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Old March 28th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #81
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This is the default setting from the factory! But why would it be different for each cylinder? Just so confusing!
Emissions. It's set as lean as possible at idle speed (along with the KLEEN), but still allow relatively smooth operation. Remember, I mentioned that the needles have 2 different part numbers ? They are also very slightly different.

Why do we set both the screws at 2.5 turns? Cause nobody rides around at idle speed.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 06:34 PM   #82
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MOTM - May '15
From your experiences, by looking at the pictures I've posted, do you think it is necessary for me to really clean the carbs?

I took off the main jets and saw daylight through the tiny tiny tiny holes. Not a speck of dirt.

However, I did not take off the smaller (pilot??) jets. Should I take those of just for the sake of it just to double check?

Also, would I be able to test the floats? Can I pour some water down the tube (that connects to the petcock), and see if it flows to the carbs correctly?

Then, when I raise the floats, I guess I can see if that will stop the flow of the water. Would that be the reason that I may have gasoline in my motor? If the floats aren't stopping the flow of gas into the carbs, would that excess gas flow straight into the motor?

Also, would running too rich or too lean cause gas to flow into the motor, down to the crankcase that houses the motor oil?
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Old March 29th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #83
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Since you've got the carbs out an open, it wouldn't hurt to inspect/clean the pilot jets. I don't think you have a pilot jet issue. If you did, a poor idle would stick out like a sore thumb and most times the bike only runs with the choke on.

If your floats are an issue you have fuel in the oil right now. Do you? Since you've fixed the petcock, you can rule out the floats.

Running too rich would not put gas in your crankcase, however if the engine is too cold, gas will not vaporize properly for combustion. Basically the unvaporized gas may stick to the cylinder walls not be burned properly. This can also be a source of your oil smelling like gas.

In the cold temps you are riding in, you may want to let your engine warm up a little bit more than you have been, and use the choke to help the process. A hot engine is more fuel efficient. I believe your gas mileage problem is occurring in the first couple of miles of your ride. If most of your rides are as short as the video, your bike is barely up to a real good operating temp.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 07:46 PM   #84
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MOTM - May '15
Pilot jets look good. Clean as a whistle. I see 4 tiny tiny holes. No blockage what so ever.

I *may* have fuel in the oil. My last oil change was 100 miles ago. I do smell a tiny bit of gasoline in the oil (put my nose to the oil fill hole). Is this normal? Or should the oil smell like motor oil and have no hint of fuel?

However, from the glass, oil level looks normal. Maybe just a tad more than before. Would 100 miles be too little mileage for gas to make its way in there?

Unfortunately all my rides are under 5 miles. None on the interstate.

Ok, I think I'll just cross my fingers and reinstall everything tomorrow. I'll throw the old plugs back on and take it for a spin.

I think I'll hit the interstate and use the mile markers to see if my odometer is correct.

It will be in the high 40s this coming week. I'll see if I have more time to take it for a longer ride. Would a 10 mile ride be no longer considered "short"?

PS - I also tested the floats. They seem to be functioning properly. Tightened the drain bolts and poured water into the hose (that leads to the petcock). Once the bowls were full, the water backed up to the hose (where the petcock would've been).

I also took the bowls off and manually pushed up each float and it completely blocked the water from entering.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #85
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Alright....any tips on reassembly? I would like to put some lube onto the boots (motor to carbs) and (airbox to carbs) to aid the installation process.

What lube is acceptable? I have lithium grease, wd40 and Aquaphor.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 08:01 PM   #86
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If you had a really bad issue with fuel getting in your oil, the oil level will tell it. A slight smell of fuel in the oil is probably nothing to worry about. Take the bike out for a long ride (10 + miles is good) and get it heated up to burn off any tiny amount of fuel residuals.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 08:03 PM   #87
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Alright....any tips on reassembly? I would like to put some lube onto the boots (motor to carbs) and (airbox to carbs) to aid the installation process.

