Someone stealing my gasoline from my bike! Video included

[Jammerkiller]

Originally Posted by cadd

Dablue1 mentioned that the smell should be ok since I don't smell any gasoline in the airbox by the filter? Conflicting info here

Sorry about that. I was going on your statement that the hose from the airbox/crankcase smelled STRONGLY of gas, again. You could also remove the oil filler cap and sniff in there to see if it reeks of gas. (it shouldn't..) That would be the indicator as to why your oil level is increasing. And the only possible way for gas to get into the crankcase is through the carbs, either into the cylinders and past the piston rings, or into the airbox and through the breather hose. Just saying....

It would really help if anyone could go to where you and the bike are, and diagnose the damn thing!

Tell use how the oil sample comes out.......

[cadd]

Here are a few videos of what I did a few minutes ago.

1 - shows the choke lever free play along with choke cable free play. I also showed throttle cable slack as well. Let me know if you guys see anything (particularly vacuum hoses) not properly installed.
http://youtu.be/bv24Qd-sJ-w

2 - a clearer view of the choke mechanism of the carb
http://youtu.be/G03HKFvWeM8

3 - airbox breather hose and drain plug removed
http://youtu.be/Ktyo_fyHKF0

4 - Spraying carb cleaner into the airbox via breather hole and drain plug hole
http://youtu.be/e-JJmu8a8T4

Let me know if anything doesn't look right to you guys.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

Here are a few videos of what I did a few minutes ago.

Let me know if anything doesn't look right to you guys.

Everything looks fine, especially the choke. You can see how the spring is snapping it closed.

I'd button it up and enjoy the ride. Summer is on the way. Whenever possible keep your rpms low, that's how the hypermilers get good mpg.

[cuong-nutz]

Ditto

[cadd]

I guess you guys are right. If the oil analysis comes back normal, I guess I'll have to live with mpg in the high 30s low 40s range.

If that's the case, I know it'll bother me too much. I just can't do it....knowing something is "off". I guess as a last resort, I'll buy a used carburetor and swap mine out to see if it fixes anything. If it does fix it, great! If not, I'll resell the carb and I'll trade in the bike for another 250 or 300.

Let me ask you guys something. Be honest....what mpg do you guys get? And how are you guys riding? Redline? Shift below 10k?

I really hate shifting below 6k. I really really feel more comfortable (and safer) shifting between 7-9k rpm.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

....Let me ask you guys something. Be honest....what mpg do you guys get? And how are you guys riding? Redline? Shift below 10k?

I really hate shifting below 6k. I really really feel more comfortable (and safer) shifting between 7-9k rpm.

Of course you know there are more than a few things (altitude, temp, elevation, weight, Tire pressure, fuel type, tuning, weather) that can affect mpg. Riding style is one of them. I get crappy gas mileage when it's cold (below 50 degrees), it's also less than stellar when the rpms are above 7k riding in city traffic. At 7k the bike starts to go pretty rich and that's where your gas starts to get burned up, even though it's for a brief moment. Over time it can add up.

IMO the stock Ninja 250 is under geared. It works hard to go nowhere especially in the lower gears. Reducing the rpm speed is one of the main reasons why so many people put on a 15 tooth sprocket. It makes 1st & 2nd gear more useful. You can reduce your rpm speed and gain an avg. of 3 mph on the top end.

Very seldom do I hit 7k rpm in the city, then again I don't have to because I'm geared differently than a stock bike. I stay @7k and up on the hwy the majority of the time where my speed is 70 mph+.

Everybody's bike and mpg will be different and you'll never really know exactly every detail as to why they get the mpg they do. To be honest, very few get the advertised 61 mpg that Kawasaki so proudly promotes. I avg. in the 50 mpg range, which is fine by me.

I think you see better than 50 mpg as the temps get warmer and you ride a little further. I think the bike performs best when the temps are in the 70's, so hang with it a little bit. You got your bike in the winter and have yet to see how it performs in the summer. Before long you'll be wanting to mod it some more.

Also keep in mind you have a slip on exhaust which does nothing to help your mpg either. Your bike may have shed a few pounds added some noise but that's it. Your wrist may be more of a factor in your mpg woes.

