Group Buy: EFI (Fuel Injection) Conversion Kit

[n4mwd]

High temp paint will work on the cheap considering that its not really where people can see it. High temp paint comes in different temperature ranges and colors. Make sure you get the 1200F kind for header pipes. You can get it in black, gray and aluminum colors. Aluminum is hardest to find and doesn't really look that good. The only problem I see is that paint doesn't like to stick to chrome in general (unless you don't want it to), so that is something to watch out for.

The photos of Greg's custom pipes looked like stainless to me and not chrome.

Also, I would leave the O2 sensors out until the heat has cured the paint. That is, it quits smoking. I don't know anything much about O2 sensors, but something tells me that smoking paint is hazardous to their health.

Here is a company that plates chrome, but there are probably local ones where you live that do it too. They list $45/foot for motorcycle exhaust pipes. If you do re-chrome, just make sure you get decorative and not hard chrome. Different animals.

[FrugalNinja250]

Check out the local hot rod shops and ask around for someone who does TIG welding.

[n4mwd]

The fish scales are indicative of a TIG welder. TIGs generally give good welds but of course it still depends on the guy behind it. If I had to take it to a shop, I would insist on TIG like Greg says.

But I will be doing it myself with an Oxy-Acetylene torch and it will look more like the one in Greg's photo. I don't see anything wrong with that and nobody but you will see it. Stick or arc welding is not a good way to go.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

1. @Jiggles ............... ..........Newgen
2. @setasai .............. .............Newgen
3. @Daves2JZ ..........................Newgen
*4. @flynjay .............................Pregen
5. @EMSRacer07 ..........Pregen*
6. @lgk ..................................Newgen
7. @justinswidebody ..............Newgen
*8. @n4mwd .............................Pregen*
9. @Ninja_Moose ..................Newgen
10. rwheelz, ..........................Newgen

Guys,
I have to wait for a couple of more days for the refining of some new parts. you will get better parts with your patience. The new due date is New Year's Eve. Sorry, my bad, for those in hurry. But definitely you can hold your money till then. For those that have just paid, I will not touch your money (in PayPal) until I ship.
thanks, Matt

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Guys,
I have to wait for a couple of more days for the refining of some new parts. you will get better parts with your patience. The new due date is New Year's Eve. Sorry, my bad, for those in hurry. But definitely you can hold your money till then. For those that have just paid, I will not touch your money (in PayPal) until I ship.
thanks, Matt

Take your time. I'd rather wait and get higher quality parts.

BTW, how come I'm the only one with two asterisks?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Take your time. I'd rather wait and get higher quality parts.

BTW, how come I'm the only one with two asterisks?

I bolded the pregen people and it looks like he replaced the BB codes with asterisks

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I bolded the pregen people and it looks like he replaced the BB codes with asterisks

And here I thought I was going to get two for the price of one.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Guys,
I have to wait for a couple of more days for the refining of some new parts. you will get better parts with your patience. The new due date is New Year's Eve. Sorry, my bad, for those in hurry. But definitely you can hold your money till then. For those that have just paid, I will not touch your money (in PayPal) until I ship.
thanks, Matt

No worries i rather have quality too. Take ur time thanks for the update

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Guys,
I have to wait for a couple of more days for the refining of some new parts. you will get better parts with your patience. The new due date is New Year's Eve. Sorry, my bad, for those in hurry. But definitely you can hold your money till then. For those that have just paid, I will not touch your money (in PayPal) until I ship.
thanks, Matt

+1 For quality parts. Thanks for keeping us informed.

[Daves2JZ]

I'm inagood mood to night so I'm going to offer to those that will pay for shipping to and from me to weld up your bungs for free ( that is if you don't mined the down time) but unfortunately this offer is only for the new Jen bikes since I don't have a pre gen to do a mockup on

Some examples of my tig work

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

High temp paint will work on the cheap considering that its not really where people can see it. High temp paint comes in different temperature ranges and colors. Make sure you get the 1200F kind for header pipes. You can get it in black, gray and aluminum colors. Aluminum is hardest to find and doesn't really look that good. The only problem I see is that paint doesn't like to stick to chrome in general (unless you don't want it to), so that is something to watch out for.

The photos of Greg's custom pipes looked like stainless to me and not chrome.

Also, I would leave the O2 sensors out until the heat has cured the paint. That is, it quits smoking. I don't know anything much about O2 sensors, but something tells me that smoking paint is hazardous to their health.

Here is a company that plates chrome, but there are probably local ones where you live that do it too. They list $45/foot for motorcycle exhaust pipes. If you do re-chrome, just make sure you get decorative and not hard chrome. Different animals.

