area p tuner question

[jaybo]

K briant, dose your tuner allow for timing curve adjustments? If not on the tuner do your custom tunes change the timing curve/advance? IE can I get an 87 tune and a 93 or even race gas tune with more timing for more power.

[kbryant]

Originally Posted by jaybo

K briant, dose your tuner allow for timing curve adjustments? If not on the tuner do your custom tunes change the timing curve/advance? IE can I get an 87 tune and a 93 or even race gas tune with more timing for more power.

No we do not adjust timing with our FI Micro Programmer. That being said, it is doubtful that we would adjust the A/F curve for fuel between 87 - 93 octane. But for Low Octane, High Oxygen content Race Fuels - yes, those maps will be part of the program as continuous maps are developed over time.

Below are some quotes from questions/answers in our Area P Exhaust Thread that may be of help.

#88 Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehbs300
Hey guys I have a pretty limited knowledge of fuels and tuning but
I live in Australia and our premium fuel here is 98 octane versus premium in the us being 92 octane. Does having a higher octane level mean there is a possibility for a better map? Will area P be making a map for 98octane fuel? Or is the slight octane difference not enough to have an impact on the tune?

The short answer is - No, there will not be a different map related to your specific example. That being said, it is very common to produce less power when running higher octane fuels than the engine tune is set up for. Using 87 octane will likely produce the best power in this example. Running anything higher is simply a waste of fuel and money.

#90 Quote:
Originally Posted by Surferboy120
Is it because the ign advance is already so high on these motors? With the K series engines (car engine) we see good power increases from higher ign which requires the higher oct to fight detonation.

Not necessarily. It's really a combination of many things, including the stock compression ratio. Answering his particular question as based on a fuel/octane rating. But yes, in your particular example with a K-series car engine, there are benefits to be had as well. We experiment all the time with our WRX/STI & EVO Turbo kits, but we also incorporate water and/or methanol injection into the equation as well.

We normally stay away from altering timing on most modern street bike/street driven applications. It simply opens up too many possible bad scenarios of tune. Excessive timing can be the most frequent cause of detonation, which makes bad things happen to your engine (like when you start seeing aluminum speckles on your spark plugs...). It can also have a really obvious effect on performance in the wrong tuners hands. So we focus on A/F mapping in most cases, which will be based on the oem/stock ignition curve. We want to assure maximum reliability and longevity on street bikes.

That being said - on a Racebike, it's common that we may/will adjust the timing based on the compression, fuel being used (unleaded, leaded, oxygen content, octane, etc.) and so on, before we attempt to really get the baseline FI mapping we create to yield the optimum power output. But this also depends on so many things as well; how the rider utilizes the throttle, is he off/on, smooth, etc., and how long at full load/WOT. We can take more chances and experiment more; simply because we accept that we will be taking engines apart frequently to diagnose the results of our experimenting and the riders’ abuse of it . This is where that delicate balance is of what we see on the Dyno, to what actually occurs on the race track.

#157 Quote:
Originally Posted by diwhiteii
Perfect! I am in. I will want to get the pod filters as well. As this is what I have on my custom fuel injection Ninja 250R. Do you think the Power Command V with ignition controls will provide a little more torque if you advance the timing? Otherwise I will do the micro fuel moto?

As stated in post (90), we really just stick with just A/F mapping. We just don't see huge differences when adjusting timing in most cases, along with the potential consequences noted. When Dynojet adjusted timing on the euro 250I version, they did not note any significant changes. So there is the "assuming" the 300 will be similar in that regard. We've seen excellent increases across the board with A/F mapping. We'll be sticking with that for now.

That being said, when we get the bike and production systems to Fuelmoto for additional map R&D, and to also test the airbox delete mod, they will also be checking timing adjustments on a PCV. It's always possible to see additional improvments with Timing, but it will be surprising if it does.

The FI Micro Programmer is the way to go. It's smaller, user friendly, and costs about $60 or so (street price) less than a PCV. You also get a two year warranty on it.

[jaybo]

Thank you for the info