CVMA March 30-31 Round 6!!! - Page 10

Nemesis · April 3rd, 2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

or just crash like me.

I learned you can't keep pushing the front and ignoring the warning signs on the last lap! :P

WERD.

You have to make adjustments and you sure as hell can't go in PINNED into a turn. I thought you guys would have learned this from Major Lazear, Shawn Pen, and Xtian (Indetrucks) riding the 250. LOL

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

WERD.

You have to make adjustments and you sure as hell can't go in PINNED into a turn. I thought you guys would have learned this from Major Lazear, Shawn Pen, and Xtian (Indetrucks) riding the 250. LOL

I have now crashed TWICE on teh 250, both times was on corner entry PINNED!
I try to not lift because you say don't lift.... this is the price i pay. LOL!
I'm still learning... chassis is WAY different than my 1000 THAT'S fer sure!

tooblekain · April 3rd, 2013, 10:30 AM

At my pace I am feeling the front sliding and pushing...and I know the difference because I have lost the front end and successfully and unsuccessfully (a la crashed) recovered front slides on my D675.

The good thing about riding the D675 was that recovering front end slides is a lot harder to recover on the Ninja 250 than it is the D675....so I may need to push it further and recover it right before it's breaking point or adjust settings on my bike.

My rear set up seems good (no lost traction even on power out...and when it happens its easily manageable)...my front I may need to fine tune. I know I have done adjustments here and there with my emulators....I know I had the stiffer yellow springs on my emulator and they felt too stiff, I loosened and it got better but still a tad stiff. I switched to the softer blue springs and it was perfect, but then as my pace got faster I encountered the same problems. I tightened them up and they got a little better.

I may swap back to the yellow springs since my pace has picked up. The other possibility is I may even try an even heavier fork oil weight since I can't control rebound settings on my fork like I could my D675. I'm currently at 15W and its good. I may jump to 20W and see how that feels.

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 10:30 AM

EH PIC

Link to original page on YouTube.

Nemesis · April 3rd, 2013, 10:33 AM

Okay, let's think outside of the box for the moment...what other adjustments one can do to avoid front end slides?

alex.s · April 3rd, 2013, 10:40 AM

oh oh! pick me pick me! less weight on the front end!

tooblekain · April 3rd, 2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Okay, let's think outside of the box for the moment...what other adjustments one can do to avoid front end slides?

It mostly happens at extreme lean angles...a characteristic of the tire's smaller width IMO.

Line adjustments to really hit the apex and pick it up and gas earlier and utilize the whole width of the track help a bit so-as-to not needing to lean the bike so much, but when I ran the 2:11 pace even when I felt I had the proper line and the "just right" lean angle it would still happen. The disadvantage of this is when trying to defend your position or make a pass on someone I either get through or get enough of significant break in traction on the front where I actually had to slow down.

The other thing I noticed (and Id like to get a consenus) is when I had more than 1/2 a tank of gas the front would stick better. When I was less than half a tank the front end was lighter and it would skip around. I would adjust and put my body more towards the front and it helped a tad.

The other alternative is try a different set of tires that are wider to see if that may fix front end slides at greater lean angles.

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Okay, let's think outside of the box for the moment...what other adjustments one can do to avoid front end slides?

Pick up the bike sooner (like i NORMALLY DO)

BAM!

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblekain

The other thing I noticed (and Id like to get a consenus) is when I had more than 1/2 a tank of gas the front would stick better. When I was less than half a tank the front end was lighter and it would skip around. I would adjust and put my body more towards the front and it helped a tad..

AGREED!
I run faster on a full tank. WIERD!!!

Nemesis · April 3rd, 2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

EH PIC

Link to original page on YouTube.

Wow! That race was epic! Sum awesome passing guys!

Oh, now I see why you crashed D...and it wasn't cuz your tires were worn down (or not)...you were off line.

alex.s · April 3rd, 2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblekain

It mostly happens at extreme lean angles...a characteristic of the tire's smaller width IMO.