What lube is acceptable? I have lithium grease, wd40 and Aquaphor.
Soak the boots in hot water.
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Old March 31st, 2014, 09:50 AM   #88
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MOTM - May '15
Hot water and a space heater did the job. Everything back on. Just waiting for spark plugs and air filter to be delivered now.
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Old March 31st, 2014, 09:56 AM   #89
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Hot water and a space heater did the job. Everything back on. Just waiting for spark plugs and air filter to be delivered now.


Did you get Iridium Plugs? You know Advance Auto has them.
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Old March 31st, 2014, 12:21 PM   #90
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MOTM - May '15
I was thinking about iridium plugs. But I decided OEM instead.

Would it be safe to assume it came pregapped correctly from the factory?
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Old March 31st, 2014, 12:45 PM   #91
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....Would it be safe to assume it came pregapped correctly from the factory?
Most come pre gaped within Kawi specs, but it never hurts to double check.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 12:46 AM   #92
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Sorry if this has already been covered; float needle and seats can get gummed up enough to not stop fuel from overfilling your float bowl/reservoire.

That will definitely lead to a rich condition.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 02:42 AM   #93
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if not too late, check the spring on the diaphragm has not been crushed when the carbs were out last owner
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Old April 1st, 2014, 09:39 AM   #94
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This thread has been helpful as in the middle of pulling carbs out to fir a factory pro jet kit on the race bike.



ClusterF*** of epic proportions just to remove them

but does anybody know what the coolant lines that go to carby are for? one from the lhs pipe from water pump goes to lhs float bowl, and one from the thermostat thru a clear plastic tank thingy to the rhs carby bowl?

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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:02 AM   #95
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This thread has been helpful as in the middle of pulling carbs out to fir a factory pro jet kit on the race bike.



ClusterF*** of epic proportions just to remove them

but does anybody know what the coolant lines that go to carby are for? one from the lhs pipe from water pump goes to lhs float bowl, and one from the thermostat thru a clear plastic tank thingy to the rhs carby bowl?

Coolant lines on Carb?
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:06 AM   #96
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...anybody know what the coolant lines that go to carby are for? one from the lhs pipe from water pump goes to lhs float bowl, and one from the thermostat thru a clear plastic tank thingy to the rhs carby bowl?

[
What?
No coolant lines attach to the carbs.

The hose on the coolant recovery tank is a vent hose. It attaches to nothing.
There is a vent hose on the left side of the fuel tank and it attaches to nothing.
The hose in between the carbs is a vent hose. It attaches to nothing, it is run back over the airbox.
The other two hoses on the carb should be attached to the petcock.
A tiny vacuum line on a T goes to the KLEEN Valve
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:16 AM   #97
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Installing pods and removing the air box would make working on the carbs a lot easier.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:18 AM   #98
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What?
No coolant lines attach to the carbs.

The hose on the coolant recovery tank is a vent hose. It attaches to nothing.
There is a vent hose on the left side of the fuel tank and it attaches to nothing.
The hose in between the carbs is a vent hose. It attaches to nothing, it is run back over the airbox.
The other two hoses on the carb should be attached to the petcock.
A tiny vacuum line on a T goes to the KLEEN Valve
look at that black barb hanging out the side of the lhs carb bowl in the first pic.

Now look at 2nd pic, its connected to that line from the coolant downpipe, goes thru something on top of stator cover and to the carb.

Also in the 2nd pic it shows a white plastic bulb thing on top of the carbs,
its coolant, bulb thing comes from the line out of the head to the thermostat, and goes to the rhs bottom of fuel bowl.

I'll take a pic of bottom of fuel bowls in the morning.

Mebbe the Au bikes have a different setup.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:19 AM   #99
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Installing pods and removing the air box would make working on the carbs a lot easier.
Not allowed to in our 250 production rules.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:30 AM   #100
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Not allowed to in our 250 production rules.
Production rules? Racing? Do the battery box mod then.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:54 AM   #101
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MOTM - May '15
I didn't see any hose that's connected to the radiator either.

One hose on top of the carb (right in the middle of the two carbs) goes to the rear of the bike on top of the airbox. That goes to nothing.

