How does this tire profile look to you?

[corksil]

It looks like the tire is too tall for the size of the rim to me.

I've been staring at this for too long, I need a second opinion.

It's a 110/70 on a 17 x 3.50" rim.

[Triple Jim]

I don't see anything odd. What's the manufacturer's recommended rim width for that tire?

[dcj13]

Looks acceptable to me.

[SLOWn60]

The brake rotor is so small it makes the tire look huge! I like the convenient combination lift strap/brake line too!
Nothing wrong with the tire size: that's what most of us had on for Supermoto.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

I don't see anything odd. What's the manufacturer's recommended rim width for that tire?

3 inches. They are the same tires I run on the front of my ninja 250 (2.75 rim).

Originally Posted by dcj13

Looks acceptable to me.

"acceptable" and "best" are not the same thing. A bigger tire means a slower bike due to the increased weight. Sure, it "works" but I'm not sure it works "best."

It's the same argument about converting spoked wheels to tube-less. People say to use a tube in the tire and don't try to re-invent the wheel, but using a tube adds a lot more weight than a tube-less setup which results in a significant handling hindrance.

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

The brake rotor is so small it makes the tire look huge! I like the convenient combination lift strap/brake line too!
Nothing wrong with the tire size: that's what most of us had on for Supermoto.

Lol yeah, there's no brake rotor in that picture. Big brakes are also on the list of things to figure out but most performance companies don't dicker with mini-bike kits. They probably assume that the big kids ride big bikes, and have big dollars, but that isn't always the case.

Thanks guys I've found a few tires which might work but I need to do more research before I can order anything.

[Triple Jim]

With a 3.5" rim, I don't know how you're going to do any better than the one in the photo, unless you want a really low profile tire for some reason. The one you have now is probably acting like a 60 or 65 profile because of the slightly wider rim than recommended.

[Snake]

Looks good to me!

[Abu_Mishary]

Ship it to Malaysia, I will take it for a spin and give my best opinion on this.

[JohnnyBravo]

Looks good

["A"]

Originally Posted by corksil

"acceptable" and "best" are not the same thing. A bigger tire means a slower bike due to the increased weight. Sure, it "works" but I'm not sure it works "best."

It's the same argument about converting spoked wheels to tube-less. People say to use a tube in the tire and don't try to re-invent the wheel, but using a tube adds a lot more weight than a tube-less setup which results in a significant handling hindrance.

How "fast" are you planning to ride?
Does the difference between different profile/weight tires going to slow you down that much that you can't live with it? Do you race for a living? as a professional that profit from being faster?

If not, then I'd say it's more important to know what works for you, under your riding conditions, not what works to go fast only on a race track.

[akima]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

I like the convenient combination lift strap/brake line too!

You're joking right?!

[Triple Jim]

I'm pretty sure he is, Akima... although those braided lines are pretty strong.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

I'm pretty sure he is, Akima... although those braided lines are pretty strong.

I cringe when lifting my wheel off the ground using the kickstand. When I read that I was like

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by akima

You're joking right?!

Not that I have any expertise: I've just never seen a brake line routed like that! I shudder to think how easily it could catch on something! Also; it's very hard for me to resist swinging at softball pitches!

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

With a 3.5" rim, I don't know how you're going to do any better than the one in the photo, unless you want a really low profile tire for some reason. The one you have now is probably acting like a 60 or 65 profile because of the slightly wider rim than recommended.

So by stretching the tire and installing it on a wider rim than recommended, the tire actually gets taller?

My only other option that I've found is a 100/80-17. Would the 100/80-17 be a shorter tire? I'm referring to a side view like the picture. The "taller" tire would be larger overall diameter. The "shorter" tire would be smaller overall diameter.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by "A"

How "fast" are you planning to ride?
Does the difference between different profile/weight tires going to slow you down that much that you can't live with it? Do you race for a living? as a professional that profit from being faster?

If not, then I'd say it's more important to know what works for you, under your riding conditions, not what works to go fast only on a race track.

I'm running out of room in the rear. I have that tire mounted in the rear now on same size 17x3.5" rim and the chain/axle adjustment is halfway to the rear. If the chain were any shorter/newer, the rear axle would have to be further forward to tension it. If the tire goes forward any more, it will rub the swingarm in the center. I need a lower profile tire and I have found a 100/80 but I can't visualize how that will look once it's all mounted up.

If the 100/80 is smaller overall diameter (mounted on 3.5" wide rim), it will be an improvement because I will re-gain full range of chain adjustment.

My main concern is that mounting a 100/80 on a 3.5" wide rim will stretch the sidewall profile so far that if the bike were leaned over much, it would be riding on the absolute edge of the tire tread, or even past it. I picture it to be like having no chicken strip because the tire is stretched so far that normal riding and leaning would cause the rear wheel to ride on the absolute edge of the tire tread.

Worst case scenario -- the bike would be leaning over and suddenly I'd run out of tire and the rim lip would contact the ground, spitting the rider off instantly.

This is a complicated issue or maybe I'm over thinking it. Ideally I would have found a smaller 16 or 14" rear rim, but the tire compound choices in those sizes are crap.

[corksil]

I'm also hell-bent on making this bike rideable with the parts I've already got, which are 17" rims front and rear.

Currently with the 110/70, the rear tire sidewall profile is like a V shape. The tire bead is narrower than the edge of the tire tread. The tire comes off the rim in a \ / shape going up to the edge of the tread. It's a slight angle, but definitely not a | | sidewall shape.

