[webbikeworld.com] - Flo Stainless Steel Reusable Oil Filter Review

[Ninjette Newsbot]

Many benefits of this reusable oil filter and here is why.

Click here for full story...

[allanoue]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[dcj13]

Yuk!

First: it's $120. Yikes!
Second, I'd be cleaning icky stuff off the element. What a mess.
Third: that cleaning takes time and effort.

This is analogous to the metal mesh filter that came with my Mr. Coffee that I threw away. I use the paper disposable filters: don't even have to touch them when I dump the grounds into the trash.

It does look cool, though. Too bad our Ninjette (and K75 and KLR250 and SL500 and Saturn and XJ8) filters aren't even visible to the casual observer.

[Brother Michigan]

I think I'd wait to see some real lab analysis to see if this thing actually filters as well as a filter with synthetic media. Color me extremely skeptical.

[ninjamunky85]

I've read about stainless steel filters for dirt bikes. Some people like them because of they're re usable and because they can't be crushed or torn. I decided against them though as it seems that they don't filter to as fine of a level as paper filters.

They state that their filter catches particles as small as 35 microns, but most paper filters are rated at 20-25 microns. Stainless steel filters do have their fans, so maybe it doesn't matter. I'll continue to use paper filters though because they're cheap and they work, i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Yuk!

First: it's $120. Yikes!
Second, I'd be cleaning icky stuff off the element. What a mess.
Third: that cleaning takes time and effort.

This is analogous to the metal mesh filter that came with my Mr. Coffee that I threw away. I use the paper disposable filters: don't even have to touch them when I dump the grounds into the trash.

It does look cool, though. Too bad our Ninjette (and K75 and KLR250 and SL500 and Saturn and XJ8) filters aren't even visible to the casual observer.

I could not care less about looks. Coffee grounds go into the garbage disposal and the filter goes into the dish washer. For this filter I would go with a soak in a bucket of water and a bit of Dawn soap.

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

I think I'd wait to see some real lab analysis to see if this thing actually filters as well as a filter with synthetic media. Color me extremely skeptical.

Color me intrigued but waiting to see.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by dcj13

First: it's $120. Yikes!

They sell them on Amazon for ~$90

Originally Posted by allanoue

For this filter I would go with a soak in a bucket of water and a bit of Dawn soap.

Think you'd want to use something stronger than that. They recommend kerosene or some kind of solvent.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

They sell them on Amazon for ~$90




Think you'd want to use something stronger than that. They recommend kerosene or some kind of solvent.

And a K&N paper filter is what $5?

You're looking at 18 filters for the price of buying one, that's before you begin pissing about trying to clean it, buy solvents to clean it, work out how to remove the accumulated metal from the metal filter...

If you're doing the oil & filter every 3,000 miles it's 54,000 before the filter is economically viable, before the cost of cleaning materials or the extra time involved.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

And a K&N paper filter is what $5?

You're looking at 18 filters for the price of buying one, that's before you begin pissing about trying to clean it, buy solvents to clean it, work out how to remove the accumulated metal from the metal filter...

If you're doing the oil & filter every 3,000 miles it's 54,000 before the filter is economically viable, before the cost of cleaning materials or the extra time involved.

Best price I can find is 11.99 for the K&N so 22.5k miles and you are at brake even. For me that is 2 years.

[NevadaWolf]

as the webBikeWorld article pointed out, its not just the cost of the filter. Before I found Napa carried one, the closest place for me to pick one up was 60 miles away. Or add in shipping if ordering.

Going with the cost of the Scotts filter, the Reno source would take me only 10k miles to make it break even, locally about 50k. So, two years also for me.

I was looking at it since I have to do my oil changes so frequently (and I need to look up the law for tossing used filters) but how to clean it was confusing as to what to clean it in and how to dispose of the oil/solvent/water/soap mixture.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Best price I can find is 11.99 for the K&N so 22.5k miles and you are at brake even. For me that is 2 years.

past midnight here, I was thinking in £ & typing in $...

You can get a 250 filter (KN401 or equal fit) for £5 that's about $8, the price is one downside, the other is how do you clean it out & decontaminate it before putting it back, that turns a half hour job into an all day job...