I think you can get paint to stick to a chromed surface if you rough it up enough. So I plan on sanding the surface with 200 grit before I go to get it welded. That way all I have to do is light sand, clean, mask and paint. Time will tell if it works.

[Fly'in Ninja]

Due to lack of funds, I'm out.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

I think you can get paint to stick to a chromed surface if you rough it up enough. So I plan on sanding the surface with 200 grit before I go to get it welded. That way all I have to do is light sand, clean, mask and paint. Time will tell if it works.

I'll probably do that, but I'm still exploring methods of plating it. Supposedly, soaking in muriatic acid will remove the existing chrome, but I haven't tried it. I am told that you can't chrome plate over chrome, so the old chrome has to be removed if you re-chrome. Also, nickel plating is probably good enough for an exhaust header, but I'm not sure if it will take the heat.

[choneofakind]

Couldn't you just get them powder-coated?

[setasai]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Couldn't you just get them powder-coated?

Powder coating is basically plastic. It would melt if you used it for headers.

[Daves2JZ]

Ceramic coating would be a better idea then powder.

[n4mwd]

In another thread we explored powder coating and I do remember that they do have special thermosetting powders that don't melt at high temps. Normal ones are thermoplastic and re-melt at 400F. The thermosetting ones just get harder. Its an option, but only if you can find someone with the right kind of powder.

The chemicals used for chrome plating are kindof pricey. But nickel is very reasonable. Nickel can be polished to look almost as bright as chrome. Its just not that resistant to wear. For an exhaust header, there isn't a lot of wear. I'm going to try it this way and if it doesn't work, use gray high temp paint.

[randomwalk101]

Okay guys. I finished my Xmas gift list and have some left over.

Add me back to the list to make 10 people for that 25% off. So everyone price is $480 +$30 = $510 total??

Mine bike is new generation.

Question for Matt (ecotrons):

1) kit now is completely plug & play? All wiring has appropriate stock connector to just plug in and no splicing?
2) the new CDI replacement will work just like stock? ie. if bike running and in gear, kick stand down will kill engine?

[setasai]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Okay guys. I finished my Xmas gift list and have some left over.

Add me back to the list to make 10 people for that 25% off. So everyone price is $480 +$30 = $510 total??

Mine bike is new generation.

Question for Matt (ecotrons):

1) kit now is completely plug & play? All wiring has appropriate stock connector to just plug in and no splicing?
2) the new CDI replacement will work just like stock? ie. if bike running and in gear, kick stand down will kill engine?

@Jiggles @ecotrons Confirm email receipt.

$450 + $30 shipping = $480 total @ 25% off.

1) yup plug and play. As easy as it can get minus the welding of O2 bungs.
2) ... not sure... this one is for Matt.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Daves2JZ

Ceramic coating would be a better idea then powder.

This guy is right. Even high temp powders are not suggested for something that gets as hot as a header.

[n4mwd]

Never heard of it myself, but a quick scan shows that they have a chrome ceramic powder "Chromex" that looks similar to real chrome. It cures at 500F.

The only thing I would be concerned about is warpage during curing. It would probably be only a small amount, but exactly what happens to ceramic if you have to bend the part a little to get it in because of warpage?

Anybody know anything about Chromex? Does it actually buff to a mirror shine or does it look more like that spray aluminum paint?

[randomwalk101]

Flynjay
Do you know anyone who welds well in Houston for that o2 sensors?
What part of town are u in?

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Flynjay
Do you know anyone who welds well in Houston for that o2 sensors?
What part of town are u in?

I got a reference from a friend of mine. If it works out, I will let you know.

As of right now, I can't recommend anyone since I haven't talked to the guy. Once I get the kit, first thing I will be doing is the exhaust. Mock up and then get the sensor bungs welded.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Question for Matt (ecotrons):

2) the new CDI replacement will work just like stock? ie. if bike running and in gear, kick stand down will kill engine?

The kick-stand signal has not been used by the ECU. Is it safty critical? I think we can find a way to route this signal to ECU and kill the engine. It should not be a big deal. But now it is not done. Is it simply a "short to ground" signal? meaning, normally 12V, when it is down, it is 0V?
thanks, Matt

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

The kick-stand signal has not been used by the ECU. Is it safty critical? I think we can find a way to route this signal to ECU and kill the engine. It should not be a big deal. But now it is not done. Is it simply a "short to ground" signal? meaning, normally 12V, when it is down, it is 0V?
thanks, Matt

I actually have no idea how it works but it's a nice safety feature. I actually don't have it as I am running aftermarket CDI (sportisi BRT).

It only kills the engine if kickstand is down & in gear.

[randomwalk101]

Oh btw, if there are new features come out in the ecu/CDI, can we reprogram it (upload the firmware ourselves to take advantage of it or upgrade is not possible?

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by flynjay

I got a reference from a friend of mine. If it works out, I will let you know.

