Bet you saw this crash coming..

[ninja250]

You can't tell anything from watching my mirror..
..and I'm 6'6" tall. My body doesn't lean much more than that.

[almost40]

If your head and shoulders were moving from side to side as you corner I wouldnt have been able to see them in the mirror is all im saying.
I dont care that you crashed. Im glad you have enough brains to wear the proper gear and you OK. The bike can be fixed.
I suggested a trackday or three because professional instruction will help you reach the cornering limits that you desire.
We have all crashed, Hell, theres some great pictures of my crash on the track posted here on this site.
Most people dont realize that getting just your butt off the seat does NOTHING to help you thru the corner. You have to get your upper body weight to the proper side to help you stand up the bike a bit and use a larger tire contact patch thru the corner.

[ninja250]

Dude I know how to pin my leg between the bike and the groud and come out fine.
Read the thread before you chew on me. I was extremely close to track practice time. Just a little anxious and it got me.
I lean my whole body off the side of the bike like I'm standing on the side.
I push the whole bike out to the side like a matador waving a flag at a bull.
Every joint in my body is sore after minutes of dragging because of the extreme positions I extend myself to. You can't see any of that in my mirror.

Over braking into a fok diving loss of traction, bad line and panic is my story and I'm sticking to it. My body position didn't have much to do with it, like my shifting and throttle chopping.
I don't care that you crashe either but I came in there and gave you thumbs up On the video instead of talking down about your style that I can't even really see.
Posted via Mobile Device

[petiteninja]

i want to do the ss brake line upgrade and i'll be getting new tires, i'm glad to hear that you've discovered the weak link...

[almost40]

Take it personal if you please, but that wasnt my intent. I was just pointing out what I took out of your vid.
A trackday or three with some personal instruction might open your eyes a bit. THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE, not just you.
I see the same thing that I think you did, at every track day. Most of the time people get away with it.
My best friend does the same thing that I think you do when you corner. It took him all last summer to relearn the correct body position. Its not that big of a deal. IT HAPPENS TO ALOT OF RIDERS. In his case, it stems from riding dirt bikes most of his life where being on top of the bike helps, not hurts.

The guys who LEARN to go fast keeps an open mind and attends a trackday to learn.

Thats the beauty of profesional Instruction, its an objective look from someone who KNOWS how to ride.
Listen, Learn.
You are correct that not being smooth contributed to your crash its the #1 factor in most crashes. God knows it cost me a time or two. I was merely pointing out another possible factor that had not yet been mentioned.

NONE of the above was intended to offend the original poster its for everyone reading this thread. Please dont take it personal. Its food for thought when you do attend a trackday. Might want to ask your instructor to take a look and get his thoughts.

[TrueFaith]

Thanks for sharing...although it did bring up some bad memories, especially the soundtrack of fairing on gravel.
I was also going to suggest that the transition of light to shadow in the turn didn't help.
What I can't get over is the asshat in the car braking when you came up behind him so quick like that. Maybe you were going over the speed limit and passing in a no-pass zone, but that guy didn't need to "help" you get by him by stomping on his brakes either. A little more gusto using his brakes and you might never have made it to that turn in the first place.

[Cedilla]

^One thing that bugs me is when your on a 4 lane highway behind someone doing 10 or 15 below the limit talking on the cell phone and weaving and whatnot. When you go to switch lanes to pass them they just happen to notice you in their rear view, and instead on holding a steady coarse like you should when being overtaken, they try to move out of your way as your switching lanes to pass them, so now every time I approach a vehicle, I pause for a moment to see what they are going to do before I overtake them.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by ninja250

You can't tell anything from watching my mirror..
..and I'm 6'6" tall. My body doesn't lean much more than that.

Yes it does... almost40 is correct. Like it or not.

[ninja250]

Ok I realize your just trying to start crap now so here goes.
But yes I agree with him too. I need track time. I was on my way there. I know you don't read either too so thought I'd point it out for ya, along with the part where I already stated I obviously have more to learn before you both told me again.
Posted via Mobile Device

[pedaltothemetal]

Casey we need to get some rearsets and clipon so we can look like Rossi!
In my actions shots I look like a commuter!