Then I have two hoses that connects to the gas tank (petcock).

There is also another small hose that's attached a small T connector.

These were the only hoses I had to disconnect when I removed the carbs.

I see that white plastic thing in your 2nd pic. I don't remember seeing that!!
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Old April 1st, 2014, 10:56 AM   #102
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....Mebbe the Au bikes have a different setup.
Maybe. The U.S. Model doesn't have the extra bypass or whatever it is on the radiator coolant pipe. Nor is any hose attached to the bottom if the carbs. They are carb drains.

That little black barb you mention looks like a idle adjustment knob.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 06:20 PM   #103
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I didn't see any hose that's connected to the radiator either.

One hose on top of the carb (right in the middle of the two carbs) goes to the rear of the bike on top of the airbox. That goes to nothing.

Then I have two hoses that connects to the gas tank (petcock).

There is also another small hose that's attached a small T connector.

These were the only hoses I had to disconnect when I removed the carbs.

I see that white plastic thing in your 2nd pic. I don't remember seeing that!!
Thanks,

Id better start my own thread before I delve into the carbs.
as they are definitely water lines as my pics show,
and the battery box is a separate unit to the airbox that unbolts first (no it hasn't been cut or modded)
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Old April 1st, 2014, 07:10 PM   #104
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MOTM - May '15
http://youtu.be/goSsaAsxs9w

Does this sound and look normal to you? Bike started up just fine. No choke (as always). I let it idle for 5-10 mins. Then adjusted idle speed (via little hand twist knob).

The idle bounces up and down a little (from 1k - 1.4k). Is this normal? Do your bikes do the same?

Also, when I rev it, the rpms drop, however it hangs a little bit between 2k - 3k before dropping back down to idle speed. I'm guessing that's a sign of running too lean??? (that's what I've read in the DIY section). Is this a sign of the rpms hanging a bit before dropping?

Or is this normal with the ninjette?
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Old April 1st, 2014, 07:20 PM   #105
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My bike hangs pretty close to 1300 rpm idle once it gets warm. Something doesn't sound right but I think it's the audio on you camera. Does it run okay when you ride?
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Old April 1st, 2014, 07:27 PM   #106
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Does this sound and look normal to you? Bike started up just fine. No choke (as always). I let it idle for 5-10 mins. Then adjusted idle speed (via little hand twist knob).

The idle bounces up and down a little (from 1k - 1.4k). Is this normal? Do your bikes do the same?

Also, when I rev it, the rpms drop, however it hangs a little bit between 2k - 3k before dropping back down to idle speed. I'm guessing that's a sign of running too lean??? (that's what I've read in the DIY section). Is this a sign of the rpms hanging a bit before dropping?
Use the choke on cold days. it's what it's for.
When you set the idle the bike really needs to be at full operating temp. 5-10 minutes of idling is not going to do it especially in cold weather. You need to ride it.
Because the slides are vacuum (start moving about 3k) operated there will be a slight delay (hanging) of the idle speed. It's not necessarily and indicator of being lean. If you are worried about it being lean, use the choke, it really, really helps the warm up. It's not going to hurt. This way you don't have to let it idle for ten min. keep in mind the idle speed will change as the ambient temps change, so you will need to adjust it accordingly.
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Old April 1st, 2014, 09:55 PM   #107
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MOTM - May '15
Came back from a 10 mile ride. It was decently warm out there. 45 degrees. Bike runs fine. Pulls to redline in 1st and 2nd gears really strong. Since I didn't take hit the interstate (11pm), I wasn't able to ride it hard. I kept my revs around 7-8k for most of the ride and shifted around 10k (50mph speed limit).

After the 10 mile ride, I made a tiny adjustment to the idle speed. But it still does the same thing. The needle slowly moves up & down from 1k - 1.4k (as shown in the video in my previous post)

I also google mapped the road I took and confirmed that it was indeed 10 miles (debunking the theory that my odometer may have error).

I guess, I'll just have to wait to see how the bike acts when it's warmer out (when I take longer rides). Hopefully I'll get more than 26mpg!!!!!