[ninjamunky85]

Well I did a little more research on these and decided to take the plunge. Ordered one for the 300 from Amazon for $89 w/ free shipping. Should be here tomorrow but I probably won't install it until next spring since I just changed the oil.

I plan on keeping the bike for a long time and I was paying ~$10 for the OEM oil filters so I should see a return on my investment in a few years. Plus I like the idea of not throwing away a used filter every oil change.

It seems that a good bit of the cost of this product actually goes into the billet housing for the filter, as the filters themselves aren't very expensive. If I like it I could get another for the ninja 250 for >$25 since it has an internal filter, so no external billet housing.

P.S. stick around for an update and pics.

[ninjamunky85]

So the filter arrived yesterday. It looks pretty cool, definitely a well manufactured piece and the fanciest oil filter I've ever seen. I don't plan on installing it until next season, but I'm really excited to see it on the bike so I don't know.






Hmmm... I guess I could just drain the oil into a clean container and reuse it.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

So the filter arrived yesterday. It looks pretty cool, definitely a well manufactured piece and the fanciest oil filter I've ever seen. I don't plan on installing it until next season, but I'm really excited to see it on the bike so I don't know.

Hmmm... I guess I could just drain the oil into a clean container and reuse it.

I read on a few reviews were guys pull off the filter without draining the pan.

DOIT

[Brother Michigan]

I've read up a bit about these and it seems my concerns may be well founded. The surface area of the filter element is much smaller than most conventional filters and it only filters particulate down to 2-3 times the size that will be caught by a conventional filter. I'd make sure to change the oil very often if I were using one.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I read on a few reviews were guys pull off the filter without draining the pan.

DOIT

Thanks for the tip that's exactly what I did. I thought it would make a big mess but I only lost a little bit of oil and only took a few minutes doing it that way.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

I've read up a bit about these and it seems my concerns may be well founded. The surface area of the filter element is much smaller than most conventional filters and it only filters particulate down to 2-3 times the size that will be caught by a conventional filter. I'd make sure to change the oil very often if I were using one.

I've done my research on these too and I was skeptical at first, but believe me I wouldn't just throw something like this on my bike just because it looks cool. These filters flow more than conventional filters, especially when cold, so they must have enough surface area to be effective. And while they do only filter to 35 microns they do it consistently across the entire surface, and while paper filters may catch smaller particles (down to 20 microns) tests show they also let much bigger particles through (up to 200 microns).

All that is just what the makers claim however and honestly they can claim almost anything they want. The thing that changed my mind and sold it for me though was all the positive real world reviews. Of the hundreds of reviews on various sites there are very few negative ones. If these filters can be used by harley riders for 100k miles trouble free, or a ktm adventure bike for almost as many, then they should be fine for our bikes too.

[Brother Michigan]

Just to get my nit-picking out of the way first, these filters flow more because they filter less. There's no way to get around that. With less surface area you must have larger holes in the filtering media to maintain high flow rates. Since oil flow rates are not a problem in anything but the most abused conventional filters, it's not really a plus for anyone who takes care of their regular maintenance.

The main issue I have with the claims against "paper" filters is that most high-quality filters are not paper, but rather a synthetic material that is likely much more regular than paper would be.

The fact that one of these filters lasts in a bike for a long period of time is not indicative of anything; as I mentioned above, with regular, short oil change intervals they probably do just fine, but I wouldn't go my usual interval with a filter like this.

*EDIT* One way to convince me one way or the other would be to do a used oil analysis after an oil change interval with both filters. That would tell you very quickly whether or not the filter is doing its job well. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there to suggest that this sort of analysis could be very enlightening.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Just to get my nit-picking out of the way first, these filters flow more because they filter less. There's no way to get around that. With less surface area you must have larger holes in the filtering media to maintain high flow rates. Since oil flow rates are not a problem in anything but the most abused conventional filters, it's not really a plus for anyone who takes care of their regular maintenance.

The main issue I have with the claims against "paper" filters is that most high-quality filters are not paper, but rather a synthetic material that is likely much more regular than paper would be.

The fact that one of these filters lasts in a bike for a long period of time is not indicative of anything; as I mentioned above, with regular, short oil change intervals they probably do just fine, but I wouldn't go my usual interval with a filter like this.

