Pessimistic fuel gauge

[mikecronis]

I've noticed the fuel gauge on the 250R-J is a bit pessimistic. Upon "E" I still have 100 miles of range. True "E" is hard on the peg after about 45 miles. Anyone else gettin' this?

[Samer]

I haven't run to E or anywhere near it. I think if you do a search, you'll see a thread or two about how many miles people get out of a tank. I did notice that it is a bit pessimistic, but I tend to fill at about 220 miles or so on the trip meter. And when, I fill it up, it is significantly less than 4 gallons. I calculate the milage most times and it is in the 50 mpg range. Resetting the trip meter each time you fill up is a good alternative and additional way to judge when it is time to refill.

[CRXTrek]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32412

[bob706]

I ran out of gas at 264 miles. The guage was alittle above "E". I don't chance it anymore and just fill up around 200-220.

[mikecronis]

I tend to get around 70-75 mpg. I don't know if break-in had anything to do with that. I average about 70mph consistently.

[Banzai]

Well documented issue, like the CDI faults. The only fix is to replace the sender.

In the mean time, use your trip odometer and fill up around 200-220 miles and you should never go wrong.

[adouglas]

The fuel gauge is a total waste of time. It doesn't read full when it's full, it reads empty when it isn't empty. What exactly is the point of the stupid thing?

I do what I've always done... set the trip meter and fill up at 200 miles or so. It's simple, easy to remember and way more reliable.

I suppose I should put something more useful over the fuel gauge. Maybe a ninja turtle sticker or something like that.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I suppose I should put something more useful over the fuel gauge. Maybe a ninja turtle sticker or something like that.

I wonder if a water temp gauge from a pregen is a direct fit for the fuel gauge?

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by kkim

I wonder if a water temp gauge from a pregen is a direct fit for the fuel gauge?

One of our overseas members should sell the gauge and temp sender for the +08's

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by kkim

I wonder if a water temp gauge from a pregen is a direct fit for the fuel gauge?

Now we are talking...

[kkim]

Originally Posted by HKr1

One of our overseas members should sell the gauge and temp sender for the +08's

I looked into buying a WT gauge from the FI new gen and I was told the water temp info that is sent to that water temp gauge on the new gens comes from the bike's computer. It's not connected to a signal that comes directly from a sender.

When I heard that, I installed the Daytona water temp gauge instead and dropped the FI temp gauge idea. I haven't confirmed if what I was told was true, but I found a work around, so I'm good.

[ScorpionNinja]

Originally Posted by mikecronis

I've noticed the fuel gauge on the 250R-J is a bit pessimistic. Upon "E" I still have 100 miles of range. True "E" is hard on the peg after about 45 miles. Anyone else gettin' this?

Ditto!

Well not quite the same amount of mileage, but close to yours also!

My gas gauge has been like that since day 1,
1.5 yrs and 8,000 miles later its STILL the same!

[ScorpionNinja]

Originally Posted by Samer

I haven't run to E or anywhere near it. I think if you do a search, you'll see a thread or two about how many miles people get out of a tank. I did notice that it is a bit pessimistic, but I tend to fill at about 220 miles or so on the trip meter. And when, I fill it up, it is significantly less than 4 gallons. I calculate the milage most times and it is in the 50 mpg range. Resetting the trip meter each time you fill up is a good alternative and additional way to judge when it is time to refill.

yea, wtf...

Ive ran on vapors once, and only filled up with like 4.12 gallons!

4.8 gallon Tank, MY ASS!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ScorpionNinja

Ive ran on vapors once, and only filled up with like 4.12 gallons!

4.8 gallon Tank, MY ASS!

how do you know you were running on vapors if you never ran out of gas?

while the fuel gauge is almost worthless to calculate how much gas is left, I would much rather it be pessimistic than optimistic.

I always just use the trip meter to determine when it's time to fuel up.

[250rStar]

omg are you guys serious!! 200 miles!!! wtf is up with mine, i always fill it up to the rim when it gets to the tiny line before E and i never get more then 110 miles! and thats if i stay out of the throttle jeez guys just wtf

[kkim]

Originally Posted by 250rStar

omg are you guys serious!! 200 miles!!! wtf is up with mine, i always fill it up to the rim when it gets to the tiny line before E and i never get more then 110 miles! and thats if i stay out of the throttle jeez guys just wtf

how many gallons go in when that happens?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by kkim

I looked into buying a WT gauge from the FI new gen and I was told the water temp info that is sent to that water temp gauge on the new gens comes from the bike's computer. It's not connected to a signal that comes directly from a sender.

When I heard that, I installed the Daytona water temp gauge instead and dropped the FI temp gauge idea. I haven't confirmed if what I was told was true, but I found a work around, so I'm good.

Any chance the guage can be disassembled and the needle itself relocated?

[randomwalk101]

Dude it's not the gauge, it's the sensor mang!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Dude it's not the gauge, it's the sensor mang!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

I understand that...lol

Just wondering if we can adjust the guage to the sensors error...

[Alex]

Hi Jason -

Those that have taken apart the sensor (from past threads) have made it seem like what you're suggesting (modifying the gauge reading) won't work. The sensor is sending an "empty" when the tank isn't empty. Moving the gauge up to show 1/3 full, would then mean that it would stay at 1/3 full even as the tank itself goes down all the way to empty.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Alex

Hi Jason -

Those that have taken apart the sensor (from past threads) have made it seem like what you're suggesting (modifying the gauge reading) won't work. The sensor is sending an "empty" when the tank isn't empty. Moving the gauge up to show 1/3 full, would then mean that it would stay at 1/3 full even as the tank itself goes down all the way to empty.