[Yakaru]

All the situationals aside, here's a collection of "real life" 250 MPG data:
http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/kawasaki/ninja%20250r

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by cadd

I guess you guys are right. If the oil analysis comes back normal, I guess I'll have to live with mpg in the high 30s low 40s range.

If that's the case, I know it'll bother me too much. I just can't do it....knowing something is "off". I guess as a last resort, I'll buy a used carburetor and swap mine out to see if it fixes anything. If it does fix it, great! If not, I'll resell the carb and I'll trade in the bike for another 250 or 300.

Let me ask you guys something. Be honest....what mpg do you guys get? And how are you guys riding? Redline? Shift below 10k?

I really hate shifting below 6k. I really really feel more comfortable (and safer) shifting between 7-9k rpm.

First off my bike has a full Leo Vince pipe, stage two Dynojet kit, and K&N airfillter inside the OEM airbox. My jetting is perfect as my bike never needs to choked, runs crisp and clean at an rpm and the spark plugs look perfect.

I always cruise around 70-80mph on the ninja and don't get much city riding. I shift at 6k normally but due to my tall gearing 70-80 mob is 7k-8k rmps. Now every day on my commute I have to go wide open throttle for at least 3 mins in ether 5th or 6th gear to make it up the hills into the head wind. So with this style of commute I average 50-53 mpg. If I ride like a racer in the canyons at redline I get around 48mpg.

My worst MPG on the road was my last MTBing trip several weeks ago. If you did know I have a rack to carry my Mtb on the rear of the ninja and it can create quite a bit of drag at 70 mph. My 1000 mile trip was hindered with 50 mph winds so I was stuck in 4th gear WOT at 10-11k rmps just trying to do the 65mph speed limit. Even being wide open all that time dragging a sail behind the bike the worst mpg I got was 43mpg.

My last track day at Laguna Seca(videos in video forum) I used 5.5 gals and rode 203 miles over two days. That 37 mpg with the bike never dropping below 11k RPMs other then entering and exiting the pits.

Hope this gives you an idea of range. I don't know how people get in the 60 mpg, the best I was able to squeeze out was 58 and that was with some hypermilling use. I think my 70 mph commute and performance mods are just to much to get into the 60mpg range. I suspect most people getting over 60 have stock bikes and rarely get to go over 60 mph.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

IMO the stock Ninja 250 is under geared. It works hard to go nowhere especially in the lower gears. Reducing the rpm speed is one of the main reasons why so many people put on a 15 tooth sprocket. It makes 1st & 2nd gear more useful. You can reduce your rpm speed and gain an avg. of 3 mph on the top end.

Very seldom do I hit 7k rpm in the city, then again I don't have to because I'm geared differently than a stock bike. I stay @7k and up on the hwy the majority of the time where my speed is 70 mph+.

Gearing is very low. I need to check to see if I have the oem sized front and rear sprockets. It'll be hilarious if the previous owner geared it even lower.

If I recall correctly, 70mph = approx 8k rpm for me.

Originally Posted by Yakaru

All the situationals aside, here's a collection of "real life" 250 MPG data:
http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/kawasaki/ninja%20250r

Thx for the link!! I just started using this app called "aCar" by Fuelly. I wonder if I can link my info to the Fuelly database.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

You got your bike in the winter and have yet to see how it performs in the summer.

I am actually a bit nervous. When it was in the high 60s a few days ago, the bike acted funny. I took a 40 mile ride. 45 - 55mph roads.

When I stopped at a red light, bike stalled out after waiting a minute for the light to turn green. As a matter of fact, it stalled out seconds before the light turned green. Started right up again. This happened twice now. Both warm days. Absolutely no warning. Idles perfectly fine, then stalls out without warning!

Another funny thing was the idle not returning to normal. It hangs at 3k rpm one time. Of course it had to be a time when I stopped next to a police cruiser! I had to hold the brakes and get the clutch in the friction zone for a full minute to get it down to 1500rpm.

I had to adjust the idle speed to eventually get it back down.

So yeah.....the idle I understand. Maybe it's the temps. I almost never ride during the day with the warm sun hitting the bike. So my idle has always been set during 11pm at night after my rides in 45 degree weather.

But the sudden stalling makes me a tad nervous.

