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Old November 3rd, 2020, 07:08 PM   #1
DannoXYZ
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Danno's ultimate track build

PHASE-1 - 60bhp, 250-lbs w/1-gal in tank

Following-up from this thread: Honda RS250R season maintenance?

Having gotten within 5-sec of track-record for 4T 250, I'm ready for next step up. I'm pursuing max-performance on track with minimal costs. More challenging than just buying $10k, $30k or $100k off-the-shelf bike. Although Honda NSF250R is very attractive.

Some design-criterium:
  • not based on street-bike, too many compromises with heavy frame weight and street geometry
  • lightweight, improves braking & cornering, can't really buy any street-bike that's light
  • easy power-upgrades. That's sticky-point for so, so many street-based bikes. Only so many things you can do for limited bumps in power
  • field-rebuildable. If I hole piston at track, I want to be able to replace it and get back on track same day, at worse, next day.

Some design-specs, allowing for future doubling of power:
  • geometry = ~23.5 head-angle, 90-100mm trail for better feel
  • wheelbase = 52-53"/1320-1346mm
  • engine = +60bhp and less than 75-lbs


With that in mind, I'm going to park this here...


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; November 3rd, 2020 at 10:11 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2020, 07:59 PM   #2
jrshooter
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are you looking at a 350 2 stroke motor for this build?
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Old January 17th, 2021, 04:05 PM   #3
Kowalski
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Good luck bud! Those NSF250R’s are super cool. Pretty pricey though. Do you know what frame and engine you’re starting with?
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Old January 18th, 2021, 01:46 AM   #4
DannoXYZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrshooter View Post
are you looking at a 350 2 stroke motor for this build?
Sorry I missed this question. Yup, I got used NSR250R MC21 frame & gullwing swingarm.




Frame & swingarm arm are more optimised for track than overbuilt Ninja 250 frame. It doesn't have to ever carry passenger, so it weighs 1/2 as much (frame+swingarm is over 30lbs lighter!). Yet is stiffer vertically and softer laterally.

Then installing stock RZ350 engine for 60bhp (had to chop frame little bit). My main concern with original plan to buy RS250R was maintenance schedule. So I chose engine with great power-to-weigh ratio that can go at least 10k-miles between rebuilds. It weighs less than Ninja 250 engine and puts out TWICE as much power.

There's incredible aftermarket support and I can upgrade to 100bhp easily. Best news is every single part of engine, even crank and cylinders have aftermarket replacement! So I can build an engine from aftermarket parts if needed!!!

So target for 1st iteration is 60bhp @ 260-280lbs (i've backed off from CF wheels). Then next step in year or so is 100bhp @ 240-260lbs.
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Old January 18th, 2021, 02:04 AM   #5
DannoXYZ
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Originally Posted by Kowalski View Post
Good luck bud! Those NSF250Rs are super cool. Pretty pricey though. Do you know what frame and engine youre starting with?
Thanks! Guy racing NSF250R in AFM was getting lap-times similar to 600 Supersport, about 10-15 sec/lap faster than me in Ninja 250. I should be able to beat it with this!
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Old January 18th, 2021, 02:23 PM   #6
jrshooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Thanks! Guy racing NSF250R in AFM was getting lap-times similar to 600 Supersport, about 10-15 sec/lap faster than me in Ninja 250. I should be able to beat it with this!
thats going to be pretty bad ass, Danny.
cant wait to see it at the track you might just get bike jacked by me.
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Old January 19th, 2021, 10:37 PM   #7
DannoXYZ
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Originally Posted by jrshooter View Post
thats going to be pretty bad ass, Danny.
cant wait to see it at the track you might just get bike jacked by me.
Ahhahahah!!!!

I was hoping to race it in 350-Superbike, but I'm not sure if they'll allow me. Might be F3 only. Which sometimes has 1 or 2 competitors. Many times, Joe Baker was only one out there with his TZ250 in F2.

We're going to have some more entries this year thanks to Julian Farnam of A•N•D AK-1 EX500 fame. He's building trellis-frame bikes using RZ350 engines for AFM-racing and I think 2 of them are spoken for already! Should be interesting beast as RZ350 engine's 40-lbs lighter than EX500 for same power-output.
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Old January 25th, 2021, 08:35 AM   #8
sharky nrk
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Watching this with great anticipation. Should be amazing.
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Old February 2nd, 2021, 11:51 AM   #9
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interesting concept. These thoughts have been running around in my cranium for a few seasons now. I put together an Aprillia 250 cup bike with the RZ350 engine. It was great until the trans let go. parts are at the unobtainable point now. Then I thought a 450 MX engine in the Ninja250 chasis. Aside from the short gearing I cant think of a reason not to.
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Old February 3rd, 2021, 11:08 AM   #10
DannoXYZ
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Good to hear from you Bruce!!!

You can install Banshee trans into RZ350 engine. First 3 gears have closer spread while top 3 gears have bigger spread. Will need to increase sprocket-ratios to get same top-gear. There's even guy in Europe making custom-gears in any ratios you want. Should use RZ shift-drum and forks, seems to operate a little slicker. Pro-Mod trans shift best with undercut dogs. Some Banshee transmissions for sale.

Great idea on 450 engine. There's talk of using Honda 450 engine too.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; February 5th, 2021 at 10:16 AM.
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Old March 4th, 2021, 11:28 AM   #11
punishum808
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Whoa, just saw this, nice build DanO.
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