Line adjustments to really hit the apex and pick it up and gas earlier and utilize the whole width of the track help a bit so-as-to not needing to lean the bike so much, but when I ran the 2:11 pace even when I felt I had the proper line and the "just right" lean angle it would still happen. The disadvantage of this is when trying to defend your position or make a pass on someone I either get through or get enough of significant break in traction on the front where I actually had to slow down.

The other thing I noticed (and Id like to get a consenus) is when I had more than 1/2 a tank of gas the front would stick better. When I was less than half a tank the front end was lighter and it would skip around. I would adjust and put my body more towards the front and it helped a tad.

The other alternative is try a different set of tires that are wider to see if that may fix front end slides at greater lean angles.

the thing i noticed most of all when doing 211 was how much less i was actually doing... instead of braking to turn, gassing out, setting up again, gassing out... i found myself just diving in and gassing the piss out of it the whole way through... the higher speed going through forced me to take a swoopy line that would smoothly connect the closer turns instead of treating things like 4/5 or 14/15 as two distinct turns. i found when i was going that pace that there wasn't any room or time to be changing lines or screwing around with anything that isn't 'go faster'

dino74 · April 3rd, 2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

I have now crashed TWICE on teh 250, both times was on corner entry PINNED!

How much use did that front tire have? Trying to get a sense of how long a BS front slick last.

tooblekain · April 3rd, 2013, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino74

How much use did that front tire have? Trying to get a sense of how long a BS front slick last.

With my front, it was brand new for March before the SoCal Trackdays weekend. As usual, I put a lot of laps in. The second use was at CVR again with Southbay Motorsports...rode A & B groups. Then the CVMA weekend.

Odd that it wears out faster than the rear, but I think its because the front slicks hardest compound is a soft. If Bridgestone made a medium compound for the 125 slick I think it would help a lot.

Since i have spare wheels, I may give the Dunlop Unbeatens 02 a try since they are the DOT race tire made specifically for Ninja 250 and CBR 250 racing in Japan.

dino74 · April 3rd, 2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblekain

Since i have spare wheels, I may give the Dunlop Unbeatens 02 a try since they are the DOT race tire made specifically for Ninja 250 and CBR 250 racing in Japan.

That's weird because the ninja 250 has a 3.5" rear rim

From www.dunlopracing.com/fitment.pdf

The 150 Dunlop Unbeatens 02 rim range is 4 to 4.5 with 4 being the recommended size

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino74

How much use did that front tire have? Trying to get a sense of how long a BS front slick last.

I had 3 weekends... but it's still good

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Wow! That race was epic! Sum awesome passing guys!

Oh, now I see why you crashed D...and it wasn't cuz your tires were worn down (or not)...you were off line.

TRU!
i was too worried about protecting a pass that i chose a different line. I totally spaced out that last lap and paid the price!

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 11:36 AM

Nemesis · April 3rd, 2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblekain

It mostly happens at extreme lean angles...a characteristic of the tire's smaller width IMO.

Line adjustments to really hit the apex and pick it up and gas earlier and utilize the whole width of the track help a bit so-as-to not needing to lean the bike so much, but when I ran the 2:11 pace even when I felt I had the proper line and the "just right" lean angle it would still happen. The disadvantage of this is when trying to defend your position or make a pass on someone I either get through or get enough of significant break in traction on the front where I actually had to slow down.

The other thing I noticed (and Id like to get a consenus) is when I had more than 1/2 a tank of gas the front would stick better. When I was less than half a tank the front end was lighter and it would skip around. I would adjust and put my body more towards the front and it helped a tad.

The other alternative is try a different set of tires that are wider to see if that may fix front end slides at greater lean angles.

Given your lean angle, as you roll on the throttle (depending on how much/how fast), the longer you're on the edge of the tires, the more likely you'll experience front/rear end slides.

So what adjustments would you make in your riding to prevent this from happening?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

Pick up the bike sooner (like i NORMALLY DO)

BAM!

Bwahahaha.

