Bike not wanting to rev past ~5k while driving

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

The crankshaft locking randomly disappeared for me....

Valve clearances wayyyy tight and I don't know why. I didn't keep the rockers native to their respective valve so I'm guessing that could be a reason but theyre all worn so I didn't see why it would matter.

Gonna eat lunch now and resume work....

[Motofool]

Yes, go and feed that brain

After all the difficulties that you have faced and sorted out, you will have some respectable experience with the pre-gens.

You are really persistent, man !!

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, go and feed that brain

After all the difficulties that you have faced and sorted out, you will have some respectable experience with the pre-gens.

You are really persistent, man !!

Thx! I just want to ride again I think I'm as lazy as the next guy

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Just tried to start the bike with fresh gas and the battery is dead so I'm going to take it to get charged tonight.

I'm not confident it's going to start based on the sound of it.

I really hope the piston rings I good because I didn't replace them.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Just tried to start the bike with fresh gas and the battery is dead so I'm going to take it to get charged tonight.

I'm not confident it's going to start based on the sound of it.

I really hope the piston rings I good because I didn't replace them.

I just read through most of this thread. Before starting, make sure that you got all the stuff out of the engine that you accidentally dropped in. If you dropped a nut or screw into the clutch side then it would whip up and jamb between the gear teeth. There are several gears not including the transmission and jamming any of them is going to ruin everything.

If it was locking and now it isn't, but you don't know why, then don't try to run it until you do know why.

Regarding the rings, if they weren't broken, just reuse them. However, the openings need to be alternated front to back. Did you do that?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I just read through most of this thread. Before starting, make sure that you got all the stuff out of the engine that you accidentally dropped in. If you dropped a nut or screw into the clutch side then it would whip up and jamb between the gear teeth. There are several gears not including the transmission and jamming any of them is going to ruin everything.

If it was locking and now it isn't, but you don't know why, then don't try to run it until you do know why.

Regarding the rings, if they weren't broken, just reuse them. However, the openings need to be alternated front to back. Did you do that?

All my parts are accounted for. The chain wasn't turning because the intake cam was sitting in its place. As soon as I took it off it spun. I had the clutch cover off so I could see the entire chain..... Very weird as the chain wasn't on the cam.....
I did alternate the ring openings yes.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Tried to start bike, no go. Compression test now reads zero and zero. Gonna run a leak down test later out of sheer curiosity and then find a place to store this dead bike. Thanks for everyones help on this anyways.

[Motofool]

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

No worries, I'll figure out where the leaks are coming from and more than likely just buy a used head from someone.

[choneofakind]

If you buy a used head, be sure to double check that the threading for the spark plugs is good. Mine stripped last summer, and that was a major hassle because I don't have a drill press or tapping tools. Major annoyance that made me pay for labor and put my bike out of commission for about 3 weeks.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Good note of caution.

Looks like they sell for ~$100 on ebay which is way better than $900 new lol

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I just had a thought: Maybe the timing is 180 degrees off as the flywheel will read TDC/2DC even when the pistons are at BDC..... I did rotate the crankshaft many times....
Am I right on this?

Will check on that today. Looks like N4MWD is gonna lend me a hand!

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Leakdown test shows ~50% leaks in both cylinders..... The part that is strange is that when I rotate the crankshaft the gauge doesn't budge. Like instead of reading major leaks in the exhaust and intake stroke it reads the same as TDC.....

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

What I take from that ^^^ combined with the fact the valve clearances are tight and the compression is low is that I need to find out why the valves clearances are so tight. I torqued the cam caps to 110 in/ft. (the spec is 104 but my wrench does 110 minimum) so maybe that extra 6 in/ft is pushing the valves too hard????? Any ideas?

Oh, and I can feel a tiny bit of air coming out of the pipes during the exhaust stroke, not quite enough air.... Taking the valve cover off now....

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I just had a thought: Maybe the timing is 180 degrees off as the flywheel will read TDC/2DC even when the pistons are at BDC..... I did rotate the crankshaft many times....
Am I right on this?

Will check on that today. Looks like N4MWD is gonna lend me a hand!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=165

Kudos to N4MWD !!!

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=165

Kudos to N4MWD !!!