If I mounted a 100/80, I think it would be very close to horizontal vertical sidewall profile. That is to say that the sidewalls would be | | parallel to eachother going up to the edge of the tire tread, or maybe even / \ stretched.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by corksil

So by stretching the tire and installing it on a wider rim than recommended, the tire actually gets taller?

You said the tire is a 70 aspect ratio. A 60 or 65 is less tall than a 70.

[corksil]

Yes, the tire in the picture is 110/70.

The tire I found that might work better is a 100/80.

I need a tire that is less tall than the one in the picture.

From your post directly above mine, it seems that you are saying a 100/80 would actually be more tall [taller] than the 110/70.

This crap has my head in a funk.

[corksil]

I drew a picture of how things currently fit with a 110/70 rear on a 3.5" wide rim.

The tire contacts the swingarm in the center if it's any further forward than half of the chain adjustment.

I need something which isn't as "tall" in the center, so it won't contact the swingarm.

How would a 100/80 fit in comparison?

[JohnnyBravo]

This reminds me of some anti gravity post :facepalm:

[Triple Jim]

A 110/70 tire is nominally 110 millimeters wide, and 0.7 times 110mm tall, so 77mm tall. A 100/80 is 100mm wide and 80mm tall.

[jrshooter]

i was looking for more clearence, bridgestone told me a150/60 is not as tall as a 140/70. dont know how this relates with your tire sizes

[jrshooter]

tripple jim, yes i am a idiot, your post clears it up.

[Zaph42]

if you're into serious cornering, I can tell you this: a 110/70 is the wrong tire for a 3.5" front rim. The tire profile is flattened out and the tire can run up on it's shoulder, which unlike the rear tire, the front is not designed to do. I put a 110 on a 3.5" front rim once and it was a mistake that lead me to a sudden unexpected low side. If it helps, I can dig up some pictures to show you the problems with the profile.

[Zaph42]

This is the time I put a 110/70 on to a 3.5" front rim. See how my wear pattern goes all the way to the edge? That should only be happening on a rear tire, where the shoulder is specifically designed to enlarge the contact patch at the extreme of lean angle. Generally, a well designed front and rear combo will have the entire rear tread used and about a 1/4" chicken strip in the front.

Also note in this picture how my sidewalls are almost vertical. Or | | as described.If side walls are parallel, that's a good sign that the tire is too narrow on that rim and getting stretched out.



View from the front. This is not a good profile. With the tire stretched onto this rim, my front lean angle is limited. The view from the front should have the tire looking more roundwith less visible "edge shoulders".



In general, don't worry as much about height of the tire as having the correct profile. And as mentioned, none of this really applies for casual around town riding. This stuff matters when ripping hard, such as on a racetrack by an experienced racer. Someone who can regularly hit 55 degree lean angles. The 110 tire on 3.5" rim shown above can only support a 45 degree lean angle before the risk of lowside shows up.

Yeah, I low sided. Good thing I was at a kart track. I laughed, picked my bike up and went on my way.

[corksil]

Good info.

First pic is chain adjustment range.

Second pic is 110/70 on same 3.5 rim swingarm clearance.

[corksil]

After reading and re-reading this thread numerous times I realize that these really are the wrong rims for this bike. The entire project has been a learning experience, and the knowledge gained from it makes it worthwhile.

Zaph -- your info has been absolutely crucial to my understanding of this. Somehow you arrange your words in such a way that things click in my brain and it makes perfect sense.

Seems that in the rear I just don't have enough width between the swingarm to put on a wider tire. In the front, the tire is indeed too pinched. I know the feeling of "running out of tire" in a corner from wearing out ninja rear tires. Once they get squared off in the middle, if you lean the bike over past the squared off part, it feels like the bike suddenly falls over in the turn as you transition from the squared center to the thick un-worn edge of the tire.

The bike has carb issues.. which need to be sorted out before I can actually "ride" it, so that has to happen first. This was a commuter project, designed for cheap transportation around town. I don't think it's going to see any serious track riding. Too much hassle to get the bike in the truck and take it to the "track" for a few laps. I'm sure I'll do it eventually and I'll probably learn a lot more once I do.

Perhaps it's best for me to mount a 110/70 front and rear and see what the piston to tire wear ratio is.

Anyways, thank you all.

[corksil]

Okay here's a follow-up.

This is a 100/80 on 3.5" wide rim.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...2kxaDlJVk92U0E

Sidewall profile is hard to see due to sh!++y picture but sidewalls are roughly parallel.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...mNHSjQ1Mzd4SWc

For comparison, this is 110/70 sidewall profile on 3.5" rim.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...XBLV1FycENuLWc

This is 110/70 on 2.75" rim which is ideal sidewall profile (about 30 degrees).
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...lNfaFJhTkxOWlk

This should not exist because it is entirely unorthodox and probably very dangerous, but the bike handled alright with this setup for 50 miles. 1.40" knobby tire on 3.50" rim. The gold vertical lines on each side of the tire.... those are the rim.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...Vc5MnhTZUpWM0E

If anyone has any bright ideas, now would be the time to share them. Right now it's a matter of making the bike usable with the parts that are already installed. Tire sizes are the only remaining variable. Tubes are on the way.

A 110/70 rear and 100/80 front seem like the best option in terms of tire profile.

Still need to sort out the carb but parts are on the way.

[Mohawk]

Optical illusion, pictures really are a crap way to compare stuff.

[corksil]

Yeah, well... how else am I supposed to compare this stuff?

Tubes will be here weds and I plan on having everything figured out by then so I can assemble the wheels for the last time and start wearing out the tires.