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So what adjustments would you make in your riding to prevent this from happening?
Bwahahaha.

I'd do what redman say's

Link to original page on YouTube.

pick it up pick it up!

Alex · April 3rd, 2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

sierrahotel · April 3rd, 2013, 12:26 PM

Nem my front end slide/chatter almost always happens somewhere just before apex, so generally I'm at maintenance throttle. I struggle with carrying enough speed into the apex. I feel very comfortable at full throttle, once I'm though that turn in phase- but mostly cause I'm slow enough that the bike doesn't have the power to get me into trouble for the rest of the turn.

alex.s · April 3rd, 2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierrahotel

Nem my front end slide/chatter almost always happens somewhere just before apex, so generally I'm at maintenance throttle. I struggle with carrying enough speed into the apex. I feel very comfortable at full throttle, once I'm though that turn in phase- but mostly cause I'm slow enough that the bike doesn't have the power to get me into trouble for the rest of the turn.

question- what is stopping you from getting on the gas sooner? as in, before the apex? maybe a too slow of a turn-in is forcing you to wait on the gas until the front settles from the turn in?? don't think i've really seen you ride so i have no idea if thats the case or not. just asking

Nemesis · April 3rd, 2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierrahotel

Nem my front end slide/chatter almost always happens somewhere just before apex, so generally I'm at maintenance throttle. I struggle with carrying enough speed into the apex. I feel very comfortable at full throttle, once I'm though that turn in phase- but mostly cause I'm slow enough that the bike doesn't have the power to get me into trouble for the rest of the turn.

Odd because your bike is almost an exact replica of mine (90% or so). PM me your specs/what you've done to your bike and such. Let me take it out for a lap or two.

Dmented · April 3rd, 2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierrahotel

Nem my front end slide/chatter almost always happens somewhere just before apex, so generally I'm at maintenance throttle. I struggle with carrying enough speed into the apex. I feel very comfortable at full throttle, once I'm though that turn in phase- but mostly cause I'm slow enough that the bike doesn't have the power to get me into trouble for the rest of the turn.

chatter?

you ain't goin hard enough in tha paint!

Trailerboy531 · April 3rd, 2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

sierrahotel · April 3rd, 2013, 03:45 PM

Nem I do realize that I need to get you and/or Josh on my bike to feel it. Thanks to Tiff I got a spot in the practice next month.

But yeah, I have same forks as you but with different preload and ride height, plus whatever different knob twisting on the rear shock.

Alex I do get on the gas sooner when able, but the increasing radius turns are what kill me.

alex.s · April 3rd, 2013, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

i was like

but then i was like

alex.s · April 3rd, 2013, 09:17 PM

whats darren cooking next round

Dmented · April 4th, 2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

whats darren cooking next round

Am I cooking or is it potluck?

Dmented · April 4th, 2013, 11:09 AM

Balsamic and Beer-Braised Short Ribs?
Beer-Marinated Tri-Tip??
Chicken with Honey Dijon-Beer Sauce???

Notice a theme?!

Rexbo · April 4th, 2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmented

Balsamic and Beer-Braised Short Ribs?
Beer-Marinated Tri-Tip??
Chicken with Honey Dijon-Beer Sauce???

Notice a theme?!

So.... beer for dinner?

Dmented · April 4th, 2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexbo

So.... beer for dinner?

UMMMMMMMM....
seems legit!

Zombiphone · April 4th, 2013, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexbo

So.... beer for dinner?

Opposed to what we normally have for dinner at the track?

alex.s · April 4th, 2013, 01:25 PM

Dmented · April 4th, 2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

HA!
that was errbody at the bbq...

JBinSD · April 4th, 2013, 05:44 PM

I have no idea how D does the whole food thing every weekend, I hate packing and prepping and crap, and usually bring a bottle of hard alcohol and some trail mix. For 3-4 days, it gets really old.

My buddy is a WERA racer who owns a mobile sushi bus, he said he'd roll out with fish if it was worth it. I know not everyone can afford that (or even want it), but just thought I'd float it out as an option. Obviously the more people down for it, the cheaper it'd be, but no way it'd be anywhere close to the smokin' $10 deal Darren does.