Thanks Alex I'll be sticking with the odometer!

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Any chance the guage can be disassembled and the needle itself relocated?

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Just wondering if we can adjust the guage to the sensors error...

Originally Posted by Alex

Those that have taken apart the sensor (from past threads) have made it seem like what you're suggesting (modifying the gauge reading) won't work.

I would be one of those people.

The fuel level sender uses a coil and a wiper, with the coil stationary and the wiper attached to a long arm float.

Part of the problem with making any adjustments to the gauge is that the sense coil is wound in a differential manner to compensate for the shape of the tank (and yes, a good one will indicate properly, showing about 1 gallon per tick, or about a 4 gallon spread from FULL to EMPTY). The sense coils are closer together on one end than they are on the other end, and that's how the shape of the tank and variable useage/volume of fuel is compensated for.

Another issue is that the wire often shifts on the coil backer, even if the wire isn't stretched.* The usual indication of this problem is inconsistent readings at any fuel level. Rock the bike from side to side and it'll remain stable, but it should shift a little rocked front to back. If you get nearly no change rocking front to back with about 1/2 to 1/3rd tank AND inconsistent readings when you KNOW you're full or KNOW you're empty, you might have streched or shifting sense wires.

Yet another issue is that the tension on the wiper is such that it often stretches the wire on the backer, making for inconsistent readings. * The usual indication of this problem is the gas gauge hanging up at one particular reading, then suddenly dropping (or not) once you go over a heavy bump, or rises only from where it's stuck to full when you gas up.

Further, the sense button on the end of the wiper is very soft, so that over time it rubs off onto the sense coil, shorting across some of the wires, and reducing sensitivity and giving false readings. * The usual indication of this problem is that the fuel level indicated remains relatively constant from full until it goes dead flat empty.

If your fuel gauge is not reading properly as above, you could have any or ALL of the above issues.

The needle is only displaying what it's told by the sender. To find out what problem you have (and thus how to properly adjust the gauge, if possible), you have to remove the sender. Once you do that, you're already 1/2 there to replacing it anyway, with no way to ensure another of the problems won't occur later on.

Originally Posted by Banzai

Well documented issue, like the CDI faults. The only fix is to replace the sender.

Costs less than $30 for a good ebay part, and less than 30 minutes start to finish to swap out.

Pull the fairings, pull the tank, pull the sender.....reverse. Ride.

Or use the Odo, as indicated above.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by kkim

I looked into buying a WT gauge from the FI new gen and I was told the water temp info that is sent to that water temp gauge on the new gens comes from the bike's computer. It's not connected to a signal that comes directly from a sender.

You would think on a normal FI bike, but they have digital gauges.

On the FI 250r the temp sensor is two parts. One part is for the ECM, and the other for the gauge.

Will have to check, but I'll bet the meters are the same(fuel/temp)..... just a different face

In the pic, D = ECM & E = temp gauge

[kkim]

you could very well be correct. My info was from a dealer in England... he may not have known what he was talking about.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by kkim

you could very well be correct. My info was from a dealer in England... he may not have known what he was talking about.

People in the UK dont know what the hell there talking about... LOL
That info is out of the FI manual, you would think it was correct

Gauge between the two are a tad diff.
temp - 120deg is 210 ohms, 248deg 21 ohms.
Fuel - Empty is 100 ohms, full 10 ohms.....

Now we need somebody in the UK that knows whats up, to get us some parts

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by HKr1

People in the UK dont know what the hell there talking about... LOL
That info is out of the FI manual, you would think it was correct

Gauge between the two are a tad diff.
temp - 120deg is 210 ohms, 248deg 21 ohms.
Fuel - Empty is 100 ohms, full 10 ohms.....

Now we need somebody in the UK that knows whats up, to get us some parts

ok, im no good with technical eletctonic terms/understanding... i just installed the Koso speedo gauge;





anyhow, i need to know what ohms Ω i need to progam in. it has a range from 100Ω to 510Ω, atm its set at 100Ω, is that correct for our Ninjettes?

Thanx!

[patzcool]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

ok, im no good with technical eletctonic terms/understanding... i just installed the Koso speedo gauge;





anyhow, i need to know what ohms Ω i need to progam in. it has a range from 100Ω to 510Ω, atm its set at 100Ω, is that correct for our Ninjettes?

Thanx!

yeah... i like it... it's correct bro... I allready try at 510, it didn't drop altough the tank empty..

[SCREEM]

I hit the trip meter reset at every fill up, there is usually 250 miles on it. 61mpg on the last tank. Mine stays on "E" for the last 60 miles.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by SCREEM

I hit the trip meter reset at every fill up, there is usually 250 miles on it. 61mpg on the last tank. Mine stays on "E" for the last 60 miles.

Risky business but I guess you would know your bike better than me...

[martinizing]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

ok, im no good with technical eletctonic terms/understanding... i just installed the Koso speedo gauge;





anyhow, i need to know what ohms Ω i need to progam in. it has a range from 100Ω to 510Ω, atm its set at 100Ω, is that correct for our Ninjettes?

Thanx!

What model is that ?

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by martinizing

What model is that ?

its a Koso RX2-n
replacement speedometer, with a custom bracket and voltmeter, Matt (ztrack157) can get them for you but he would have to send it over to Peru and that might be a problem, and add to the expenses

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=150
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=152

more pics and info on those link there