[alex.s]

one of a few things maybe...

1) idle air screw out too far. should be right around 2 turns out from all the way in.

2) your petcock is sticky and at low rpm it isn't enough vacuum to open the petcock adequately starving the carbs making them lean or maybe you have a slight vacuum leak

3) your idle jet is still partially clogged and you have gotten around the issue by turning the idle up but once its nice and warm your idle goes too high

[Jammerkiller]

My modded 2004 (pre-gen) Cafe Racer with Factory Pro jet kit, K&N big air filter, trumpet exhaust and much lighter than stock weight.... gets 55MPG with me shifting at higher RPMs (7-11?) and cruising at any RPM above 5k for the powerband. I would think a stock new-gen should be getting 60mpg or more.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

one of a few things maybe...

1) idle air screw out too far. should be right around 2 turns out from all the way in.

2) your petcock is sticky and at low rpm it isn't enough vacuum to open the petcock adequately starving the carbs making them lean or maybe you have a slight vacuum leak

3) your idle jet is still partially clogged and you have gotten around the issue by turning the idle up but once its nice and warm your idle goes too high

1 - I set mine to 2.5 turns out for both carbs. Maybe I'll tighten it to 2.0 turns out instead? This fuel/air mixture adjustment is only for idle? Or does it affect the fuel/air ratio throughout the rev ranges?

2 - if anything, I think I may be running too rich. Took original plugs out and both were pitch black. Is there anyway to test for vacuum leak?

3 - idle jet extremely clean. I see light through the tiny holes when I took them out to clean.

[alex.s]

2- you can be rich and lean in different areas of the range

3- does that mean you did not poke anything through because you could see through? if that is the case take them back out and poke them out.

[cadd]

Should I try to set them to 2 turns out (instead of 2.5 currently?)

I submerged all 4 Jets in carb cleaner for over 30 mins. I didn't poke any copper wires through since they looked really clean.

[cadd]

I left it at 2.5 turns. Throttle hangs for some reason.

http://youtu.be/kSaoq_V0iis

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

.... I think I may be running too rich. Took original plugs out and both were pitch black.

Dark plugs are not always a bad thing. Different conditions can be the cause.

Have a look at this spark plug chart. You may find that the color of your plug is good.

How to Read Your Spark Plug


FAQ Reading Spark Plugs

Originally Posted by cadd

I left it at 2.5 turns. Throttle hangs for some reason.

f it hangs at all, it's too lean. If it drops below idle when returning, it's too rich.

[cadd]

32.4mpg. 104 miles ridden required 3.2 gals to fill up.

I gave up on it. I'll just ride it this season (since it rides perfectly fine) and sell it the beginning of next season when there are more used 300s on the market.

I just hope it doesn't stall out on me too much while I sit at red lights.

Thank you all for contributing to this thread. Much appreciated!

[cadd]

Weather in the 60s - 70s now.

39mpg.

That's with 80 miles of interstate riding at 70-75mph (according to the speedometer). The rest of the miles are on 2 lane highways with traffic lights (40 - 50mph speed limit).

I just have to keep my eyes open for gas stations after the 150 mile mark. You guys are lucky to hit close to 200 miles before a fill up!

My latest fill up was 157 miles. Required exactly 4 gal of gas.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by cadd

Weather in the 60s - 70s now.

39mpg.

That's with 80 miles of interstate riding at 70-75mph (according to the speedometer). The rest of the miles are on 2 lane highways with traffic lights (40 - 50mph speed limit).

I just have to keep my eyes open for gas stations after the 150 mile mark. You guys are lucky to hit close to 200 miles before a fill up!

My latest fill up was 157 miles. Required exactly 4 gal of gas.

Hey take your petcock out and take a picture of it. I have a hunch.

[cadd]

But it's not leaking though

I'll do it after tomorrow. Mid 70s tmr. I'm going to try to put on some miles. And besides, I just filled up. I don't have enough containers to drain 4 gals =)

What's your hunch? Let's hear it!

[cadd]

Here's a moral question for you guys. If I were to sell the bike (after purchasing another 250/300), should I disclose that I'm getting under 40mpg on average?