*EDIT* One way to convince me one way or the other would be to do a used oil analysis after an oil change interval with both filters. That would tell you very quickly whether or not the filter is doing its job well. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there to suggest that this sort of analysis could be very enlightening.

Only way you'll be convinced is if you buy the filter and run it yourself..

Paper filters are inconsistent in their particle size, so the consistency of 30-35 microns is pretty appealing.

[Roark]

@ninjamunky85, go out and ride 1000 miles and let us know how the filter performs.

[dcj13]

Does anyone make a cleanable, re-useable fuel filter?

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Does anyone make a cleanable, re-useable fuel filter?

http://www.knfilters.com/fuelfilter.htm

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Roark

@ninjamunky85, go out and ride 1000 miles and let us know how the filter performs.

Here's the thing.

You can't prove a negative.

So you go run the bike for 1000 miles and nothing happens. What does that prove?

You could run your bike with NO filter and nothing would happen.

And how would you measure "performance?"

The only way to actually determine which type of filter does its job better is to do multiple runs of each type in the same engine, under the same conditions, and do an oil analysis.

Even then, you might not get anything useful. What thresholds will you set? What does success look like?

This can be done but it's not as simple as slapping it on there, going for a ride and saying "seems okay to me... thumbs up!!!"

Internet reviews are usually like this. Useless for this kind of thing -- you need data, not subjective impressions.

The real question isn't "how small a particle can the filter trap?" It's "How big does a particle need to be to actually damage your engine?"

I Googled that exact question and came up with something interesting. Take this for what it's worth... it's from a manufacturer of VERY fine (7 micron) filters.

http://www.oilguard.com/whareclpacs.html

[Brother Michigan]

That link is funny because it negates the greatest "knock" against the non-stainless filters (that it lets larger particles pass, which I think is probably a bogus claim anyhow). Also, it brings up the greatest unknown about the stainless filters, which is the efficiency with which they are able to remove contaminants of a given size.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

That link is funny because it negates the greatest "knock" against the non-stainless filters (that it lets larger particles pass, which I think is probably a bogus claim anyhow). Also, it brings up the greatest unknown about the stainless filters, which is the efficiency with which they are able to remove contaminants of a given size.

they claim 35 microns in one pass

[Ghostt]

I found this, and for the money, it's hard to beat it if your planning on keeping your bike for awhile. After all I have a K&N air filter, so why not get a reusable oil filter.

http://pcracingusa.3dcartstores.com/..._plusone_share

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by allanoue

they claim 35 microns in one pass

At what efficiency? If they claim they remove ALL contaminants larger than 35 microns in one pass, we can go ahead and claim this product bunk and move on.

Can you post up a link to this claim? I looked very briefly a while ago and couldn't find any hard information.

[ninjamunky85]

You can look at reports and test results until you're blue in the face, and since most of them come from someone trying to sell you something you don't really know who to trust anyway. Real world reviews are what really matter to me, like this

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=14

"I have 125,000 km on my KTM 690. It has the original piston. Since the 1st oil change it has had stainless steel filters.

If that's not a +1 for stainless. I'm not sure what is."


Given the fact that it'll take me probably 20 years to put that many miles on the 300 I don't think I have much to worry about. The cam chain would probably fail before that point anyway, since that seems to be the weak point of these engines.

I'm not telling anyone that they should switch to ss filters though. I like the idea and just ordered another one for my Husaberg since it was only ~$25 for that bike. But if you like traditional filter then keep using them, as I said before "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

I found this, and for the money, it's hard to beat it if your planning on keeping your bike for awhile. After all I have a K&N air filter, so why not get a reusable oil filter.

http://pcracingusa.3dcartstores.com/..._plusone_share

$10 cheaper on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/PC-Racing-Stai...401+oil+filter

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

$10 cheaper on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/PC-Racing-Stai...401+oil+filter

Thanks, well hell now I've gotta get one.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Can you post up a link to this claim? I looked very briefly a while ago and couldn't find any hard information.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/flo-oil-filter/

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

That link is funny because it negates the greatest "knock" against the non-stainless filters (that it lets larger particles pass, which I think is probably a bogus claim anyhow). Also, it brings up the greatest unknown about the stainless filters, which is the efficiency with which they are able to remove contaminants of a given size.