[Samer]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Ok I realize your just trying to start crap now so here goes.
But yes I agree with him too. I need track time. I was on my way there. I know you don't read either too so thought I'd point it out for ya, along with the part where I already stated I obviously have more to learn before you both told me again.
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't expect I'd defend "Almost40" due to our obvious political differences , however I doubt that he or anyone else on this forum is trying to 'start crap'. One of the biggest problems with the internet is that it is hard to convey tones. Hence all the smiley faces

Anyway, they are giving you advice, if you don't agree, that's fine. If you already know it, that's fine too. Nobody is trying to insult your intelligence. This is one of the most civilized forums I've been on. And that's one of the main reasons I keep coming back.

As far as putting your head past the mirror. This video has helped me tremendously. If you've seen it, that's fine. If you haven't, it may be useful. I certainly found it to be useful for me. Cheers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCg3BMGe52M

[TmP]

I think the root cause of crashes like this is as simple as it is unpleasant.
You're not as good as you think you are. Your line was down right horrible and you did 100% the opposite of what you should have done...

Not trying to bash you.
Trust me, been there, done that.

[Dano]

Glad you are ok..and you got a freaking HUGE set of balls to post that video on here to get trashed and berated. Dumped my SV on a bend due to going into the turn too hot and couldnt avoid the gravel..if I was going slower I would easily avoided it. One lesson I learned was to dial it down on public roads unless I was 100% certain the road is clear and I was very familiar with the road..Good luck fixing the bike and take it easy next time.

[adri99an]

KC- when you put a video of any crash in any forum be ready to take some heat and crap from everyone who thinks they know what they're talking about.....I'm sure you've learned your lesson and understand everything you did right and wrong.....crashes happen...they are going to happen sooner or later....I'm waiting for my time....you ride A LOT and you have more of a chance to crash......people all over the country watch your video...put their two cents in and you have to live with it......I've read every post in this thread and although we cannot hear tone...we know it when it's there and it's there buddy. Take it with a grain of salt....put your boots on...strap up and move along....don't wast your time jabbering....

I've ridden with you a few times...and I can say your a good rider....I've been behind you in the twisties and I know you understand line and form.....like I said before...there are some days when things just don't go right......be safe and ride safe buddy

[ninja250]

Thanks for backing me up man.
I know I have more to learn. I said so already.
I know I should be on a track too, and am/have been trying to get there.
Yes, I am crazy for posting this but knew I'd take heat so did it anyway.
Learn from me. I'm a pretty smart person but I messed up like this anyways. Everyone else can too if you don't take me as an example, so I made an example of myself on purpose.

Either way, my riding style isn't much different than anyone in this thread full of pictures with their head near where the mirror would be.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40062
Like I said, can't see that in my mirror though.

[CC Cowboy]

Crashing must be fun, everyone is either doing it or looking forward to doing it.

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Crashing must be fun, everyone is either doing it or looking forward to doing it.

Yeah, you'd really think crashing was a good idea after reading some of the comments. "Rite of passage" sure sounds better than "simple mistake" don't it?

[ChuckFever]

The impact bent the frame? That thing is permanently FUBAR'd even if you do replace the frame.

I wouldn't put $2200 back into that POS. Sell whats left for salvage and take that and your $2200 and go buy a new $3900 cycle...

[backinthesaddleagain]

All these crash stories having me riding tense, and looking at riding schools. Early saturday I stabbed a foot down in a 90 degree corner after the rear tire got sideways on the yellow stripe. Road was debris free, but probably only 30 something degrees.

[ninja250]

A) Entered too early
B) Braked too hard while on knee
C) Traction loss.. fork dive.. skipping? Unfamiliar.. Period.
D) Panic, stand bike up straight toward rail, regain composure in just enough time for one last turn away from the rail
E) Point of impact.
F) Point of stop. (See parts recovery photo)



From the scene


Just like clockwork.
I deserved it.

[TmP]

Your little graph is pretty spot on.
Nice way of showing why late apexing saves lives on the street...

[TmP]

Originally Posted by TmP

Your little graph is pretty spot on.
Nice way of showing why late apexing saves lives on the street...

Rule of thumb for street riding:
Get all your braking done before the corner, swing out wide (because it will allow you to see further in the corner), turn and aim for an apex just before you straighten out.

Just my 2 cents.

LOL
I ment to press edit not quote...

[almost40]

Good vid to watch Samer. Notice the difference in the before and after in head position and bike lean angle.
The instruction is almost to a T the kind of instruction I received at my first few trackdays.
Now my next statement is NOT a slam against you ninja, just a suggestion.