Anyone interested, or is that not feasible race-food? I've had him cater a few parties for me, and the dude rocks, but I know its a bit spendy too (prox$20/$30 head for 10+, cheaper for more. . . )

Just thought I'd throw it out there. . .

sierrahotel · April 4th, 2013, 07:18 PM

Anyone have thoughts on me making pitchers of mojitos next month?

Rexbo · April 4th, 2013, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierrahotel

Anyone have thoughts on me making pitchers of mojitos next month?

Before getting on track or after? Cuz it's gonna be HOT

Trailerboy531 · April 4th, 2013, 07:36 PM

We're gonna need cold something that's for damn sure......

Camelbacks with pina coladas in them!? Better make it a 2 lap race....

Zombiphone · April 4th, 2013, 08:39 PM

I not only support that venture, but I will volunteer to taste test said mojitos.

sierrahotel · April 4th, 2013, 09:36 PM

Good, cause I've never made them before.

View Poll Results: Pot luck options?
Big D brings everything and puts his meat in our moufs, we put money in his G-string	8	80.00%
everybody brings crap, Big D still puts meat in our moufs.	2	20.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

April 3rd, 2013, 10:30 AM	#363
tooblekain ninjette.org sage Name: Matt Location: San Diego, CA Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Triumph Bonneville; 2008 Ninja 250r (trackbike) Posts: 748	At my pace I am feeling the front sliding and pushing...and I know the difference because I have lost the front end and successfully and unsuccessfully (a la crashed) recovered front slides on my D675. The good thing about riding the D675 was that recovering front end slides is a lot harder to recover on the Ninja 250 than it is the D675....so I may need to push it further and recover it right before it's breaking point or adjust settings on my bike. My rear set up seems good (no lost traction even on power out...and when it happens its easily manageable)...my front I may need to fine tune. I know I have done adjustments here and there with my emulators....I know I had the stiffer yellow springs on my emulator and they felt too stiff, I loosened and it got better but still a tad stiff. I switched to the softer blue springs and it was perfect, but then as my pace got faster I encountered the same problems. I tightened them up and they got a little better. I may swap back to the yellow springs since my pace has picked up. The other possibility is I may even try an even heavier fork oil weight since I can't control rebound settings on my fork like I could my D675. I'm currently at 15W and its good. I may jump to 20W and see how that feels. __________________________________________________ CVMA #312SoCal TrackdaysBigHeadz RacingMotion ProFactory EffexLeatt Brace* Racetech Bell Woodcraft CFMVortexHotbodiesSurface Sun SystemsBrakingLiveWire EnergyFreegun Underwear

April 3rd, 2013, 10:30 AM	#364
Dmented CVMA#747 Ⓓⓜⓔⓝⓣⓔⓓ ⓡⓐⓒⓘⓝⓖ Name: Darren Location: Torrance (satyromania) Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R * 09 Yamaha R6 * 08 CBR 1000RR * 04 NSR 50 * 02 KX 250 Posts: A lot.	EH PIC Link to original page on YouTube. __________________________________________________ CVMA#747AFM#747RM1GP#77LeoVinceRaceTechHotbodiesCyclemallBridgestone * MotoradDainesePolyMotoWoodcraftVisit The Dmented Racing Youtube Channel

April 3rd, 2013, 10:33 AM	#365
Nemesis CVMA #74 WSMC #750 Name: Nemesis Location: On the track Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.	Okay, let's think outside of the box for the moment...what other adjustments one can do to avoid front end slides? __________________________________________________

April 3rd, 2013, 10:40 AM	#366
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	oh oh! pick me pick me! less weight on the front end! __________________________________________________