Heck, the previous owner didn't disclose that info to me!!! But I don't want to "screw someone over". I want to do the right thing, but get the most money I can. Aside from the low MPG, the bike runs perfectly fine from idle to redline in each gear as far as I can tell.

[cadd]

Oil analysis kit just came in the mail. I'm going to do another oil change and send it in. It still smells like gas. I'll let you know once I get the results back.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

Weather in the 60s - 70s now.

39mpg.

That's with 80 miles of interstate riding at 70-75mph (according to the speedometer). The rest of the miles are on 2 lane highways with traffic lights (40 - 50mph speed limit).

I just have to keep my eyes open for gas stations after the 150 mile mark. You guys are lucky to hit close to 200 miles before a fill up!

My latest fill up was 157 miles. Required exactly 4 gal of gas.

This is not bad considering you're riding in the rev range where the bike runs pretty rich.

I fully understand your wanting to stay mostly stock, but you may want to consider using iridium plugs. If nothing else it will give a chance to see a comparison between two different plugs and any difference in combustion, gas mileage and power. Even a little more air to even out the richness may help. Keep in mind that your slip on may contribute to your mpg as it is not as restrictive as the stock exhaust.

It won't hurt anything.

[cadd]

Oil change done. I'll send in the oil this week. If the results come back normal, I guess it's time to switch back to OEM exhaust to see if it'll make a difference .

Previous owner gave me the oem exhaust with the bike.

And I'll change the plugs to iridium as well.

If none of that works, I'll just give up and ride it the way it is this summer and sell it next spring.

[cadd]

Here's an odd development. Or maybe it has always been like this, but I just haven't noticed....

Note: I'm running OEM gearing.

I've noticed in:
3rd gear @ 6,000rpm, I'm at 30mph (indicated on speedometer)
4th @ 6,000rpm, I'm at 40mph (indicated on speedometer)

Can anyone confirm? If you guys go for a ride, please have a look down at your speedometer for me?

However, after riding for an hour, I noticed that:
3rd @ 6,000rpm becomes 26-27mph
4th @ 6,000rpm becomes 35-37mph

Just noticed this yesterday.

Could it be that my clutch is slipping?!

Is there anyway I can make the friction zone a little closer to the handlebars? Right now, it's all the way out. I mean....I can pull on the clutch lever 1" and I'm fully disengaged already. I do have a few mm of freeplay on the lever. But just for the peace of mind, I would like to move the friction zone 1/4" closer to the handlebars.

[cuong-nutz]

I have the same issue. I wonder if the ethanol is damaging the rubber float valve needles and creating an overly rich condition.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

.....Is there anyway I can make the friction zone a little closer to the handlebars?

Adjustable levers do just that.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Adjustable levers do just that.

Did you use a ex500 perch for the clutch?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

Here's an odd development. Or maybe it has always been like this, but I just haven't noticed....

Note: I'm running OEM gearing.

I've noticed in:
3rd gear @ 6,000rpm, I'm at 30mph (indicated on speedometer)
4th @ 6,000rpm, I'm at 40mph (indicated on speedometer)

Can anyone confirm? If you guys go for a ride, please have a look down at your speedometer for me?

However, after riding for an hour, I noticed that:
3rd @ 6,000rpm becomes 26-27mph
4th @ 6,000rpm becomes 35-37mph

Just noticed this yesterday.

Could it be that my clutch is slipping?!

Looks like you're within the margin of error for the speedo. Since the speedo and tach are independent of each other, there may be some small differences. I see it on mine even with 15/41 sprockets and a taller front wheel. I wouldn't worry about it too much until the tach starts to act weird and the tach rpms increase but the engine speed does not. Then you probably have IC Ignitor problems.

https://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Why_is...eally_going%3F

http://www.gearingcommander.com/

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by agentbad

Did you use a ex500 perch for the clutch?

For the New Gens it is a direct install of the adjustable levers. No new (EX500) perch needed.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

For the New Gens it is a direct install of the adjustable levers. No new (EX500) perch needed.

Lucky seems like a few things on the newgen are easier to mod like the front suspension.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by agentbad

Lucky seems like a few things on the newgen are easier to mod like the front suspension.

The 08-12 model by far has more aftermarket mods than the previous 20 years of the bike.