Open your mind to the possibility that you arent doing things correctly when you goto your trackday. From what Ive read so far, it SEEMS to me, that you think you arent making any mistakes in your body position. The vid you posted, clearly, (to me anyway) shows your head is not in the correct position.
Learn dude, it will make those twisty roads alot more fun.
It will also make you a better rider than you already are.

[Momaru]

Good souvenir KC. Thanks again for sharing your experience and giving us a step-by-step.

[maglin]

Glad you are OK my friend!

Your accident look similar with this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBTGgT_V5F8

Bad target fixation due to panic which make you brake while hard cornering.

About the frame, you can always calibrate it instead of buying a new one.

[JeffM]

250, nice diagram of you shunt. Well done.

You hanging that part on your wall?

[ninja250]

About scrapping the bike..

The total to fix it will be $3000. Without 3 plastic panels to make it pretty again. That's with me doing all the work.

You cannot sell a bike you are still paying off under our contract.

The price to buy a brand new 2010 Ninja 250R SE from the California dealership I bought mine from was over 5,000 after taxes and all that. So it makes sense to repair it IMO. Thank our economy for the rising price of a brand new 2010 ninja 250.

I will be using it for a track bike later when I pay this off and buy my GSXR.

I know I have a lot to learn. I'm open minded to that fact. I wrote it before anyone told me.

but it's clear I still have much to learn

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=10
10th post in this thread.

I realize you need to twist your body down forward and around the tank when you lean. The way I was taught, was to kiss you mirror. The guy in that video shown going through the roundabouts isn't actually lower than his mirror in my opinion. You'd see his face on my rig in the mirror too is what I am trying to relay to you guys. I tried to learn as much about getting your knee down as I could before I actually did it. I'm not just going out there for the first time blind and slapping it down at all costs. It took me tons of practice to get here and I worked up to it. I just made a few bad choices and a couple riding mistakes I have yet to come across.

[adri99an]

KC- your crash is getting lots of good posts from other riders around the country. Its good to see others sharing info on body position...apexing and thoughts of their mishaps. I'd love to see pics of good body position in a turn.
In the end...u r ok and we are all learning.
Posted via Mobile Device

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by ninja250

About scrapping the bike..

The total to fix it will be $3000. Without 3 plastic panels to make it pretty again. That's with me doing all the work.

You cannot sell a bike you are still paying off under our contract.

The price to buy a brand new 2010 Ninja 250R SE from the California dealership I bought mine from was over 5,000 after taxes and all that. So it makes sense to repair it IMO. Thank our economy for the rising price of a brand new 2010 ninja 250.

I will be using it for a track bike later when I pay this off and buy my GSXR.

I know I have a lot to learn. I'm open minded to that fact. I wrote it before anyone told me.


http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=10
10th post in this thread.

I realize you need to twist your body down forward and around the tank when you lean. The way I was taught, was to kiss you mirror. The guy in that video shown going through the roundabouts isn't actually lower than his mirror in my opinion. You'd see his face on my rig in the mirror too is what I am trying to relay to you guys. I tried to learn as much about getting your knee down as I could before I actually did it. I'm not just going out there for the first time blind and slapping it down at all costs. It took me tons of practice to get here and I worked up to it. I just made a few bad choices and a couple riding mistakes I have yet to come across.

KC - what kind of contract (loan?), doesnt allow you to sell? so long as you pay off the lienholder why would they care? Do you have insurance? I would think such a strict contract would call for insurance??

[TrueFaith]

I applaud the OP for posting about his crash. Threads like these are an invaluable learning tool for both the person who crashed and anyone who reads them. I did the same thing when I crashed my first Ninja 250R a couple of years ago and gleened a lot of very useful info from the responses.
More people should do this, but unfortunately many riders don't want to admit they aren't perfect riders. I got the same sort of smarmy answers you always find in these threads, but the useful info far outweighed the negative comments.
You can expect a little heat anytime you post a crashing thread, but to have more experienced riders critique your riding style and the choices that led up to the crash is well worth it.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by TmP

Rule of thumb for street riding:
Get all your braking done before the corner, swing out wide (because it will allow you to see further in the corner), turn and aim for an apex just before you straighten out.

Just my 2 cents.

LOL
I ment to press edit not quote...