I made sure the timing was correct at 2DC with the sprocket markings parallel to the rim of the head.... Do you think an overtightened chain could push the cams down enough to cause the lack of clearance? Is it possible I did the timing at BDC instead of TDC?

[Motofool]

Neither chain tension nor torque on caps can change the relative height of cams-valves-rockers.

Everything is so strange...........

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Neither chain tension nor torque on caps can change the relative height of cams-valves-rockers.

Everything is so strange...........

Thanks to N4MWD we found that the collets were not fully seated on the valve stems. Time to take the head off and find a spring compressor that actually fits these springs

[n4mwd]

Justin, I didn't think about this until I was half way home, but I seem to remember that your springs looked a bit twisted. When you get them out, take a look at them to see if they are bent. If they are, I'm not sure if you need to change them or not. If they are bent, its probably the result of the bad spring compressor.

The valve keepers are a bit tricky to figure out if you haven't seen them before. Here is a schematic of the assembly:


However, the above schematic is deceiving. To install the valves, this is the process:

1. Install the valve stem up from the bottom.
2. If there is a valve stem seal and it came off, push it back on.
3. Put the spring over the valve stem
4. Put the retainer (washer thing with a cup) over the spring.
5. Squish the spring with the clamp tool enough so that the groove for the keeper is exposed.
6. Stick the keepers to the valve stem so that they line up with the groove and the taper points down. Use grease to make them stick so they don't fall out while you are working.

Without everything else, here is a picture of how the keepers should stick to the valve stem (stock image - ignore text):



7. Then you just let up on the spring compressor and the cup in the retainer catches them and prevents them from coming off any more.

You might be able to rent a valve compressor from advance auto parts. They have one that looks like it will work, but its pricey.



It would also be a good idea to examine the keepers to make sure that they weren't damaged by the previous installation. A little ridge on them is all they have to hold the valve stem.

NOTE: I checked Advance Auto Parts and they are out of the good valve compressors. Maybe Autozone or NAPA.

[n4mwd]

Try the tool rental places first. Here is one on ebay for $30.

I'm not 100% certain that it will fit, but it looks a lot like it will.

Also, we didn't really get into valve lapping, but I guess its OK to not do it as long as you got the valves back in the same holes they came out of.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Try the tool rental places first. Here is one on ebay for $30.

I'm not 100% certain that it will fit, but it looks a lot like it will.

Also, we didn't really get into valve lapping, but I guess its OK to not do it as long as you got the valves back in the same holes they came out of.

I've already lapped all of the valves. That's why I was saying the air leak issue in the leak down test revealed had been fixed. I looked at both autozone and advanced and they carry the same compressors. I will take it to a bike shop tomorrow to have them compressed for me. In the meantime I will consider buying the tool....

I was in such a hurry I dinged my neighbors car pulling back in and almost lost a pair of the keepers in the grass. Well ,they were lost for about 30 minutes. If it wasn't for this valve spring issue the bike would already be back together. I took the cylinder block off and ensured the rings were spaced correctly as well.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I've already lapped all of the valves. That's why I was saying the air leak issue in the leak down test revealed had been fixed. I looked at both autozone and advanced and they carry the same compressors. I will take it to a bike shop tomorrow to have them compressed for me. In the meantime I will consider buying the tool....

I was in such a hurry I dinged my neighbors car pulling back in and almost lost a pair of the keepers in the grass. Well ,they were lost for about 30 minutes. If it wasn't for this valve spring issue the bike would already be back together. I took the cylinder block off and ensured the rings were spaced correctly as well.

Sorry to hear you wrecked your neighbor's car. That sucks. Hopefully your insurance will cover everything like they should.

Losing stuff in the grass would be another good argument for moving it where I suggested.

I missed the lapping part, but its good you did it.

If you take it to a shop to have them put the keepers in for you, I don't see any reason to buy one unless you just want one. Auto machine shops can also do it and will have the proper tools.

Were the springs OK?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Sorry to hear you wrecked your neighbor's car. That sucks. Hopefully your insurance will cover everything like they should.

Losing stuff in the grass would be another good argument for moving it where I suggested.

I missed the lapping part, but its good you did it.

