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Old April 21st, 2019, 03:56 PM   #1
Sig99
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Angry HELP! 06 250r no spark i need advice

hey guys. new to the forums. so i have no spark. i just bought the bike non running (due to hole in gas tank). but when i checked it out, i hooked a jump pack to it, sprayed some starter fluid, and it fired up and idled for a few seconds. so it had spark, and then i brought it home, and then it has no spark. the coils get hot, the cdi gets warm too, but i made a rookie mistake and hooked the battery up backwards today, blew the fuse, jumped it with a paperclip, and then saw the paper clip start to glow red hot and instantly i unplugged it and discovered the battery was installed incorrectly by myself. also, MAJOR thing is the bike sat outside. uncovered, and when i got home i noticed the cdi box hanging so i was going to zip tie it up but when i picked it up water was inside. i shook it around to get it out, but wondering if maybe thats what blew? i need anyones tips or help here, im desperate. there is no spark at either spark plug but again the cdi (igniter box) gets warm and so does the coils.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 04:52 PM   #2
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Hi and welcome to Ninjette! What year is your 250?

You should slow down and do one thing at a time and do it correctly. Otherwise you may be replacing a lot of blown up parts.

1. Remove battery from bike and put on trickle charger for 2-3 days. Check acid level and top off with distilled water as necessary. In meantime...

2. Make coloured decals for battery terminals and battery cables. Make + red and - black. Or buy them from here. Apply to battery and battery cables

3. Pull every fuse and measure resistance across legs of each one. Post results here. Such as:

main fuse = ??? Ohms
fuse #1 = ??? Ohms
fuse #2 = ??? Ohms
etc...

4. With key ON + kill-switch ON, measure resistance between each RED terminal at each coil and +battery cable

5. Drain all petrol from tank and carbs. Replace with fresh petrol.

6. After couple days, measure voltage of battery and post here


With all of his data gathered, we can then come up with step-by-step plan to get your bike running. Might require thorough carb refurb, and possibly replacing CDI box, coils, switches and/or entire harness (depending upon how much was melted).
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Old April 21st, 2019, 05:15 PM   #3
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Hi and welcome to Ninjette! What year is your 250?

You should slow down and do one thing at a time and do it correctly. Otherwise you may be replacing a lot of blown up parts.

1. Remove battery from bike and put on trickle charger for 2-3 days. Check acid level and top off with distilled water as necessary. In meantime...

2. Make coloured decals for battery terminals and battery cables. Make + red and - black. Or buy them from here. Apply to battery and battery cables

3. Pull every fuse and measure resistance across legs of each one. Post results here. Such as:

main fuse = ??? Ohms
fuse #1 = ??? Ohms
fuse #2 = ??? Ohms
etc...

4. With key ON + kill-switch ON, measure resistance between each RED terminal at each coil and +battery cable

5. Drain all petrol from tank and carbs. Replace with fresh petrol.

6. After couple days, measure voltage of battery and post here


With all of his data gathered, we can then come up with step-by-step plan to get your bike running. Might require thorough carb refurb, and possibly replacing CDI box, coils, switches and/or entire harness (depending upon how much was melted).

thanks for the reply, the bike is a 2006. what exact tool do i need to measure the ohms and voltages properly? ill have to pick one up. carbs are clean and tank is too. already marked the positive cable with a red cap i had from a previous bike. when i paperclipped the main 30 amp fuse, i was very quick to disconnect it. when i say very quick, i mean within 2 seconds. is there any chance i fried both coils or the cdi? ignitioin fuse is good, and again coils get warm when attempting to start. link me to the tools i need to get you the data you asked for?

Edit: upon research i found that the cdi is 40$, full harness is 40$, and the coil packs are 40$. i feel comfortable with replacing them myself here in the garage, so how do i know whats bad and where its bad? dont want to replace all 3 if not needed obviously. so ill get a multi meter. but ill need step by step for which settings to switch the multimeter to. im not to familiar with electronics, but im a quick learner. have a link to a good one?

thank you,

Simon
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Old April 21st, 2019, 07:32 PM   #4
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Since we’re not building spaceships (yes, I’ve worked for NASA), any basic multimeter from Harbour Freight will do. Check this site for coupons: http://hfqpdb.com

Here’s video on how to use multimeter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLkPtmnglOI

7. Disconnect input and output wires from both coils and measure resistance:

- between 2 input terminals, should be 2.1-3.2 ohms
- between spark-plug wire output terminal and coil mounting-bolt, should be 10-16k ohms

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; April 21st, 2019 at 08:50 PM.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 04:05 AM   #5
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Since we’re not building spaceships (yes, I’ve worked for NASA), any basic multimeter from Harbour Freight will do. Check this site for coupons: http://hfqpdb.com

