currently using resistors but also tried the flasher. The flasher and the resistors did NOT work for my setup. As is, when I select a direction for signals, ALL THE LIGHTS FLASH.

The flasher pictured above DOES WORK for just the LED rears in place of resistors, but as I said, doesn't solve the "all lights flash" problem with the Protons AND LED rears.

[Sloppy2nds]

The last two questions have already been answered on post 76 of this thread by Randomwalk. If you have LEDs on front and rear you have to add diodes no other way around this.

[novak2k9]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

oh you're right...the info was on the other forum..not this one Opps, my bad.

Anyways, that elec relay is okay for 2 LED signals. But in order to have four LEDs, you need to add a couple of diodes to the bulb/signal indicator. Kawi (and some others like Aprila) combines both right/left signals into one...so you need to put the diodes in to prevent backflows. This is true with the case of putting four LEDs in, when you hit the signal, all four signals will light up solid. Diodes solves this issues...Elec flasher corrects the flashing rate.
Yes, resistors will do but will heat up if you forget to turn off the signals..may cause wires or plastic to melt. Heat will eventually kills the resistors too...not the best route.

Okay my bike is torn apart, and experience the flashing on all led's. Protons on front, led rear. First time I heard about this diode fix and have a few questions.

I'm not familiar with electronics, so is it just any diode? Checking Radio Shack I see various amps...switching diodes, etc. type of diodes.

I don't have my service manual yet, so how many diodes total for all for led lights? I'm not sure of the routing. So for left turn signal, it's 2 diodes in between 2 wires that are cut originaly going to the bulb? So from there, are the 2 wires split off to each the left front and left rear led. So just 4 diodes total (2 left, 2 right) to run all 4 led's?

sorry for confusion, it will be easier once i can tear into the dash tomorrow...which is another question..we have to remove the whole top dash right?

[NJD022588]

I only have LED rear turn signals and all I did was replace the stock flasher relay with an electronic flasher (which you can buy at most auto parts stores). I just plugged in the new one, and everything flashed perfectly.

I think there is at least one person on this board that has LEDs for all 4 turn signals and all they did was use an electronic flasher relay (no resistors or diodes).

Does the electronic flasher work for 4 LED signals?

[novak2k9]

Originally Posted by NJD022588

I only have LED rear turn signals and all I did was replace the stock flasher relay with an electronic flasher (which you can buy at most auto parts stores). I just plugged in the new one, and everything flashed perfectly.

I think there is at least one person on this board that has LEDs for all 4 turn signals and all they did was use an electronic flasher relay (no resistors or diodes).

Does the electronic flasher work for 4 LED signals?

oops I forgot to specify I already switched the relay out. I used a Motrax Flash It picked up at cycle gear
http://www.motrax.co.uk/index.php?mo...uct&id_prd=162

it worked fine with the 2 front protons and stock rears in correcting flash rate. It did limit the strobe back to normal flash though.

As for 4 led setup, i couldn't test because one of the rear led lights didn't work. When I return from the store for exchange later i'll hook them up to test. Eventually I'll do Rynownd's mod, it looks very good but until then I want to make sure all lights function properly.

but according to post 76 of this thread, with 4 led's, we need diodes so i'll get a bunch of those too. I think we just need 4 diodes, 2 for each side (turn signal indicator). I'll update later

[Buffalony]

It would be nice if one of you electrical guru's here would compile all this info into a one stop LED DIY. Anyone?

[novak2k9]

Okay update

Got the new led's, installed them. ALL lights flash when turn signal is on. This means I need to install diodes and the electronic relay doesn't fix this, just the flash rate.

So I review the instructions from post 76, and it describes to solder 2 diodes to one wire to indicator light, and 2 wires from diode ends to wires going to socket(s). Now a little confusion here...what 2 wires?? I can understand possible one wire being the green one from light, but what 2nd wire? Also I didn't know what voltage of diodes to buy at Fry's electronics. I bought 4 diodes of 12 volt 1 watt, this good? We only need to use 2 diodes?