April 3rd, 2013, 11:36 AM	#376
Dmented CVMA#747 Ⓓⓜⓔⓝⓣⓔⓓ ⓡⓐⓒⓘⓝⓖ Name: Darren Location: Torrance (satyromania) Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R * 09 Yamaha R6 * 08 CBR 1000RR * 04 NSR 50 * 02 KX 250 Posts: A lot.	__________________________________________________ CVMA#747AFM#747RM1GP#77LeoVinceRaceTechHotbodiesCyclemallBridgestone * MotoradDainesePolyMotoWoodcraftVisit The Dmented Racing Youtube Channel

April 3rd, 2013, 12:26 PM	#380
sierrahotel CVMA #92 Name: Bryan Location: socal Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): harleys Posts: 242	Nem my front end slide/chatter almost always happens somewhere just before apex, so generally I'm at maintenance throttle. I struggle with carrying enough speed into the apex. I feel very comfortable at full throttle, once I'm though that turn in phase- but mostly cause I'm slow enough that the bike doesn't have the power to get me into trouble for the rest of the turn.

April 3rd, 2013, 03:45 PM	#385
sierrahotel CVMA #92 Name: Bryan Location: socal Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): harleys Posts: 242	Nem I do realize that I need to get you and/or Josh on my bike to feel it. Thanks to Tiff I got a spot in the practice next month. But yeah, I have same forks as you but with different preload and ride height, plus whatever different knob twisting on the rear shock. Alex I do get on the gas sooner when able, but the increasing radius turns are what kill me.

April 3rd, 2013, 09:17 PM	#387
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	whats darren cooking next round __________________________________________________

April 4th, 2013, 11:09 AM	#389
Dmented CVMA#747 Ⓓⓜⓔⓝⓣⓔⓓ ⓡⓐⓒⓘⓝⓖ Name: Darren Location: Torrance (satyromania) Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R * 09 Yamaha R6 * 08 CBR 1000RR * 04 NSR 50 * 02 KX 250 Posts: A lot.	Balsamic and Beer-Braised Short Ribs? Beer-Marinated Tri-Tip?? Chicken with Honey Dijon-Beer Sauce??? Notice a theme?! __________________________________________________ CVMA#747AFM#747RM1GP#77LeoVinceRaceTechHotbodiesCyclemallBridgestone * MotoradDainesePolyMotoWoodcraftVisit The Dmented Racing Youtube Channel

April 4th, 2013, 01:25 PM	#393
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	__________________________________________________

April 4th, 2013, 05:44 PM	#395
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	I have no idea how D does the whole food thing every weekend, I hate packing and prepping and crap, and usually bring a bottle of hard alcohol and some trail mix. For 3-4 days, it gets really old. My buddy is a WERA racer who owns a mobile sushi bus, he said he'd roll out with fish if it was worth it. I know not everyone can afford that (or even want it), but just thought I'd float it out as an option. Obviously the more people down for it, the cheaper it'd be, but no way it'd be anywhere close to the smokin' $10 deal Darren does. Anyone interested, or is that not feasible race-food? I've had him cater a few parties for me, and the dude rocks, but I know its a bit spendy too (prox$20/$30 head for 10+, cheaper for more. . . ) Just thought I'd throw it out there. . .
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

April 4th, 2013, 07:18 PM	#396
sierrahotel CVMA #92 Name: Bryan Location: socal Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): harleys Posts: 242	Anyone have thoughts on me making pitchers of mojitos next month?

April 4th, 2013, 07:36 PM	#398
Trailerboy531 Gear crash test dummy Name: Max Location: South Bay (So. Cal) Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250 race bike, 2014 ZX-636r Posts: A lot.	We're gonna need cold something that's for damn sure...... Camelbacks with pina coladas in them!? Better make it a 2 lap race.... __________________________________________________ CVMA #531

April 4th, 2013, 08:39 PM	#399
Zombiphone CVMA/AFM #72 Name: Tiffani Location: Los Angeles, Ca Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.	I not only support that venture, but I will volunteer to taste test said mojitos.

April 4th, 2013, 09:36 PM	#400
sierrahotel CVMA #92 Name: Bryan Location: socal Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): harleys Posts: 242	Good, cause I've never made them before.

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