Just for peace of mind, I'll change the oil again (only 100 miles since my last change!!!) but I'll keep the same filter.

I guess time will tell.....

I'll keep you guys updated once it gets warmer.

As always, I'd like to give a heartfelt thank you for everyone's help/suggestions. Big shout out to DaBlue for all the info he has provided.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 01:20 PM   #108
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Thanks,

Id better start my own thread before I delve into the carbs.
as they are definitely water lines as my pics show,
and the battery box is a separate unit to the airbox that unbolts first (no it hasn't been cut or modded)
Jetted my bike 2 weeks ago with stage 2 dynojet kit and the carbs had coolant lines like you posted before.

American's and Canadian's should purchase Aussie Carburettor off us

Ill swap for a fuel injection throttles
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Old April 4th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #109
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This thread has been helpful as in the middle of pulling carbs out to fir a factory pro jet kit on the race bike.



ClusterF*** of epic proportions just to remove them

but does anybody know what the coolant lines that go to carby are for? one from the lhs pipe from water pump goes to lhs float bowl, and one from the thermostat thru a clear plastic tank thingy to the rhs carby bowl?

In case no one answered this, the coolant line to the carburetors is used to prevent ice forming on the inside of them in cold weather. I would think you could probably get away with not using it on a race bike.

Edit: At least, the ninja 500 has this. I didn't know the 250 did; the one I had decidedly did not.
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Old April 4th, 2014, 12:17 PM   #110
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In case no one answered this, the coolant line to the carburetors is used to prevent ice forming on the inside of them in cold weather.
Good info to know.

I thought that is what it may be, but wasn't sure. Never heard of it on a Ninja 250. I know a guy who has carb heaters on his 250.

There's a video for Kawasaki electric carb heaters on a Ninja 250.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 10:21 PM   #111
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MOTM - May '15
Just an update for everyone....36.5mpg

I decided to change my oil again (even though it has only been 200 miles since I last changed it) along with changing the air filter.

I went out for a quick 5 mile ride around 10pm to warm up the liquids before the oil change. On my way back, I stopped by the gas station and filled up the tank (I'm still worried about condensation building up in the tank in this cold weather).

Rode 69 miles since the previous fill up. Tonight's fill up required 1.89 gallons. So 36.5mpg this time. I guess this is A LOT better than my sub 30mpg in the past. The temp this evening was around 45 degrees when I rode.

Notes:
- I decided not to change the oil filter.
- The oil that drained out was surprisingly pitch black considering it was only in the motor for 200 miles.
- The oil did NOT smell that strong of gasoline. There is a slight slight slight hint of gasoline scent. But wasn't strong at all. It smelled more like oil than gas.
- When I put my nose next to the filler hole (this is with no oil in the bike), it smelled like gasoline!!! So, I guess maybe the smell is coming from the motor....not the oil in the crankcase???
- I still have the old oil from the previous oil change and that oil was a lot stronger in gasoline smell
- I did not oil the new air filter. I came from the factory oiled already.

After the oil and air filter change, funny thing happened. I decided to start the bike, but put it on choke. As I choked the bike, the rpms dropped below 1,000 and it stalled out. Weird!

I took the bike out for a 15 mile ride after the oil and air filter change (this was around midnight). Bike rides perfectly fine.

I'm hoping as the temps start increasing, my MPG starts to get better.

We'll see =)
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Old April 9th, 2014, 05:16 AM   #112
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Did you check the petcock I can't remember? Does your back wheel spin easily on the center stand with the bike in neutral? How about the front?
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Old April 9th, 2014, 05:40 AM   #113
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....- I did not oil the new air filter. I came from the factory oiled already.

What filter did you get?