Please see all pics, I took photos of under the dash with complete notes. I drew an illustration of what maybe we need to do, I don't know if this is correct. The wires are colored to exact ones on the bike. Sorry but i can't update any more info since I have the bike at my parent's garage and I don't live there. I won't be able to work on it until next weekend, but and idea of what to do would help me and the others.

Anyone that installed 4 leds lights to the 250 please let us know what wires you connected. A drawing of full connection would help good, i did mine in photoshop but just plain paint will do.

This project i thought would be cake compared to putting sliders on last week hasn't been haha...and just bought the 2008 2 weeks ago. Would like to get this going and put back together...pieces everywhere. Thanks for any help and i hope the photos will help others

[novak2k9]

My bike is disarray haha...
for being mechanically inept so far i think these things are fairly easy to work on.

If anyone needs the service manual to this bike or others, check out this store on ebay
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/MANUAL-WIZARD__W0QQ_armrsZ1

I got the service manual for about $36 shipped free within 3 days. It's a good quality manual and so far has shown how to destroy i mean tear down my bike appropriately How sad though I haven't even ridden it yet...but not until i learn how to ride, get insurance and make sure them sliders were on!

[NJD022588]

From another thread:

Originally Posted by NJD022588

If you keep the stock front turn signals, all you need to do is replace the flasher relay. If you go with LEDs for all 4 turn signals, you need to do more than just replace the flasher relay (and I'm not sure what it is that you have to do ).

Originally Posted by Bikemonkey

We sell the Acumen LED Universal Relay and it handles 1-100 LED's. Just makes sure you buy a relay that has a similair spec.

I used the information I learned in this thread and was told that if you have the correct flasher relay everything should work fine.

Now, which is correct?

[novak2k9]

I don't know about that acumen relay. I do know the the light wires are tied together running front/rear right, front/rear left so I think this has more to do with powerflow in the lines. The flasher relay will only control flash rate sync. Without the electric relay, the protons flash good but the rears stay on. Replacing the relay allowed them to flash equally, but the protons are dumbed down to normal flash rate.
The electronic flasher works fine if you're only using 2 leds, but to have 4 leds he said we need diodes.

The diodes I read are to stop the power from flowing back up the line and causing the other side lights to flash. I posted this on another forum and someone replied with an answer specifying my drawing is correct.

I need to attach the 2 diodes to the green and gray wire before socket (which goes to left and right side of bike) and then solder it to the green wire. Post 76 said any wire, so I guess we could attach to the gray one on the indicator light as well.

here is link
http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/fo...ml#post1621906

Any other help is appreciated, i'm not sure if this will work and I won't be able to test until Sunday.

Hopefully Rynowned can confirm the diode placement in my pics/drawing, or someone else that installed 4 leds.

[novak2k9]

sorry been busy but last week all is working fine now.

With 4 led lights just use a electrical flasher, easier.
Wiring is correct, to get 4 led's to work on this bike you need to get under the dash and solder the 2 diodes from one side of turn signal to the positives of each side of bike before socket connector. (for my 2008 250, green and gray wire). All was working fine but noticed my turn signal indicator light not flashing, this is because you need to connect the other wire from turn indicator (my case, gray wire) to ground.

see pic of wiring after completion

attached is a pic of both the proton left side and rear led captured when both flashed on, the led's are much brighter than stock and worth the mod. Bike is still torn apart, hence both fairings on one side so I have room to walk

bought from ebay some integrated clear led turn signals in mirrors so will be installing those tomorrow, so total 6 led turn lights and all tinted out. Tuesday the smoked led strips arrive to do the Rynownd mod.

[randomwalk101]

Protons are nice but wait for Watsen... It's 10x brighter.
www.watsendesign.com

[Hokie11]

i put on these protons on my 09 a few weeks ago.. LOVE THEM.. only thing needed was the relay which i picked up for 10 at autozone. great product!!

[Momaru]

I dunno, Watsen doesn't seem very interested in Kawasaki. I don't see any flashers on their site compatible with Kawa bikes made since Dick Cheney had his little shooting 'accident' (2006).