[cadd]

Oil analysis came back. When I sent in my oil, I informed them of my low MPG issue and asked that they see if they catch anything in the oil that may be causing the low MPG. Here's their comment:

"We test for fuel using the flashpoint. As long as your reading is above the "should be" value, there's no detectable gas in the oil. Your flashpoint was fine, so there isn't any measurable fuel here. The additives don't look diluted either, which is a symptom of fuel contamination. We're not seeing any possible mechanical issue that might explain the poor gas mileage. Metals look okay compared to universal averages, which show typical levels of wear for this type of engine after ~2,900 miles of oil use. The viscosity isn't an issue. Run 700 miles again & resample."

[cadd]

My buddy was following me today. His windows were down. While we were going going 10mph into a parking lot he said my bike smells really bad while he was behind me.

I asked him "what do you mean by smells bad"? He said it smells really strong of gasoline.

He doesn't ride. So, I don't know what "really bad" is. Should the car following behind you smell any gasoline smell at all at parking lot speeds?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

My buddy was following me today. His windows were down. While we were going going 10mph into a parking lot he said my bike smells really bad while he was behind me.

I asked him "what do you mean by smells bad"? He said it smells really strong of gasoline.

He doesn't ride. So, I don't know what "really bad" is. Should the car following behind you smell any gasoline smell at all at parking lot speeds?

Sometimes exhaust can be odoriferous (big word there). Especially if you run a tad rich, but it's not a real problem. As the AFR leans out a bit it should go away. Gas formula, an incomplete combustion, improperly tuned carbs can all contribute to exhaust smell. Remember you basically have a straight exhaust with your slip on, no resonator, baffle or expansion chamber to change the flow of exhaust coming out of the engine. just an empty tin can between you and the engine.

Really bad is, if you can smell it. Next time put some Cherry Bomb or Groovy Grape in the tank, then have him take a whiff. Watch the reactions of everyone else too.


Try some Iridium Spark Plugs and see you if get a better spark and more complete combustion. A more efficient spark can burn gas better and with help mpg.

[agentbad]

Have you considered maybe just buying a used carb off ebay and giving that a try?

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by cadd

Oil analysis came back. When I sent in my oil, I informed them of my low MPG issue and asked that they see if they catch anything in the oil that may be causing the low MPG. Here's their comment:

"We test for fuel using the flashpoint. As long as your reading is above the "should be" value, there's no detectable gas in the oil. Your flashpoint was fine, so there isn't any measurable fuel here. The additives don't look diluted either, which is a symptom of fuel contamination. We're not seeing any possible mechanical issue that might explain the poor gas mileage. Metals look okay compared to universal averages, which show typical levels of wear for this type of engine after ~2,900 miles of oil use. The viscosity isn't an issue. Run 700 miles again & resample."

Interesting

How much did this cost you?

[cadd]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Remember you basically have a straight exhaust with your slip on, no resonator, baffle or expansion chamber to change the flow of exhaust coming out of the engine. just an empty tin can between you and the engine.

Are all Two Brothers slip ons the same? Or did the previous owner just remove the baffle and everything else? I do get a ton of popping every time I close the throttle abruptly

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Try some Iridium Spark Plugs and see you if get a better spark and more complete combustion. A more efficient spark can burn gas better and with help mpg.

You keep pushing for Iridium plugs. I'll give that a shot next.

Originally Posted by agentbad

Have you considered maybe just buying a used carb off ebay and giving that a try?

Yes. I did. However, I'm also debating about taking the carbs out myself and letting a professional look at them. It's much cheaper that way (compared to bringing the bike to them intacted).

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Interesting

How much did this cost you?

$25 is the fee. Shipping was around 4 bucks including tracking.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by cadd

Are all Two Brothers slip ons the same? Or did the previous owner just remove the baffle and everything else? I do get a ton of popping every time I close the throttle abruptly

The muffler themselves are the same. They can be repacked if need be. They also have an optional P1X insert (sort of a baffle) that is suppose to reduce the noise by 7-8 db.

Popping is just the nature of the slip on exhaust. It's thin light and hollow compared to a stock muffler. Part of it (popping) is attributed to the KLEEN system.

I thought you mentioned something about you had the OEM exhaust that you were going to experiment with.