Here’s video on how to use multimeter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLkPtmnglOI

7. Disconnect input and output wires from both coils and measure resistance:

- between 2 input terminals, should be 2.1-3.2 ohms
- between spark-plug wire output terminal and coil mounting-bolt, should be 10-16k ohms
thanks danno. im out of work around 6 and will pick up a multi meter, and test the coils when i get home. after i test the coils, say they come up good, what to test next? and what numbers will i be looking for? although i have a feeling i may have fried both coils simultaneously id like a list of what to test and how to test it. i have watched a ton of videos on multimeter testing last night. youve been great help so far dan. thank you. hope we can get this ninja running strong!

thank you,

Simon
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 06:14 PM   #6
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Since we’re not building spaceships (yes, I’ve worked for NASA), any basic multimeter from Harbour Freight will do. Check this site for coupons: http://hfqpdb.com

Here’s video on how to use multimeter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLkPtmnglOI

7. Disconnect input and output wires from both coils and measure resistance:

- between 2 input terminals, should be 2.1-3.2 ohms
- between spark-plug wire output terminal and coil mounting-bolt, should be 10-16k ohms

So I got a 2.8 ohm reading on both coils. Couldn’t get anything from spark plug wire outlet and grounding bolt, not sure if multimeter goes in far enough? Should I just order a cdi since it was filled with water and overpowered at the same time? I can’t find any burnt wires anywhere. So I’m assuming I fried the cdi. Correct me if I’m wrong?
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 08:27 PM   #7
Triple Jim
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You may be right, but that unit is not a CDI, it a transistor switched type.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 05:06 AM   #8
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
You may be right, but that unit is not a CDI, it a transistor switched type.
Meaning what? That I’m calling it the wrong part? Or that I’m about to order the wrong part? I found it called cdi all over eBay for 40$
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 06:06 AM   #9
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I was just pointing out that it's often called the wrong thing so you could be aware of that.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 06:42 AM   #10
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I was just pointing out that it's often called the wrong thing so you could be aware of that.
So I just ordered the cdi (igniter box) is that the right part? Has 2 plugs, is square shaped
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 09:58 AM   #11
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They're called all sorts of things, ignition box, CDI box, ECM box, ignitor, etc. As long as we're referring to same thing, it's OK.

Be sure to get one from +1995 bike (wiring different for earlier models), with part# that's NOT from CA model. Those have milder ignition curves.

Also need to test ignition-box, current one and new one as well. Without positive 100% confirmation that it's good or bad, you'll have no idea if it or something else is causing no-spark condition (there's easily 10 other parts that can be responsible, do you want to replace them all? even if they're perfectly good?). At some point, you might as well buy another bike since you'll be replacing everything anyway.

Get a solenoid light to test ignition box

8. Plug red/black ignition input wires going to coil into noid-light. Turn ON ignition switch + Kill-switch ON and crank. Does noid-light flash? repeat for red/green wire for other side.

Do this test #8 last as it depends upon all previous ones having been done and positive confirmation that all upstream components are function. Still waiting on results of your fuses test #3, wiring test #4 and battery-voltage test #6.

7. use long bolt to reach down into spark plug wire output terminal so it contacts metal at bottom.

6. What is battery voltage? If it's less than 13.6v right off charger or less than 12.6v after resting few hours, then battery is no good. Get new one and charge it for couple days. Measure voltage, what is it?
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 02:20 PM   #12
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
They're called all sorts of things, ignition box, CDI box, ECM box, ignitor, etc. As long as we're referring to same thing, it's OK.

Be sure to get one from +1995 bike (wiring different for earlier models), with part# that's NOT from CA model. Those have milder ignition curves.

Also need to test ignition-box, current one and new one as well. Without positive 100% confirmation that it's good or bad, you'll have no idea if it or something else is causing no-spark condition (there's easily 10 other parts that can be responsible, do you want to replace them all? even if they're perfectly good?). At some point, you might as well buy another bike since you'll be replacing everything anyway.

Get a solenoid light to test ignition box

8. Plug red/black ignition input wires going to coil into noid-light. Turn ON ignition switch + Kill-switch ON and crank. Does noid-light flash? repeat for red/green wire for other side.

Do this test #8 last as it depends upon all previous ones having been done and positive confirmation that all upstream components are function. Still waiting on results of your fuses test #3, wiring test #4 and battery-voltage test #6.

7. use long bolt to reach down into spark plug wire output terminal so it contacts metal at bottom.