If you take it to a shop to have them put the keepers in for you, I don't see any reason to buy one unless you just want one. Auto machine shops can also do it and will have the proper tools.

Were the springs OK?

Yeah all the springs are good.

Moved the head inside. I rented a tool from advanced but it won't even fit. I don't think I'll need to buy the tool either. Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Yeah all the springs are good.

Moved the head inside. I rented a tool from advanced but it won't even fit. I don't think I'll need to buy the tool either. Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

I checked with them and they didn't have the good one. What tool did you rent? The C-clamp one in the photo above looked like it would work.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I checked with them and they didn't have the good one. What tool did you rent? The C-clamp one in the photo above looked like it would work.

It's a C-clamp shape but the part the pushes on the spring isn't cylindrical it's the same shape as the ones that are on the shelves everywhere. It won't even clear the rim of the Head.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

It's a C-clamp shape but the part the pushes on the spring isn't cylindrical it's the same shape as the ones that are on the shelves everywhere. It won't even clear the rim of the Head.

That sucks. Just return it and take the head to a shop somewhere. Just be clear that you don't want a valve job, you just want the springs installed. They charge a lot more for a valve job and you don't need that.

Were the valve keepers damaged any from the mis-installation?

Also, please remember to check the dog ears on all the rockers. They are probably all OK, but if only one is cracked, it will cause a world of hurt when you start the bike. I say this because they were pushing on the wrong thing when you had it all together like that so damage is possible.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Bike shop doesn't have the tool. The mechanic is gonna see if he has it at home and will let me know tomorrow. Anyone have any suggestions for tools if he doesn't have it? I tried a big C-clamp with a socket but it covers the entire valve so that was a no go.....

Buzzkill

[Motofool]

I don't have that tool, sorry.

Maybe @alex.s and @Racer x could help with some suggestion.

Did you try Engine Rebuilders?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=206

[alex.s]

me and kevin use a deep socket with a paper towel and magnet

push hard and the little half moons come out and stick to the magnet

align them up and push hard with no magnet and they fall back into place

[Racer x]

I got a spring compressor off eBay . It was cheap and works great. I will post a link when I get home.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Bike shop doesn't have the tool. The mechanic is gonna see if he has it at home and will let me know tomorrow. Anyone have any suggestions for tools if he doesn't have it? I tried a big C-clamp with a socket but it covers the entire valve so that was a no go.....

Buzzkill

by " bike", you mean "motorcycle", right?
most motorcycle shop should have that tool, but if they don't, all machine shops will have it. I know lake park auto will have it and napa machine down from cycle gear should have it too.

[Racer x]

this is the one I got . It is slow but easy to use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-5...16f0f0&vxp=mtr

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Racer x

this is the one I got . It is slow but easy to use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-5...16f0f0&vxp=mtr

If he could get one of those adapters in the kit, all he would need is a big C-clamp. Probably wouldn't be that hard to make one out of some 1" galvanized pipe.

EDIT: Justin, if you can't find someone to do it for you, I could probably make one in my shop and bring it to you. We could have those back in there in no time.

[alex.s]

there are tons of youtube videos on how to improvise a valve compressor tool. i like the guy who cut a little slot out of the side of a socket then used a c clamp and then some tweezers for handling the keepers

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

there are tons of youtube videos on how to improvise a valve compressor tool. i like the guy who cut a little slot out of the side of a socket then used a c clamp and then some tweezers for handling the keepers

Ooooh, that gives me an idea. How about an O2 sensor socket? It comes with a slot already in there. Just need a big C-clamp and a pair of tweezers.

Like this one:

[alex.s]

yep, that would work. but i still like the magnet/paper towel method :P

[Racer x]

The C clamp has special shafts of different lengths. The whole kit is 16 dollars. If you scratch the head or scratch the bucket around the spring on the new gen head you will wish you used the proper tool for the job.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Just got the head back from the shop FINALLY. They charged $43 for 1.5 hours of labor.......

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I'm trying to put the cam caps back on and I forgot which place the longer and shorter bolts go..... I forget where I found out before

Edit: found it on kneedraggers.com duhh

[Motofool]

Try this:

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID.../Cylinder_Head