As of right now, I can't recommend anyone since I haven't talked to the guy. Once I get the kit, first thing I will be doing is the exhaust. Mock up and then get the sensor bungs welded.

Looking at the header, each tube is awfully small, we don't want to block too much exhaust flow so may be only have the tip of the sensor in the exhaust stream?

[Ninja_Moose]

Paid and question for Matt (ecotrons):

Since forbitel's bracket is included, what cables do we need if we position the throttle bodies with the injectors on top?

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Looking at the header, each tube is awfully small, we don't want to block too much exhaust flow so may be only have the tip of the sensor in the exhaust stream?

Yes. The point is to have just the tip of the sensor in the exhaust stream. I plan on waiting to see what bungs are included in the kit. If they are too short, I will get longer ones.

[n4mwd]

The kick stand situation is interesting. I would also like to know if the new ECU cuts out at 13000 RPM at redline like the OEM ECU. I'm nearly always up in that range and need something to keep me from blowing an engine.

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Yes. The point is to have just the tip of the sensor in the exhaust stream. I plan on waiting to see what bungs are included in the kit. If they are too short, I will get longer ones.

I imagine you can use appropriate sized washer to shim it if short.
What side of town are you in?

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

I imagine you can use appropriate sized washer to shim it if short.
What side of town are you in?

I don't think the washer will work. The o2 sensor should have a crush washer to seal the opening. Don't want exhaust gasses escaping.

I'm down in League City. The reference that I got is down here too.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The kick stand situation is interesting. I would also like to know if the new ECU cuts out at 13000 RPM at redline like the OEM ECU. I'm nearly always up in that range and need something to keep me from blowing an engine.

older bikes have a red line at 14,000 rpm, with a rev limiter at 15,000 (or is it 14,500? I've read that the cdi allows the bike to rev to 15,000, but when I check my tach, it bounces when it gets to 14.5k) [citation needed]. The bike will be just fine to go above 13,000 rpm. Mine goes above 13,000 rpm and it's still running just fine. The reason they changed the rev limiter is something about oil delivery at constant high rpm's [another citation needed]

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

older bikes have a red line at 14,000 rpm, with a rev limiter at 15,000 (or is it 14,500? I've read that the cdi allows the bike to rev to 15,000, but when I check my tach, it bounces when it gets to 14.5k) [citation needed]. The bike will be just fine to go above 13,000 rpm. Mine goes above 13,000 rpm and it's still running just fine. The reason they changed the rev limiter is something about oil delivery at constant high rpm's [another citation needed]

The problem I would have is that I would keep going over and over until something breaks. I'm bad that way. That's why I need some kind of rev limiter to keep me in line. Mine seems to bounce at 12K. As long as the new ECU bounces somewhere between 12K and 15K, I'll be happy.

If what you say is true about oil delivery, then using full synthetic oil should help, but its not going to work miracles.

[choneofakind]

FWIW, I found a citation. the rev limiter on older pre-gens is 15,000 rpm. So, your valves and such will be just fine; don't worry about blowing your engine


http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...3&postcount=21

[randomwalk101]

I'm just curious, who has paid/not paid?

[n4mwd]

Thanks for that reference.

Originally Posted by Racer x

The important thing about the wiring is.You must get a wiring harness from the same year as the CDI . The diagrams do not show the pin positions .and they are all different.

I did not know there was any difference in the pregen wiring harnesses. A little research and I found that pregens before 1992 used different wiring harnesses than pregens made after 1992.

This also implies that wiring harnesses made for pregens in other parts of the world may also be different from the US > 92 pregens.

So I guess that can be added to my list of questions regarding the ecotrons kit.

[Racer x]

What I found was 86-87 are twin pick up.88-94 that I used to convert to a 08 use one pattern. Then 95-07 was different. But the difference is at the ICU plugs. The othere side are the same except 86-87.But most of the wire colors are the same from 88 through 08. The diagrams don't show the pin out. But I can post up photos if you all need them.

[n4mwd]

What I did was look up the part number for the wiring harness for the pregen. That number is 26030-1351 and shows that it was used on all pregens 92 and up. But then they also show a harness 26001-1929 that is used for 88-95 models. Looks like everyone with 96 and up models got the 26030-1351 harness.

But when I looked up the igniter, it seems that they changed it a lot over the years. The 21119-1415 igniter is used 92-05 but they also show a 21119-1443 igniter used for the same years. Maybe the difference is the California mods? For 06 and up, they show 21119-0010 and 21119-0012.

The bottom line is that it looks like there are some unexpected variances in the wiring harnesses on the pregens which means that some of us may have to modify the ecotrons wiring harness to make it work right.

[randomwalk101]

Matt
Has everyone paid yet?