[noche_caliente]

I am so close to getting these....

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by jeffwessel

They look really nice, but I don't think I could spend $100 on them.

+1

almost turned me from my stockers.

[Mike_HTS]

Hi guys,

I got a PM about this and saw there was some confusion, so let me try to add some info that will hopefully help.

Regarding diodes... an electronic flasher should flash fine with any number of LED's or bulbs, provided the total wattage is within spec of the flasher.

I've seen some electronic flashers sold as "heavy duty flashers" (used for people who add more blinkers when towing a trailer, for example) that have a minimum wattage requirement. If you run less wattage through such a flasher than the minimum, you will likely get unpredictable results (like both sides coming on when you hit one blinker, etc).

The reason diodes are sometimes required is a not-very-well-thought out design on some turn signals. If you have an LED signal and you want it to have two intensity levels, there are a few ways to accomplish this. On a dual intensity LED signal, you have three wires going in - running light, blinker, and ground.

The "wrong" way to make the signal is just to put a resistor on the running light wire. It will work, but what happens is that when you hit your running light, you also have 12 volts (but at low current) on your blinker wire. The current isn't enough to light up a bulb, but it's enough to turn on an LED in many cases, and definitely enough to screw up an electronic flasher relay. The way it's supposed to work is the blinker has 0 volts on it until the rider hits the turn signal, than it should go from 0 to 12 volts about once a second.

Back in the day, before LED's were popular, a few people making LED signals just put a resistor on the running light wire of their LED signal and it worked. From the customers perspective, the problem lies with the signals that are coming on when they shouldn't, even though the problem originates at the signal that looks like it's working OK.

Using a resistor to control running light brightness is acceptable, but the manufacturer of the light should be putting a diode on the blinker wire coming out of the signal to prevent power flowing back out of the signal to other lights. It's the neighborly thing to do

I would guess that the people who have had issues with 4 LED signals are probably using LED signals with running lights, and those signals don't have diodes installed and are therefore leaking out power on the blinker wire. I've seen it before, although it's less common these days.

If that is the case, the simple fix is a couple of diodes. A diode has a ring around one end of the case. That means the diode lets power flow from the end without the ring, and out of the end with the ring. But it won't let power flow the other way. It's like a one-way valve. So if you install a diode on the blinker wire of each of the offending signals, with the ring side installed towards the signal, and the other end installed to the bikes wiring, this will let power from the circuit flow into the LED signal though the diode, but will prevent power flowing back out of the signal and into the turn signal circuit, screwing up other things (like other LED signals or flasher relays).

As for what diodes to use, 12 volts is nothing to a diode, so almost any diode should support this voltage. The more important one is the current. It just needs a current rating higher than the signals it's connected to. Most of the fat black diodes you get at Radio Shack (like a 1N4001 or 1N4004) will be maybe 1 amp or 5 amps. 5 amps is more than enough, 1 amp should be OK for most LED signals too.

Hope this answers a bit of the mystery.

Thanks
Mike

[welcome2thedawn]

i think my question has been answered...but i want to make sure i get the right thing...i have read this entire thread...as well as the how to wire the diode and the bike monkey thread....i did SEARCH here, google, and some other forums...and called cycle gear...so...my question, which i think was answered above...i should get a 5 amp diode??? and i can get this at radio shack? and yes...i already changed my flasher relay...thank you

[randomwalk101]

dawn, 5amp is fine...any 12 volts diode is fine..you'll need two.

[headshrink]

So just to clarify.... when the Proton people say their unit is plug-n-play because their circuitry takes care of it all, they are on crack?

[silver_bullet]

They're saying that you need to add something to maintain the stock flash rate. I have all LED blinkers on my Yamaha and used a relay. Quick and easy, 5 second install. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LED-M...Q5fAccessories

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by silver_bullet

They're saying that you need to add something to maintain the stock flash rate. I have all LED blinkers on my Yamaha and used a relay. Quick and easy, 5 second install. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LED-M...Q5fAccessories

Yes, I know that in general, but what I meant by "they" is the proton makers who claim you don't need to add anything else.