Tom, good points. I want to add one to them - sometimes slower is better. Remember it is the street and any number of factors can present themselves. I have been on some roads with no other traffic, perfect conditions, then whoa look at that deer, or coolant, or cow crap (backroads between farms). Regardless of lines, best line, worst line, body position, at lower speed any number of lines are possible.

[CC Cowboy]

KC, next time you crash ( I'd rather you don't again) have a camera on the bike behind you and we can see what you did wrong much better.

After looking at the video a few more times (don't take this wrong, that it as constructive BS) it doesn't look like you are down on a knee (which I don't recommend for the street) and it appears you could have been much lower on the bike. Looking at your shaddow and also your mirror ( I know you say we cant tell anything by the mirror and you're 6'6") it seems there was room to get lower and more important stay hanging off longer. You sat up straight once you freaked and focused on the bush in the guardrail.

You are corrected about A and D in your explanation. I'm not too sure about B and C though.

Good thing google had the location along with your line highlighted.

[TmP]

I think that people get carried away with the whole knee dragging thing.
Dragging at any cost just because it's cool can screw you pretty good.
It will make correcting your line harder and it seems some people don't get a good feeling for the actual ground clearance their bike has. I agree with cowboy that there probably was a lot of room left.

I had a similar crash once. I came around a 180 degree uphill hairpin pretty hot and right in the middle was a 1 ft wide path of dirt and gravel the rain had washed on the road the day before. I saw the obvious problem and instead of looking at the corner exit I focused too much on hurdle in my way. Guess what: had my weight in the wrong spot, didn't allow the bike to just "glide" over the issue and laid it down hard.
**** happens

[backinthesaddleagain]

I once dragged both knees at once. Man those pocket bikes were fun.

[Locksmiff]

I am assuming the bike wasn't insured.

[ninja250]

The bike was/is insured.
They'll find out when I swap the frame.
I guess there's nothing to be said for fixing your own mistakes anymore.
Lots of opinions on what happened but not much anyone can really go on with my camera angles etc.
Pretty sure what I felt happen in real life was pretty close to what happened. Lol there was no time to target fixate on anything.
The rest if it has nothing to do with the crash.
I did also say I probably could have pulled it off if I just rode it out too without hitting the brake. Sh*t happens.
I will however maintain that my body position isn't as far off as you guys think. Maybe for that few seconds in the video, but yeah everything else in the video was all off too. Definitely wasn't the cause of the crash.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ninja250]

I was wrong when I sai my body won't lean any more than that, but that is not exactly what I meant. I meant that being this tall it's hard to get my head lower than that.

Yes, I could have leaned further most likely.

There was traction loss due to braking for sure.

Also I surely was on my knee when it happen which goes to show further that the camera is hard to go by. I have nothig to lie about. I see now that being on your knee isn't all that. Trust me the fun of it has been stripped right away now. Haha
Posted via Mobile Device

[jcgirl]

Sometimes the feces hits the ocilating device. I really appriciate you posting this. I'm sure that a lot of us have learned soemthing from your video or the following discussion. I hope your bike feels better soon. Wanna come to Canada and fix mine after?

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by ninja250

The bike was/is insured.
They'll find out when I swap the frame.
I guess there's nothing to be said for fixing your own mistakes anymore.
Lots of opinions on what happened but not much anyone can really go on with my camera angles etc.
Pretty sure what I felt happen in real life was pretty close to what happened. Lol there was no time to target fixate on anything.
The rest if it has nothing to do with the crash.
I did also say I probably could have pulled it off if I just rode it out too without hitting the brake. Sh*t happens.
I will however maintain that my body position isn't as far off as you guys think. Maybe for that few seconds in the video, but yeah everything else in the video was all off too. Definitely wasn't the cause of the crash.
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't get discouraged. Everyone is trying to help, not condemn. The real problem was going to fast on a corner you didn't know.

[ninja250]

Oh wait I figured out what you guys were trying to tell me.

Because I wasn't tucked in shoulder first while leaning, you think I don't know how to position my body. LOL!
(Even though that has absolutely nothing to do with this crash)

I wasn't racing 10 other people with a need for aerodynamics! Just getting my knee down on a local road! I love it how I'm wrong when nobody even realizes I'm not in a race.. just out having fun!

I learned by watching someone who does go to the track how to position my body, but didn't realize is was mandatory unless I was actually in a race.. so you're all right. My body wasn't in race positioning in that video. Probably because I wasn't racing!