6. What is battery voltage? If it's less than 13.6v right off charger or less than 12.6v after resting few hours, then battery is no good. Get new one and charge it for couple days. Measure voltage, what is it?

So I don’t have the proper battery, I’ll order one once I get this thing running properly. Cdi and starter solenoids on the way so I can stop using a jumper wire.

I did test the fuses out of the box as you said; they all came back to 0 ohms. All of them. What is the proper testing procedure for the cdi so I can test old vs new?
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 03:36 PM   #13
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#8 is test for working CDI. Noid light should show ignition trigger pulses from CDI to coil.

Even better is oscilloscope trace because it would show voltage-levels.



Of course, pulsing at coil requires that coil is actually getting power. Hence need for test #4. Perfectly good coil and CDI will not generate any spark if there's no power at coil. So first thing after good battery is to test that battery power is actually getting to coil (could be ignition-switch, kill-switch and other wiring if not).
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 03:58 PM   #14
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
They're called all sorts of things, ignition box, CDI box, ECM box, ignitor, etc. As long as we're referring to same thing, it's OK.

Be sure to get one from +1995 bike (wiring different for earlier models), with part# that's NOT from CA model. Those have milder ignition curves.

Also need to test ignition-box, current one and new one as well. Without positive 100% confirmation that it's good or bad, you'll have no idea if it or something else is causing no-spark condition (there's easily 10 other parts that can be responsible, do you want to replace them all? even if they're perfectly good?). At some point, you might as well buy another bike since you'll be replacing everything anyway.

Get a solenoid light to test ignition box

8. Plug red/black ignition input wires going to coil into noid-light. Turn ON ignition switch + Kill-switch ON and crank. Does noid-light flash? repeat for red/green wire for other side.

Do this test #8 last as it depends upon all previous ones having been done and positive confirmation that all upstream components are function. Still waiting on results of your fuses test #3, wiring test #4 and battery-voltage test #6.

7. use long bolt to reach down into spark plug wire output terminal so it contacts metal at bottom.

6. What is battery voltage? If it's less than 13.6v right off charger or less than 12.6v after resting few hours, then battery is no good. Get new one and charge it for couple days. Measure voltage, what is it?
I’m getting around 20.00m ohms on each coil from mounting bolt to spark plug wire outlet terminal. What does this mean??

Edit: restested with different bolt going into plug wire outlet on coil, getting same results anywhere from 17m to 25m ohm from mounting bolt to plug wire outlet

Last futzed with by Sig99; April 23rd, 2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 05:29 PM   #15
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Even Danno is calling it a CDI now.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 08:07 PM   #16
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Even Danno is calling it a CDI now.
Booh! I fell into trap!!!
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 08:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig99 View Post
So I don’t have the proper battery, I’ll order one once I get this thing running properly. Cdi and starter solenoids on the way so I can stop using a jumper.
what’s wrong with battery?

Also why not just replace blown 30-amp main fuse on starter solenoid? They’re actually two separate independent components.
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Old April 24th, 2019, 03:52 AM   #18
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
what’s wrong with battery?

Also why not just replace blown 30-amp main fuse on starter solenoid? They’re actually two separate independent components.
I already replaced fuse, starter solenoid doesn’t work though. It clicks when starter button pressed. But doesn’t work. Battery is non existent, bike didn’t come with one. But I had a little one off a go kart laying around.
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Old April 25th, 2019, 06:16 PM   #19
Sig99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
what’s wrong with battery?

Also why not just replace blown 30-amp main fuse on starter solenoid? They’re actually two separate independent components.
I replaced whole solenoid with brand new one off eBay for 12$, due to the starter button not working but I could hear the solenoid click. So I knew the button was working and the solenoid was dead. Replaced it today, as my cdi and solenoid came in. Starter button works with new solenoid but still had no spark. Replaced cdi, and bang. I have spark. The battery was mia when I bought the bike. So I had a small one off an old pit bike or something that I threw in for now. Going to get a battery once I have the extra funds. Bills are tight right now. Thank you very much Danno for your help, you were very helpful with the testing procedures. The cdi I got has a different part number. Although it is off a 2006, the part number off mine is a 21119-0012, 131800-6401, 12v, tncf33
The part number off the new one is 21119-0010, 131800-6141, 12v, tncf32
I wonder what the differences are between the two Cdis. New to me ones sticker is orange/silver and my old one is silver/white. If anyone knows the differences that would be appreciated. I sprayed some starter fluid into the carbs because I have no gasoline lol she fired up and idled for a couple seconds before I killed it. Super exciting night. Got Home from work to find my 2 packages had arrived a few days early and got to hear her rumble for a couple seconds. I might end up getting a new tank depending on how the jbweld holds up haha
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