What about the claim that upon cold start up a normal oil filter lets unfiltered oil pass until the oil warms up enough that the bypass valve is no longer open? If that's the case then any size particle would be able to pass. I ride my bike in some pretty cold temps this time of year so I think it's a valid question.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by allanoue

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/flo-oil-filter/

A web bike world positive review, now I MUST HAVE ONE!!!!

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

You can look at reports and test results until you're blue in the face, and since most of them come from someone trying to sell you something you don't really know who to trust anyway. Real world reviews are what really matter to me, like this

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=14

"I have 125,000 km on my KTM 690. It has the original piston. Since the 1st oil change it has had stainless steel filters.

If that's not a +1 for stainless. I'm not sure what is."

Which proves exactly nothing. This is exactly the kind of real-world "review" that I was talking about. It's nothing but an anecdote with no data behind it.

If I were to change my oil religiously the moment it turns dark, I could run thousands and thousands of miles with no filtration whatsoever and get the exact same result. For that matter, if I changed my oil every 3k I'd probably not have any problem.

Are you aware that a lot of piston aircraft engines don't even have filters? (Admittedly they're air cooled with looser tolerances and run at low RPM, but still. NO filter, just a screen to catch big hunks of metal. The oil in those engines gets changed every 25 hours.)

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by adouglas

For that matter, if I changed my oil every 3k I'd probably not have any problem.

I do change my oil every 3k miles, sooo...

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

What about the claim that upon cold start up a normal oil filter lets unfiltered oil pass until the oil warms up enough that the bypass valve is no longer open? If that's the case then any size particle would be able to pass. I ride my bike in some pretty cold temps this time of year so I think it's a valid question.

You'll have the same issue with the SS filter, assuming its bypass pressure is the same. All I can see about this is that they claim to offer a "sophisticated", "progressive bypass" and then offer no data to show how it's supposed to work.

I can't help feeling that if it really was so much better as they claim that A) more companies would produce them (all of the ones available appear to be rebrands) and B) there would be some actual data available.

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by allanoue

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/flo-oil-filter/

I'm really looking for something NOT from a marketing team. There's no mention of efficiency ratings anywhere that I can find for these filters, something that I can find for pretty much any high-quality conventional filter on the market (as WBW says, K&N doesn't list their information, but I haven't used a K&N filter ever since their quality took a hit when they switched manufacturers a while back.)

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

You'll have the same issue with the SS filter, assuming its bypass pressure is the same.

They claim that you won't because of the increased flow. I don't have any way to test this though.

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

I can't help feeling that if it really was so much better as they claim that A) more companies would produce them (all of the ones available appear to be rebrands) and B) there would be some actual data available.

I can't help but feeling that if these filters were inferior and somehow lead to increased engine wear that (A) more people would be stating that stainless steel filters somehow harmed their engine (it's not like it's a new product, they've been around for years) and (B) that there would not be so many positive reviews from the people that are using them.

What studies have been done on the oil filters that you use? How can you be sure that they are as effective as they claim? Honestly who really has the time to find out?

Oh and btw,.. my oil filter was made in America. Where was yours made?

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

They claim that you won't because of the increased flow. I don't have any way to test this though.

Convenient, that.

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I can't help but feeling that if these filters were inferior and somehow lead to increased engine wear that (A) more people would be stating that stainless steel filters somehow harmed their engine (it's not like it's a new product, they've been around for years) and (B) that there would not be so many positive reviews from the people that are using them.

What studies have been done on the oil filters that you use? How can you be sure that they are as effective as they claim? Honestly who really has the time to find out?

I'm a lot more willing to put my faith in a manufacturer that actually releases the data, even if it's in-house. Also, what data are those positive reviews relying on? "Oh, my bike hasn't exploded yet, so it must be superior!" There's an inherent logical flaw in accepting these statements as proof.

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Oh and btw,.. my oil filter was made in America. Where was yours made?

Japan, like my motorcycle (ok, the motorcycle was assembled in India, but the point is the same.)

[fishdip]

bad idea? or good idea? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009TFBDFS/...&dra_ohs=24-48