Quote:
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.....After the oil and air filter change, funny thing happened. I decided to start the bike, but put it on choke. As I choked the bike, the rpms dropped below 1,000 and it stalled out. Weird!
Not weird. The bike was probably warm enough that it didn't need full choke or any choke at all. With your mixture adjustments, you'll be fine with maybe half choke. Temps will kind of dictate. Also another thing to consider is gas blends. Some states have a winter and summer blend gas. Not sure about NJ or when they change over (EPA mandates retailers stop selling winter blend gas no later than June 1st; Terminal facilities must meet the mandate to have summer blend gas no later than May 1st). It is a fact that mpg sucks balls with winter blend gas because you use more of it.

Here's some info on The truth about winter gas.

Good to hear it's running great. As the temps change so will your mpg.
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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:35 PM   #114
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MOTM - May '15
I went with the oem air filter. Now only if there's an easy way to test if I'm running too rich or too lean...

I know for a fact that all the gas stations I go to have 10% ethanol in the gas. I did a search for no ethanol gas and there aren't any around in NJ!
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Old April 9th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by cadd View Post
I went with the oem air filter. Now only if there's an easy way to test if I'm running too rich or too lean...
I remember way back in the day when I was stationed in Jersey, when the gas station could do inspections they had a tail pipe sniffer to test emissions on cars. Do they still have that nowadays? You might be able to get somebody (mom & pop full service station) to check your AFR (if they are capable) for a beer or two. You could always look for a bike shop that has a dyno if your really that interested. This dyno sheet will give you an idea of what a stock Ninja 250 AFR looks like.

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Originally Posted by cadd View Post
....I know for a fact that all the gas stations I go to have 10% ethanol in the gas. I did a search for no ethanol gas and there aren't any around in NJ!
NJ is one of those states that have to follow the EPA Reformulated Gasoline Program. No real gas for you.
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Old April 13th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #116
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Update: Weather in the 50s now. Yesterday's fill up was as follows:
- Trip meter shows 75 miles.
- Needed 2.1 gallons to fill up.

35.7mpg.

I don't know....it still a bit low.


Some new observations:

1 - My buddy was driving while I was riding. At one point I pulled next to him at a long red light. After I accelerated in front of him when the light turned green, he tells me that he smells a lot of gas.

2 - Sometimes I have a difficult time starting the bike. It was 70 degrees today. I rode 15 miles to a buddy's house to drop of something. I had the bike turned off in front of his house for about 3-5 minutes. When I started it again, it had a difficult time starting. When it finally started, the idle was around 500rpm and struggling. The only way to prevent it from stalling was to blip the throttle a bit. Then it stablized at 1,300rpm.

What do these two scenarios tell you guys about the bike?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:04 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by cadd View Post
....What do these two scenarios tell you guys about the bike?
Your mpg is improving. The gas you're using may not be good for your bike (not burning well) and it is not uncommon to need a little choke even after the bike has been run a then cools off a few minutes. Every bike is different.

IMHO I believe you can improve your spark efficiency and AFR by switching to Iridium Plugs and a better breathing filter, if you believe your stock setup is too rich.

I recall you saying most of your trips were about 5 miles one way. After the 5 mile trip what do you do with the bike? Does it sit outside in the sun for hrs? or is it inside? Do you use the same gas station/same brand every fill up?

One thing I found out is that there are a couple of counties in NJ that don't have RFG (reformulated gas) or at least they don't fall under the EPA mandate. Ever bought gas in Warren County? Could be something to do, experiment with different brand gas.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:57 AM   #118
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I try to take longer trips. Last night I rode 30 miles. I fill up at random gas stations (all "premium brands" like ExxonMobil, BP, Shell, etc).

After my trips, the bike goes right into the garage. It's never left outdoors for more than 2-3hrs at a time.

I never venture out to Warren County. I mostly stay and fill up in Morris County.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:19 PM   #119
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Here is my old 250 mpg for reference lower mpg are sustained highway riding of 2 hours
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Old April 15th, 2014, 03:36 PM   #120
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Thx for the mpg graph Sonic. What is your normal cruising rpm on 45-50mph roads? Are you in 6th gear?

I just got 41mpg last night. But I modified my riding. I've been taking longer (20 mile) rides and I shift around 6-7k rpm. I started cruising at 5k rpm. In the past, I'd cruise around 7k rpm.
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